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Asylum seekers on railway line between Effingham Junction and Cobham [23/3]

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infobleep

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Currently on the 8.07 from Guildford. After leaving Effingham Junction the driver saw three people beside the railway line so stopped the train and informed the signalman. Power to the line now switched off.

Turns out they are asylum seekers likely to have come from a neat by lorry park on the M25. The guard said they don't speak a word of English but know the word asylum.

Now waiting for the police to arrive as the driver didn't want to try and get them onto the train without back up. Fair enough. Would you want to do that in his and the guards shoes?

Of course there is no easy road access to here. There is a farm they could access but would still have to climb up over a fence and up a bank.

Police not near by either but they can't be everywhere.

Unfortunately as it's a 455, I can't stick my head or camera out the side of the window to see what is happening. No advantage of older rolling stock.

We should have been at Cobham and Stoke D'Abernon at 8.27. Now 9.06.

People have been removed from the tracks so power will shortly be restored. Only be just over 30 minutes late. They can't cancel any stops really as this train runs fast from Surbiton as it is and I can't see them cancelling stops before Surbiton, as the next train, the 8.36 was diverted via Epsom as a result of this.
 
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infobleep

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When you put 25/3, is that the date as it's currently 23/3.
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm ahead of myself date wise. It is indeed the 23rd.

I must say the guard and driver were really good throughout the incident in keeping us informed.

There were also two track maintenance staff walking along the side of the down line heading north. One had a flag and the other a large spanner. Didn't realise track inspections like this still took place. I thought they used specialist rolling stock to check the state of the lines.

Never realised before just how close the lorry park is to the side of the line.
 

talltim

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Specialist rolling stock probably can't tighten the nuts/bolts on fishplates.
 

Tomnick

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We regularly have the inspection gang out on foot inspecting the whole section - most of it is done fortnightly, but I understand that that frequency varies according to a few different factors. The eventual aim, I'm sure, is for the various recording trains to make this type of work obsolete, but - for now - most of their work seems to be in addition to the track walkers' efforts rather than trying to replace them.
 

infobleep

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Especially at 125mph [emoji38]
You'll be hard pushed to do 125 miles an hour around Effingham Junction!

I thought, in correctly, that all track work such as this was now done during line possessions but not so.
 

infobleep

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The problem here, with current matters in mind, is that some terrorist organization could well use non-English speakers to try to cause a railway accident.
Quiet, which is rightly one of the reasons why the driver no doubt called for the BTP rather than deal with them between himself and the guard.

Besides which carriage do they put them in? It's 455. Can you lock certain carriages? Even if you can, you'd have to move the passengers. It wasn't standing packed yet but it still takes time for passengers to move. By the time the train leaves Hinchley Wood it's usually standing room only.

As much as it delayed me, it was the right course of action in my opinion.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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One of the issues here is the differing attitudes to safety/trespass between the UK and probably most other countries both in Europe and beyond. Most people of around my age(33) will remember being shown the video about 'Robbie' who loved football and ended up losing his feet after taking a shortcut across a railway line- quite a harrowing tale for a 6-8-year-old. Whether other European countries have a similar education programme, I don't know, but the levels of graffiti seen on the lineside in France and Germany would suggest that their programmes are less effective. Places like the Democratic Republic of Congo are even less likely to have a comprehensive anti-tresspass education programme.

I remember a few years ago being at Honley station (to take a few pics of the K-Line depot) when a Romanian man with a boy of about 11 entered the station. He asked me in broken English when the next train to Sheffield was due, and I told him it would be 50 minutes as I'd just got off the previous one. He thanked me and proceeded to start walking down the ramp at the Sheffield end, so I shouted back and said there's a train due coming that way in the next 10 minutes or so. The man shrugged and they continued walking towards Brockholes. I of course called BTP and informed them of people on the line in the area, including a minor. When the Huddersfield train arrived (a few minutes late) I asked the guard if he'd seen anything, he said they'd had a message from control to be aware, had seen the pair and slowed to a stop, but the trespassers had run into the surrounding undergrowth.
 
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tsr

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Quiet, which is rightly one of the reasons why the driver no doubt called for the BTP rather than deal with them between himself and the guard.

Besides which carriage do they put them in? It's 455. Can you lock certain carriages? Even if you can, you'd have to move the passengers. It wasn't standing packed yet but it still takes time for passengers to move. By the time the train leaves Hinchley Wood it's usually standing room only.

As much as it delayed me, it was the right course of action in my opinion.

