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Great Western Super Express Trains (aka IEP) trains to not have a hot buffet?

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Flamingo

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Buffet cars going as well. Trolley only. That may mean an end to hot food, cold beers and cappuccino's...
 
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NSEFAN

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Flamingo said:
Buffet cars going as well. Trolley only. That will mean anend to hot food, cold beers and cappuccino's...
But Flamingo, with the buffet car gone you'll finally have somewhere to put those Reading commuters who stand in the 1st class vestibules with standard tickets! :D
 

Captain Chaos

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A full kitchen is provided in the first class driving vehicle.

So it will have staff continuously walking backwards and forwards through first class? I bet our first class passengers will LOVE that for ambience and comfort...

How long before they all complain and the service gets cut back to first class only I wonder? The at seat service may work, but it will need a lot of work to it and peak services will be a challenge. It's not been thought out well at all. Buffets not only served as a selling point but as a central serving point. Having it at the back of a packed train is going to be even more useless than they claim it is now.

Where are these survey results anyway from this trial? I'm yet to find a single person who knows anything about it...
 

ainsworth74

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And a trolley for Standard Class. Kitchen is for First Class only, from what is being said...

Seems so. I still have some slight hope that common sense will break out and the GWML SETs will end up with buffets like the ECML ones are now due to get.
 

Carlisle

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So it will have staff continuously walking backwards and forwards through first class? I bet our first class passengers will LOVE that for ambience and comfort...

How long before they all complain and the service gets cut back to first class only I wonder? The at seat service may work, but it will need a lot of work
.

I think they tried hot meals at seat service in standard class on the Virgin pendilinos for a very short while before ditching the idea
 
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Captain Chaos

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Seems so. I still have some slight hope that common sense will break out and the GWML SETs will end up with buffets like the ECML ones are now due to get.

We can live in hope. I believe they are even retaining their guards too? Despite getting the same trains and signalling system as us? Seems odd to me. Why have it on one and not the other?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not what I've heard...

I think it's in a letter being sent out?
 

ainsworth74

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Bletchleyite

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Not what I've heard...

I read (somewhere, possibly fGW's own publicity) that they planned to have microwaves in cupboards in a couple of the Standard coaches to allow the provision of hot food. But with the modern tendency towards quality sandwiches, is there all *that* much of a need for microwaved gristleburgers?

All that said, I wish they'd gone for a DB Bistrowagen-style service for all comers. People would actively choose to stand in such accommodation rather than miserably in the vestibules.
 

Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
So it will have staff continuously walking backwards and forwards through first class? I bet our first class passengers will LOVE that for ambience and comfort...

How long before they all complain and the service gets cut back to first class only I wonder? The at seat service may work, but it will need a lot of work to it and peak services will be a challenge. It's not been thought out well at all. Buffets not only served as a selling point but as a central serving point. Having it at the back of a packed train is going to be even more useless than they claim it is now.

Where are these survey results anyway from this trial? I'm yet to find a single person who knows anything about it...

They were never done if you ask me! Agree with all you say. Il be honest and put my money on a bunch of 5 year olds being able to do better
 

Bletchleyite

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But all the (carefully worded) surveys show that people want serving as their seat rather than go to the buffet coach!
I mean it's much better to have a luke warm cup of Instant coffee and a cold sandwich served at your seat than walk to the buffet and get a hot 'posh' coffee and some decent hot food isn't it! :rolleyes:

They could consider something like what the Swiss trolleys use, which is a capsule coffee maker (like Nespresso, but not actually Nespresso) on the trolley. That said I always preferred DB filter coffee from the flask. Good quality filter coffee is always better than coffee out of a bean to cup machine that doesn't get cleaned properly and probably uses UHT "milk".
 

Tetchytyke

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They were never done if you ask me! Agree with all you say

Course they were done.

The survey question will be this:
"Do you prefer being served at your seat by a customer service host, or would you prefer to tramp through six carriages to a buffet counter?"
 

Bedpan

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But all the (carefully worded) surveys show that people want serving as their seat rather than go to the buffet coach!
I mean it's much better to have a luke warm cup of Instant coffee and a cold sandwich served at your seat than walk to the buffet and get a hot 'posh' coffee and some decent hot food isn't it! :rolleyes:

I agree, but not only that, I always think that the best part of any meal is the anticipation of what is to come, and having to wait for the trolley to come round can only heighten that anticipation. Think how much more satisfying that coffee will be when you finally drink in, if you've been waiting for it for a long time. And think of the money you will have saved if the trolley doesn't come round at all. <D
 

Bletchleyite

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One thing that's changed these days is the amount of tech being carried. If I've got a couple of laptops and a tablet on me, I would rather a trolley and may well not bother at all if there isn't one, as I won't be leaving them unattended (and indeed would get in trouble if my work laptop was nicked in such circumstances).
 

HSTEd

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This was inevitable with the move to 5-car sets.
They put a premium on space.

Otherwise you could have ten cars with proper buffets, not two half sets
 

iantherev

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One thing that's changed these days is the amount of tech being carried. If I've got a couple of laptops and a tablet on me, I would rather a trolley and may well not bother at all if there isn't one, as I won't be leaving them unattended (and indeed would get in trouble if my work laptop was nicked in such circumstances).

