Stratford International

[nuneatonmark]

Do any trains ever call at platforms 1 and 4 anymore or are there any plans to do so? They look very rusty! Seems like a bit of waste if they will never be used again.

 

[jopsuk]

Trains have only called at 1 & 4 during the Olympics (when the platforms were raised using wooden extensions). No international passenger services have yet used them- Eurostar show no sign of wanting to use the facility. I think DB have talked about serving Stratford if they finally get to run services.

 

[TheNewNo2]

There doesn't seem that much point in doing so - it's hard enough to imagine international passengers wanting to use Ebbsfleet, let alone Stratford. While the Javelins are a useful service which I have on occasion used from St Pancras to Stratford, stopping other STP trains at Stratford seems a waste of electricity.

 

[TheGrew]

I guess in Stratford's defense that it would probably be quicker for people to access the Docklands area more quickly than from St Pancras.

 

[Clip]

I guess in Stratford's defense that it would probably be quicker for people to access the Docklands area more quickly than from St Pancras.

Well not just the docklands but most of South/East London too using Jubilee line for connections.

 

[Trainfan344]

And for those wanting to transfer up the GEML.

 

[Daz28]

There doesn't seem that much point in doing so - it's hard enough to imagine international passengers wanting to use Ebbsfleet, let alone Stratford. While the Javelins are a useful service which I have on occasion used from St Pancras to Stratford, stopping other STP trains at Stratford seems a waste of electricity.

Ebbsfleet is ideal for anyone in North Kent or SE London, or coming via the M25. it is not helped by the lack of services. As the last train to Paris is 12.42 (yes - lunchtime!) I had to get a Southeastern to St Pancras and then the Eurostar back again on my recent trip.

Stratford can attract thousands to the shopping centre, and even more once the stadium reopens, so there should be demand. The real issue is the UK border controls which make stopping even one train a day prohibitively expensive.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

That does then beg the question as to why it is called Stratford International - Stratford Shopping Centre (North) would be more appropriate.

 

[dk1]

And for those wanting to transfer up the GEML.

Pleasent walk through Westfield stopping off if you wish for a coffee or some grub. Often prefer it to the DLR.

 

[306024]

Or even better stopping off at Tap East....... Cheers

The food stalls at the Stratford International end of Westfield always have something interesting, although one of the Eastern European staff at Stratford Proper (the GEML station) reckoned a loaf of bread they were charging £2 for would cost 4p back home.

One of my pet hates is the announcement on Southeastern Highspeed from Kent, "calling at Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International, Stratford International and St Pancras International". I'm not sure what is very international about a journey from Kent to London...

 

[jon0844]

When you walk around Stratford it does feel like you've gone abroad.

 

[steevp]

That does then beg the question as to why it is called Stratford International - Stratford Shopping Centre (North) would be more appropriate.

How about Stratford Village? (with apologies to the good people of Bicester)

 

[Mikey C]

I remember using the Javelin services during the Olympics, and the appallingly slow access to platform 1 ( or 4) down a metal spiral staircase.
Obviously a short term issue, but a classic case of capacity being restricted not by the trains or track capacity, but rather by the time it took passengers to reach the platform!

 

[Clip]

One of my pet hates is the announcement on Southeastern Highspeed from Kent, "calling at Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International, Stratford International and St Pancras International". I'm not sure what is very international about a journey from Kent to London...

Nowt really but seeing as that's what the stations are called then that's what they have to say.

Also a +1 for Tap East.

 

[lincolnshire]

I remember using the Javelin services during the Olympics, and the appallingly slow access to platform 1 ( or 4) down a metal spiral staircase.
Obviously a short term issue, but a classic case of capacity being restricted not by the trains or track capacity, but rather by the time it took passengers to reach the platform!

Was only there yesterday at Stratford international no Eurostar Trains stop here should that be whats its called or should it be Stratford the baby station to its big brother? What I was looking at on both platform 1 and 4 was the escalators going down to the platforms and thinking they won,t get worn out if they never get any use and the doors at the top blocking them off. I wonder how after they test them just in case they are needed.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Ebbsfleet is ideal for anyone in North Kent or SE London, or coming via the M25. it is not helped by the lack of services. As the last train to Paris is 12.42 (yes - lunchtime!) I had to get a Southeastern to St Pancras and then the Eurostar back again on my recent trip.