You can. But you still have to get them onboard, and that's not brilliant if you're not used to climbing in and out of trains (especially with the slippery grab rails on 455 cabs on a cold morning). Besides, of course, it is indeed much harder for the trespassers to then be found in situ and then removed to the appropriate place, whether or not they pose a specific security risk.
 

neilmc

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In the last couple of weeks I've watched both "The Train" and "Von Ryan's Express" and both films seem to show how easy it is for a non-railwayman to cause a derailment, though there always seems to be a convenient lineside hut full of tools in such films.
 

Bishopstone

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I think, if I'd travelled in/under an HGV across Europe, Cobham is the approximate area I'd choose to alight. Maybe Weybridge, but Surbiton has gone downhill.
 

Tim R-T-C

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One of the issues here is the differing attitudes to safety/trespass between the UK and probably most other countries both in Europe and beyond. .

Of course in many countries walking by the tracks is not considered trespass and safety is reliant on common sense.
 

mirodo

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I imagine there was a lot of Effingham and a good deal of Blindingham...

© R Perrin
 

sarahj

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I think, if I'd travelled in/under an HGV across Europe, Cobham is the approximate area I'd choose to alight. Maybe Weybridge, but Surbiton has gone downhill.

Its the new service station on the M25, not a lorry park as such.
 

infobleep

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Its the new service station on the M25, not a lorry park as such.
Thanks for the correction. Didn't know that. Can't say I've really noticed it before.

No asylum seekers on the line this morning and as a rare treat, the 7.36 got into Surbiton on time.

Hopefully the people caught will be treated justly and if they are genuine refugees they will be able to stay and if not then back to where they came from I guess.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
News reports. Now 17 people arrested. It seems 14 were captured shortly after 6am but these three made it to the railway tracks.


Suspected asylum seekers arrested at Cobham Services after 'jumping out of lorry'

24 March 2015 08:37 AMPaul*Harper

A number of people believed to be from Sudan and Eritrea were found at the motorway service station and on a nearby railway line on Monday morning

Seventeen suspected asylum seekers who "jumped out of a lorry" at*Cobham*Services on the M25 have been detained.

The group, believed to be from Sudan and Eritrea, were arrested on suspicion of entering the country illegally on Monday morning (March 23).

It was thought to be linked to*an incident on Monday when train services were disrupted for 45 minutes*between Cobham and Effingham by three people on the railway line.

It is understood*Surrey Police*arrested 14 suspected immigrants at the service station off the*M25, while the people on the track were held by British Transport Police on suspicion of illegal entry.

They were all handed into the custody of UK Visas and Immigration.

A spokesman said: “We work closely with the police to tackle illegal immigration and continue to strengthen the security of our border to stop those who have no right to enter the UK.

"If people have a genuine need of protection, they should claim asylum in the first safe country they reach.

"If they are just seeking to evade immigration control, they need to know that they are risking their lives and that they will get caught.

"The new Immigration Act makes it harder for people to live in the UK illegally.

"It makes it harder for illegal immigrants to abuse our benefits and public services, and makes it easier for us to remove them by reducing the number of appeals.”

A Surrey Police spokesman said: "We were called to Cobham Services on the M25 at around 6am following reports that a number of people had jumped out of the back of a lorry.

"Fourteen people have been detained on suspicion of entering the country illegally and have been taken into custody.

"The matter will be passed over to UK Visas and Immigration."

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/suspected-asylum-seekers-arrested-cobham-8906185

Cobham train services disrupted by suspected illegal immigrants on*railway line

23 March 2015 10:04 AMPaul*Harper

Monday morning services between Cobham and Effinhgam were delayed as a result of the incident which took around 45 minutes to resolve

Trespassers on a railway line near*Cobhamhave been detained after bringing trains to a halt for around 45 minutes during the Monday morning commute.

The trespass incident stopped services between Effingham Junction and Cobham from around 8.30am. Network Rail had to switch the electric power supply off before police detained the men.

It is believed the men were asylum seekers, with a passenger hearing them claim to be from Sudan.

A spokesperson for British Transport Police said: “BTP officers attended Cobham and Stoke d'Abernon station on Monday (March 23) following reports of people on the tracks.

“The incident was reported to police shortly after 8.30am.

“BTP officers attended the scene and arrested three men on suspicion of illegal entry.”

A South West Trains-Network Rail Alliance spokesperson said: "We worked closely with the BTP who apprehended the people as quickly as possible.

"Services started running again at about 9.15am with residual delays whilst services recover. We would like to apologise to customers for any inconvenience caused.”

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/cobham-train-services-disrupted-suspected-8898930
 

Deepgreen

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I imagine there was a lot of Effingham and a good deal of Blindingham...

© R Perrin

"Morning Miss Jones, 11 minutes late; asylum-seekers at Effingham" - to mis-quote RIP.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks for the correction. Didn't know that. Can't say I've really noticed it before.