Agreed for different reasons. When I'm out for the day I tend to travel light and it's either a choice of risking having your seat taken while you're away at the buffet or risking leaving the camera bag stolen because you've left it there to mark your place.
 

Sleepy

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Will this lead to East Midland Trains style of trolley - no staff for it half the time !!!
 

D1009

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A depressing, if predicatble confirmation of what we all feered. I knew that once XC Started running ABD>PNZ with a pathetic Trolley that apparently everyone loves (rubbish) the rest would follow
Actually officially hot bacon rolls are available in standard class on XC. Most unusually the service was advertised this morning on 1V42 after Bristol TM. I believe what is supposed to happen is that the Retail Service Manager takes orders as he or she goes through the train with the trolley. On completion, the bacon rolls are prepared using the on-board microwave, then delivered to the appropriate seats. I think it's fairly obvious what the problems are with this, and why it's so seldom advertised.
 

bnm

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Letter sent to FGW staff:

2 April 2015

Dear colleague,

Over recent months there has been a great deal of speculation about the potential impact that the introduction of Super Express Trains (SETS) may have on colleagues currently working on board High Speed Trains.

As part of a confidentiality agreement with the Department for Transport during the franchise bidding process, we were unable to talk in detail about our plans. This has unfortunately meant that we have not been able to give colleagues reassurance about their future until now.

As you know, the introduction of SETS offers us a once in a lifetime opportunity to transform the service we give our customers. Of course, we need to operate the railway safely, but to be a real success we must provide frequent, fast and punctual services with the highest levels of customer service. We will need to make some real changes to make this happen, but it will take all of us to deliver our vision for the service we must give our customers.

For colleagues currently working on HSTs, there are two key changes proposed in our plans. The ability of the SET’s centralised systems to significantly reduce the safety risks posed by slam-door stock, alongside the shorter dwell times that provide key journey time improvements for customers, means we believe that the driver should be in sole charge of doors on these trains.

We will also be offering hot and cold food and drink to standard class customers at their seats – moving from the current buffet provision to a trolley. This follows in-service trials last year, which showed the vast majority of our customers felt a standard class trolley improved their journey with us. In the same trial, more than half of those who bought from the trolley said they wouldn’t have left their seat to buy something from the buffet.

I recognise these will be real changes for some colleagues, and I am determined to dispel any concerns about job security from the very beginning.

• We need more, not fewer, on board staff to make our plans work. We will be recruiting at least 100 more customer-facing staff on high speed trains, and there will be no compulsory redundancies as a result.

• Current Train Managers and Customer Hosts will retain their current terms and conditions when SETS are introduced.

• There will be more staff on more trains than today, and we will diagram a Train Manager to every SET in passenger service – including those currently worked by Turbo trains in DOO mode which convert to SET operation.

• We will provide food and drink served by a member of staff on board every high speed SET passenger service with a journey time of more than an hour.

• For those who simply don’t want to work on an SET, we will provide appropriate development opportunities to help colleagues apply for other roles if they wish.

These commitments are conditional on the following arrangements for operating SET:

• The Driver will be solely responsible for the operation of the doors on SET trains.

• Although not the normal method of operation, SET services could be operated with the Driver as the only member of staff on board when a Train Manager is not immediately available.

Additionally, if there is no industrial action taken as a result of SET introduction then we will be able to offer a voluntary redundancy package to Train Managers who wish to leave the business as a result of the introduction of the new trains and new methods of working. This would apply even if there are vacancies available that they could apply for.

Our proposals will create many new jobs across our business, and protect the jobs and reward packages of the vast majority of our staff. These are significant changes, but it is a change that is motivated by a desire to improve the safety and performance of our network and the service to our customers.

I know there will be many questions, but if you need to know more please speak to your line manager, or come along to one of the senior manager and director drop in sessions over the coming weeks and we will be happy to talk to you.

Yours sincerely

Ben Rule
Operations Director

https://exiledmackem.wordpress.com/...yourselves-for-a-massive-battle-to-save-jobs/
 

ainsworth74

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If anyone wishes to discuss the DOO elements of this letter please do so on this thread.
 

Class 170101

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Wasn't the trolley abandoned on HSTs because it couldn't get through the train and also that the trolley's design when combined with HSTs actually caused incidents and accidents to staff?

Can't see it being any different with IEP / SET.
 

ainsworth74

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Wasn't the trolley abandoned on HSTs because it couldn't get through the train and also that the trolley's design when combined with HSTs actually caused incidents and accidents to staff?

Then how does it work on East Coast and Cross Country? Both run busy services and both have trolleys...
 

AngusH

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Wasn't the trolley abandoned on HSTs because it couldn't get through the train and also that the trolley's design when combined with HSTs actually caused incidents and accidents to staff?

Can't see it being any different with IEP / SET.

I fear you may be right, but I do hope that if the vehicle spec calls for a trolley, then some effort will have been put into designing the carriage so that a trolley can be safely used.

I suppose trolleys weren't a thing when the HST/mk3 were being designed.

Do East Coast HST services have a trolley? Or is it just the mk4?
I know some services have them because I've bought tea from them, but I can't remember if it was a HST or a mk4
 
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