AFAIK, an SO had 2+1 seating, a TSO 2+2 (but remember that once upon a time there were three classes - 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Eventually 2nd was abolished, and 3rd was renamed as 2nd, then renamed again as Standard).
And very nice they were IIRC (vague recollections of them on cross country mid 70s).
Wikipedia says the Boat 2nds were different, with the central doors opening into a seating bay, so slightly more legroom. There were early mk2 SOs as well.
And very nice they were IIRC (vague recollections of them on cross country mid 70s).
Wikipedia says the Boat 2nds were different, with the central doors opening into a seating bay, so slightly more legroom. There were early mk2 SOs as well.
I used to think the SOs that occasionally turned up were Firsts that had been permanently declassified long enough ago that they'd been re-upholstered in second class type moquette. I didn't find either them or the genuine temporarily-declassified Firsts particularly comfortable, but I think that was mainly down to me being too small for the seats at the time
But I'm fairly certain that no Mk 1s were built for the few services that still had 3 classes*. They were 1st class or 3rd class, and 3rd class was simply renamed 2nd class.
TSO was an LNER designation.
*Cathcart Circle, North London? Will have to check The LMS Coach.
I would disagree. There's a picture of one at Folkestone East in the book "Ashford to Dover" in Middleton Press' Southern Mainline series.
How did they make third class different from second class?You can always tell the difference between a "real" SO and a downgraded FO - SOs have 8 seating bays, just like the much more common TSOs but with 48 seats instead of 64, FOs have 7 bays and 42 seats.
It is right that the SOs were built to run in dining sets. Quite often there might be an FO one side of a full kitchen car or RKB, and an SO the other side.
There were also the Boat Train coaches built in the days when these still had three classes to match with those on the other side of the Channel, but only 15 of these were built as against nearly 200 of the ordinary SOs.
The Boat Train coaches, S3500-S3514, had eight bays of 2+1 seating, but the centre door opened into one of the bays, hence the slightly more available leg room.You can always tell the difference between a "real" SO and a downgraded FO - SOs have 8 seating bays, just like the much more common TSOs but with 48 seats instead of 64, FOs have 7 bays and 42 seats.
It is right that the SOs were built to run in dining sets. Quite often there might be an FO one side of a full kitchen car or RKB, and an SO the other side.
There were also the Boat Train coaches built in the days when these still had three classes to match with those on the other side of the Channel, but only 15 of these were built as against nearly 200 of the ordinary SOs.