Stratford can attract thousands to the shopping centre, and even more once the stadium reopens, so there should be demand. The real issue is the UK border controls which make stopping even one train a day prohibitively expensive.

And this sort of thing is direct proof as to why all these controls on movement serve nothing but to cause problems for the economy...

 

[3141]

And this sort of thing is direct proof as to why all these controls on movement serve nothing but to cause problems for the economy...

I think that's only true if there is firm evidence that there is substantial potential demand to visit Stratford Shopping centre by people from France or Belgium. Daz28 thinks there would be but is there evidence? The situation might be different when the stadium reopens, if lots of foreign visitors want to go there.

 

[TheJRB]

One of my pet hates is the announcement on Southeastern Highspeed from Kent, "calling at Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International, Stratford International and St Pancras International". I'm not sure what is very international about a journey from Kent to London...

Imagine what it's like when you travel on it as often as I do!

In all seriousness though, I've found Stratford Int'l to be very useful. It must be noted just how easy it is to get from central and East Kent to the Docklands, East London and East Anglia now. Sometimes if you're at Liverpool Street it's easier to go via Stratford too rather than the Circle/H&C/Met to St Pancras.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ebbsfleet is ideal for anyone in North Kent or SE London, or coming via the M25. it is not helped by the lack of services. As the last train to Paris is 12.42 (yes - lunchtime!) I had to get a Southeastern to St Pancras and then the Eurostar back again on my recent trip.

It's important to remember Eurostar do call a few times a day at my own town of Ashford as well!

Indeed we have a 16:55 to Paris which is our latest train out to the continent but which is notably later than the 13:15 to Brussels which is the last one from Ebbsfleet. After the 16:22 from St Pancras to Paris, there are a further three Brussels trains and five Paris trains which make do not stop anywhere in Kent, quite why I'm not sure.

 

[Class 170101]

Sometimes if you're at Liverpool Street it's easier to go via Stratford too rather than the Circle/H&C/Met to St Pancras.

I just undertake the 5 minute walk to Moorgate and use the Northern line if the Circle Line is knackered or closed.

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps in the years to come, given King's Cross St Pancras is already very busy (even after the new ticket hall opened), it might make sense to make a call at Stratford International for people who actually want to go to east London (and bear in mind, Stratford and the surrounds are undergoing MASSIVE redevelopment, and in the future it won't be far up the line from Stratford to the area around Tottenham Hale/Angel Road which is also going to be totally redeveloped), or access Essex etc.

It would simply relieve some pressure, but it would of course mean ditching border controls so it might not happen in my lifetime!

 

[Class 170101]

but it would of course mean ditching border controls so it might not happen in my lifetime!

Sadly not in the current political climate with all the bashing of immigrants - legal and illegal by politicans.

 

[TheJRB]

I just undertake the 5 minute walk to Moorgate and use the Northern line if the Circle Line is knackered or closed.

I understand it's not always quicker but I find it's easier and often more comfortable to go via Stratford if you happen to be at Liverpool Street. After all it would seem to make more sense to get a train at what is more relatively street level than to have to use the Underground which will more often than not be more busy than an off-peak train bound for say Southend Victoria.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I think that's only true if there is firm evidence that there is substantial potential demand to visit Stratford Shopping centre by people from France or Belgium. Daz28 thinks there would be but is there evidence? The situation might be different when the stadium reopens, if lots of foreign visitors want to go there.

It's an example.

A far more pertinent one is the utter lack of any trains north of London, or to anywhere other than bits of France and Brussels. "There's no demand" is hilariously short-sighted when connections between European cities of much smaller size over similar distances are viable, and when many could just be extensions of London services anyway. I'm aware this is off-topic though.

