• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Why are there no ticket inspectors on national rail trains coming into london?

Status
Not open for further replies.

plasmaxx

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
47
i have noticed that generally there are NO ticket inspectors who check passengers tickets on trains like London Midlands from Watford Junction to the final stop, London Euston.

Even on the south and south west trains from Clapham junction to Epsom there are NO ticket inspectors!

I feel angered because I see quite a few passengers who either don't have the right ticket or no ticket at all and here I am paying for my monthly season ticket and in effect their rail fraud!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

MCR247

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2008
Messages
9,564
I was in London on Thursday and Friday and I went from London Bridge - Barnham and return to Victoria and also London - Cambridge (out via GN return via GA) and my ticket wasn't checked once. Was the same on the numerous SE, TL and SN services I travelled on. However, with ticket barriers they aren't really essential I suppose
 

plasmaxx

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
47
I was in London on Thursday and Friday and I went from London Bridge - Barnham and return to Victoria and also London - Cambridge (out via GN return via GA) and my ticket wasn't checked once. Was the same on the numerous SE, TL and SN services I travelled on. However, with ticket barriers they aren't really essential I suppose

It seems that when a train travels within greater London, there are no ticket inspectors or if there are they don't bother to check.

Also there are rail stations in Greater London that still don't have barriers. West Brompton is one example
 

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
8,426
Location
nowhere
Unfortunately, the logistics of checking tickets on services in Greater London are quite challenging, particularly because of things like the number of stops there are, the number of people on the train, etc. You also have to remember that there are a lot of trains going around as well, and if a person sees a group of travelling inspectors boarding a train, they'll just wait all of 5 minutes for the next service on the busier lines! That is why, ticket inspections on these kinds of services are done once people get off the train and have to go past the inspectors (eg at Wimbledon P5) which is usually quite effective (although it really does slow everyone who is coming from platforms 8-10 as they take up half the space there)

Edit to add: A lot of services are DOO, so there aren't guards on these who can do ticket checks anyway, and have to rely on travelling inspectors.
 

CC 72100

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2012
Messages
3,777
However, with ticket barriers they aren't really essential I suppose

Strong disagree.

While barriers can do an initial shift, they only check if the holder of the ticket has a valid ticket for that location.

What about those on child tickets?

What about those short-faring?

What about those with railcard discount but no railcard?

I support the use of barriers combined with on-train checks. The first can act as an initial shift to keep certain people away; the latter can much better determine validity in real time and catch people who just purchase tickets to get round the former.

In my view, one does not replace the other - they are mutually beneficial.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
if a person sees a group of travelling inspectors boarding a train, they'll just wait all of 5 minutes for the next service on the busier lines!

I do sometimes wonder why an awful lot more ticket checks weren't done by plain clothed inspectors.

Sure, you lose the visual deterrent, but I think for the most part you'd deter more people by making them not have a clue if the person(s) next to them are inspectors waiting to pounce.

I know many RPIs really enjoy dressing down too, so I do think it could work particularly well on London trains and TfL services.
 

Crossover

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Messages
9,247
Location
Yorkshire

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,771
Quite common to see inspectors on trains from Cambridge to London- both routes, all stopping patterns
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,842
It seems that when a train travels within greater London, there are no ticket inspectors or if there are they don't bother to check.

Also there are rail stations in Greater London that still don't have barriers. West Brompton is one example

West Brompton does have barriers, are you thinking of Kensington Olympia which didn't have them until recently?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
i have noticed that generally there are NO ticket inspectors who check passengers tickets on trains like London Midlands from Watford Junction to the final stop, London Euston.

Even on the south and south west trains from Clapham junction to Epsom there are NO ticket inspectors!

I feel angered because I see quite a few passengers who either don't have the right ticket or no ticket at all and here I am paying for my monthly season ticket and in effect their rail fraud!

How do you know how many passengers don't have the right ticket or no ticket at all?

As others have said there are probably a variety of reasons for the lack of ticket checks not least of all the fact that most stations have barriers although these are by no means foolproof, tailgating other passengers through them is by no means unusual in London.

I have seen a few ticket checks on LO trains but never on LU.
 
Last edited:
Joined
14 Aug 2012
Messages
1,070
Location
Stratford
Strong disagree.

While barriers can do an initial shift, they only check if the holder of the ticket has a valid ticket for that location.

What about those on child tickets?

What about those short-faring?

What about those with railcard discount but no railcard?

I support the use of barriers combined with on-train checks. The first can act as an initial shift to keep certain people away; the latter can much better determine validity in real time and catch people who just purchase tickets to get round the former.

In my view, one does not replace the other - they are mutually beneficial.