No asylum seekers on the line this morning and as a rare treat, the 7.36 got into Surbiton on time.

Hopefully the people caught will be treated justly and if they are genuine refugees they will be able to stay and if not then back to where they came from I guess.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
News reports. Now 17 people arrested. It seems 14 were captured shortly after 6am but these three made it to the railway tracks.




http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/suspected-asylum-seekers-arrested-cobham-8906185



http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/cobham-train-services-disrupted-suspected-8898930

Presumably, if from the countries mentioned, they would have no clue that the third rail was live and could very easily have simply stepped onto it as they might a running rail. Could have been nasty.
 

ralphchadkirk

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The problem here, with current matters in mind, is that some terrorist organization could well use non-English speakers to try to cause a railway accident.

Whilst a degree of caution is a good thing, if we assume that every non-English speaker being somewhere they shouldn't is a terrorist the country will quickly grind to a halt!
 

Bedpan

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"Morning Miss Jones, 11 minutes late; asylum-seekers at Effingham" - to mis-quote RIP.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Presumably, if from the countries mentioned, they would have no clue that the third rail was live and could very easily have simply stepped onto it as they might a running rail. Could have been nasty.

I seem to remember that somebody, possibly from South America, was electrocuted by touching the live rail with his head at a station in Kent - seems that where he came from it was common practice to put your ear to the line to see if a train was approaching - ie to listen for the sound of the wheels being transmitted along the rail.

I also heard of somebody being electrocuted by having a pee and the water touching the live rail although I don't know if that one is actually true.
 

tsr

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I seem to remember that somebody, possibly from South America, was electrocuted by touching the live rail with his head at a station in Kent - seems that where he came from it was common practice to put your ear to the line to see if a train was approaching - ie to listen for the sound of the wheels being transmitted along the rail.

I also heard of somebody being electrocuted by having a pee and the water touching the live rail although I don't know if that one is actually true.

On the former, it was at Godstone in Surrey. You are right about what happened. I pity the poor CCTV operator who saw it happen and had to implement the emergency procedures. IIRC there is a thread mentioning the incident somewhere on here.

On the latter, according to a couple of PTS trainers I know, apparently not. Such is hearsay, though.
 

MCR247

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There was definitely a picture of a (drunk) guy peeing on the line at a 3rd rail station a few years back but I don't think this one got electrocuted
 

341o2

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Foreign railways are not always fenced and locals use them freely, eg in India railways were fenced under British rule, now the country is independent fences are not maintained

as has already been said, such people have probably no conception of the dangers of the third rail or frequency on some lines
 

cool110

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I remember mythbusters covering peeing on the 3rd rail and the dummy only got electrocuted when the rail was raised up to almost crotch height.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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They'll be back.

Why does what you say above remind me of catch-phrase made famous in "The Terminator" films...:D
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Foreign railways are not always fenced and locals use them freely, eg in India railways were fenced under British rule, now the country is independent fences are not maintained. As has already been said, such people have probably no conception of the dangers of the third rail or frequency on some lines

Whilst I accept what you say above about this, the area where these people are said to come from is Sudan and Eritrea. Does anyone have knowledge of the railway systems in those two countries?
 

PaxVobiscum

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Regarding lineside fencing:

Whilst I accept what you say above about this, the area where these people are said to come from is Sudan and Eritrea. Does anyone have knowledge of the railway systems in those two countries?

Err - it's rare? :D

or even worse

Sudan death?
 
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DownSouth

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I remember mythbusters covering peeing on the 3rd rail and the dummy only got electrocuted when the rail was raised up to almost crotch height.
Correct.

Urine only stays as a steady stream for a maximum of about six centimetres before the spiral motion forces the stream to disintegrate into droplets.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Correct. Urine only stays as a steady stream for a maximum of about six centimetres before the spiral motion forces the stream to disintegrate into droplets.

I think the problem is that would occur when urination into a river system has had the unfortunate side-effect of a small candiru fish with spines that is said to swim up the urine stream into the urethra.

However, I am sure that this is a myth..:D
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Whilst a degree of caution is a good thing, if we assume that every non-English speaker being somewhere they shouldn't is a terrorist the country will quickly grind to a halt!

Perhaps my posting vision had been clouded by the news that a number of so-called "British Sudanese" medical staff had set off to join ISIL in very recent times. Sudan and Eritrea are two countries with a strong strict adherence by their Muslim followers to the very conservative Wahaabist doctrines.

However, being a non-English speaker can be a difficult proposition when these people have to be interviewed, when arriving even with full visa documents and travelling quite correctly officially. It is those non-English speakers who choose to enter this country by illegal means that make such matters so very much worse when they are caught as appears to be in the case of this particular incident.
 
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