 

[Taunton]

Stratford is my nearest HS1 station. It is however ludicrous to call it "International" when not only have no international trains ever stopped there, but Eurostar never meant to, just keeping quiet about them perceiving there was no demand. It would also waste a lot of time; 18-car trains with passengers booked into reservations in various cars up and down the train can't make 30-second stops - just look at how long trains from Brussels take at Lille Europe.

Those who think the International side is part of the notably busy Stratford mainline/Underground/DLR station have clearly never been there. It's either walk a good 10-15 minutes through the shopping centre (poorly signposted), or make your convoluted way to the generally ghost town DLR station (which is different again to the Javelin one), pay a large TfL fare for one stop, wait up to 10 minutes for the next DLR train, ride for 2 minutes to the "real" Stratford, and then board your mainline train there.

The amount of abandoned (or nearly so) Eurostar infrastructure in Britain, on our supposedly newest railway, is extraordinary. Waterloo, the flyover at Stewarts Lane, the depot at Old Oak Common, Stratford station, the works done on the classic route through Kent, the spur behind Gravesend, the passing loops for freight (haha) on HS1 through Kent, while Ebbsfleet and Ashford stations also give a ghost town impression pretty much all the time. The last time we came through Ebbsfleet, the border control staff appeared to outnumber the passengers.

 

[306024]

Those who think the International side is part of the notably busy Stratford mainline/Underground/DLR station have clearly never been there. It's either walk a good 10-15 minutes through the shopping centre (poorly signposted), or make your convoluted way to the generally ghost town DLR station (which is different again to the Javelin one), pay a large TfL fare for one stop, wait up to 10 minutes for the next DLR train, ride for 2 minutes to the "real" Stratford, and then board your mainline train there.

I wouldn't do either of those options, unless of course you want a pint at the afore mentioned Tap East. Use the country end entrance / exit at the International station and you only have to walk a short bit of the Westfield shopping centre rather than the whole length. Agree it is poorly signed but I've made a connection with the GEML in 7 minutes using that route.

 

[TheJRB]

Stratford is my nearest HS1 station. It is however ludicrous to call it "International" when not only have no international trains ever stopped there, but Eurostar never meant to, just keeping quiet about them perceiving there was no demand. It would also waste a lot of time; 18-car trains with passengers booked into reservations in various cars up and down the train can't make 30-second stops - just look at how long trains from Brussels take at Lille Europe.

Those who think the International side is part of the notably busy Stratford mainline/Underground/DLR station have clearly never been there. It's either walk a good 10-15 minutes through the shopping centre (poorly signposted), or make your convoluted way to the generally ghost town DLR station (which is different again to the Javelin one), pay a large TfL fare for one stop, wait up to 10 minutes for the next DLR train, ride for 2 minutes to the "real" Stratford, and then board your mainline train there.

The amount of abandoned (or nearly so) Eurostar infrastructure in Britain, on our supposedly newest railway, is extraordinary. Waterloo, the flyover at Stewarts Lane, the depot at Old Oak Common, Stratford station, the works done on the classic route through Kent, the spur behind Gravesend, the passing loops for freight (haha) on HS1 through Kent, while Ebbsfleet and Ashford stations also give a ghost town impression pretty much all the time. The last time we came through Ebbsfleet, the border control staff appeared to outnumber the passengers.

I'm sorry that you take such a dim view on what for me has been a very useful railway with countless benefits.

Firstly, Eurostar calls at Ashford are typically three to five minutes, so no, thirty seconds is not possible but a long call is not necessary. However the main reason Eurostar will never call at Stratford International is that they operate like an airline and journey time is all important. This is the same reason they will never show any interest in running a service in the style of the long overdue Transmanche Metro.

Secondly, I've only ever got from International to Regional via the DLR (mainly owing to elderly relatives in tow). It's not a convoluted route, it's exceedingly straightforward and I fail to see how it can be construed otherwise.

Lastly, the infrastructure which you refer to is not as "dead" as you seem to suggest. Waterloo International is coming back into use with South West Trains. The Linford Street Curve is in-situ so whilst it's immediate usefulness is not obvious, it could perhaps be of use in the future. Either way, it no doubt paid for itself for the duration of Eurostar's presence at Waterloo. North Pole depot is being repurposed for Hitachi. Stratford International station is very useful, as I have already pointed out, for access to East London, East Anglia and the Docklands from Kent. Investment in the mainline routes through Kent plus the Tonbridge to Redhill line has paid off actually. To take just a couple of examples, Hastings line diversions run quite regularly via Redhill and the regularly scheduled service via Penshurst now runs through to London, whilst eliminating a "diesel island". Southeastern driver knowledge for Fawkham Spur has unfortunately not been renewed which seems a shame but HS1 is reliable enough that I don't believe it was ever used in passenger service for diversions in recent years. The loops on HS1 are already made use of by empty stock movements plus freight on HS1 might yet still work out as it's early days yet. I hope you are purely referring to the Eurostar platforms when you refer to Ashford station as a "ghost town" as I can firmly assure you that is busy almost all week at almost all hours. The Eurostar platforms are usually empty because passengers are only allowed down when a Eurostar is due imminently which makes sense for an airline style operation.

It irks me a little when the upgrades initiated by the Eurostar project are criticised. They were investments and they were just that; upgrades that benefit us not only in the short term but in the long term too.

 

[jopsuk]

Stratford would maybe more useful (train technical acceptance aside) if there was a way of easily reversing trains from the international platforms- it might then have a use a "budget" London terminus

 

[Philip C]

I'm sorry that you take such a dim view on what for me has been a very useful railway with countless benefits.

It irks me a little when the upgrades initiated by the Eurostar project are criticised. They were investments and they were just that; upgrades that benefit us not only in the short term but in the long term too.

They are indeed investments and do provide benefits. I think the real issue is whether some, most or indeed any of these investments, whose reasons for having been built has ceased within less than twenty years, will have met normal benefit:cost ratio criteria.

It is, of course, too late now not to spend the money; but I trust that those who gathered the benefits to justify enterprises such as Ashford Eurostar Station (maximum of six trains each way per day), Headcorn freight loops, Stratford Eurostar platforms and the remodelling of Tonbridge, to name but four, are no longer employed on this type of work.

I doubt that there is a member of this Forum that could not come up with a better use of the money that was wasted on providing Headcorn with up and down freight loops when it already had up and down platform loops and there was (and remains) precious little use made of the facility to overtake anything there anyway. The contrast between this attitude of spend and discard on a prestige project, and just make do in many other areas reflects badly on our political decision makers.

As for the cost of a fortnight of people running and jumping and falling in water, I suspect that the rest of the world didn't swoon about how clever we were quite as much as those promoting those silly sports imagined? Each time I pass Stratford on HS1 I wonder just how much the provision of those two extra platforms, their loops and that extra excavation cost. This all for a shuttle service for two, never to be repeated, weeks! A better exemplar of how not to allocate scarce investment funds it would be difficult to find.

 

[FlippyFF]

Can the passing loops on HS1 be used by passenger services? Last Monday I was on the 07:36 from Ashford to St Pancras and we were held for six minutes at Ashford West Junction to allow a late running Eurostar to pass by, could we have been routed into one of the loops and if so would the delay still have been as much?

Secondly, just for amusement, there are various posters at St Pancras stating that there were 48 escalator related accidents in 2014. Meanwhile at Stratford International, there is a poster saying that in 2014/2015 there have been 48 escalator related accidents at High Speed 1 stations. If St Pancras is considered to be a HS1 station, does this mean there have been no escalated related accidents at any other HS1 station?

 

[Taunton]

The Linford Street Curve is in-situ so whilst it's immediate usefulness is not obvious, it could perhaps be of use in the future. Either way, it no doubt paid for itself for the duration of Eurostar's presence at Waterloo.

It carried, what, 2 or 3 trains an hour each way for just 13 years, and has lain rusting for the last 8 years. Those whose trains have waited at Woking, Selhurst, or other places, where a continuous succession of conflicting services "do not justify" flying junctions must just wonder who writes the justification rules. What a shame that, unlike old station footbridges, unwanted flyovers cannot be just picked up and used elsewhere.