As I have posted on here before relying on barriers is ineffective all what happens is that it either pushes the problem away to another location or people find a way around it, Cambridge for example is a doddle to get round
 

387star

On Moderation
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
6,653
Almost all suburban trains aside south west trains in london and london midland are now DOO so that might mean ticket inspectors are not stuck with one train that said if they were doing the doors it might not make a difference

Lots of ticket barriers as mentioned and crowded trains

Not sure if oyster cards can be checked using avantix
 
Last edited:
Joined
14 Aug 2012
Messages
1,070
Location
Stratford
Out of interest, how do you know this?

Sometimes it's obvious, you see a young spotted oik get on the train and sit in first class, others you can tell by their behaviour, some wont sit down they will stand near the door looking up and down the gangway, whilst others do sit but sit on the edge of the seat with their knees in the gangway looking up and down, others are just nervous

Oh don't forget those that sit in the tiolet
 

387star

On Moderation
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
6,653
Sometimes it's obvious, you see a young spotted oik get on the train and sit in first class, others you can tell by their behaviour, some wont sit down they will stand near the door looking up and down the gangway, whilst others do sit but sit on the edge of the seat with their knees in the gangway looking up and down, others are just nervous

Oh don't forget those that sit in the tiolet

Then there are those who act ridiculously innocent are really polite and have an incorrect or no reservation for their advance ticket with an excuse that sounds genuine... Till you ask a few more questions <D

They normally state the price is the same for a later train which it might be but end of the day the ticket is invalid and they are valid for specific trains to reduce overcrowding
 
Last edited:

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
They normally state the price is the same for a later train which it might be but end of the day the ticket is invalid and they are valid for specific trains to reduce overcrowding

Oh come on, that is twisting it. They're valid on the booked train only to make the TOC more money!
 

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
7,768
Location
Herts
Annoying - get on a 507 bus in London and watch those who do not swipe in and (in some respects) meet the stereotypes. Bendy-buses were "free rides"
As far as the railway is concerned - there are ticketless surveys done quite frequently to identify the % of free riding.In a perfect world there would be none - but (and I cannot tell you the routes or percentages - in the bit I am interested in work wise , it is pretty low) - and these checks are done right across the 24 hours ....
 

mister-sparky

Member
Joined
28 Jan 2007
Messages
450
Location
Kent
I travel from Tunbridge Wells to London quite frequently and I see ticket inspectors on the trains EVERY single time.
 

tsr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
7,400
Location
Between the parallel lines
As I have recently posted, "spot checks" of unexpected areas on any given service are often very effective to keep people on their toes. Just checking a small part of a train can be profitable and, if that's all there is time for, is way better than doing nothing. Also, there are many crowded services into London where you can only employ this method and few others if you are on your own. Teams of RPIs, ATEs or assisting conductors can often work more comprehensively through even extremely busy trains.
 

Jonny

Established Member
Joined
10 Feb 2011
Messages
2,562
Sometimes it's obvious, you see a young spotted oik get on the train and sit in first class, others you can tell by their behaviour, some wont sit down they will stand near the door looking up and down the gangway, whilst others do sit but sit on the edge of the seat with their knees in the gangway looking up and down, others are just nervous

Some of which are legitimate behaviours even for those who do have valid tickets and may be nervous/on edge for other reasons, which may have nothing to do with wrongdoing.
 

tsr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
7,400
Location
Between the parallel lines
Some of which are legitimate behaviours even for those who do have valid tickets and may be nervous/on edge for other reasons, which may have nothing to do with wrongdoing.

Quite.

The three golden rules of ticket checking: know what you're talking about, be thorough, and keep an open mind... the latter being rather important here!
 

Chrisgr31

Established Member
Joined
2 Aug 2011
Messages
1,675
On Southern my ticket is checked on average twice a week in to London, invariably before Edenbridge. I can only recall one occasion in when it has been checked between East Croydon and London Bridge, and I cant recall the last time we had a ticket check on the way home, or rather not on a peak hour service. Regularly gets checked on a day time journey home.
 

387star

On Moderation
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
6,653
Do southern conductors check tickets often between brighton and havant?
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,434
Location
Yorkshire
i have noticed that generally there are NO ticket inspectors who check passengers tickets on trains like London Midlands from Watford Junction to the final stop, London Euston.
These trains have commercial Guards, but most seem remain in the back cab (between Watford Jn and Euston) in my experience*.
Even on the south and south west trains from Clapham junction to Epsom there are NO ticket inspectors!
South West Trains services on this route will have non-commercial Guards. They cannot check, nor sell, train tickets.

I feel angered because I see quite a few passengers who either don't have the right ticket
How do you inspect their tickets, out of interest?
or no ticket at all and here I am paying for my monthly season ticket and in effect their rail fraud!
How do you know they have no ticket? Presumably because they are acting suspiciously or saying to someone that they have not bought a ticket. Using your Watford Jn to London example, They'd have to have got on at somewhere like Watford West, and they'd have to hope for a non-barriered station at Euston, otherwise they couldn't get away with having no ticket.

(* By that I don't just mean what I have witnessed but based on what other people who I know, who commute on that line, have said)
 

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
5,841
South West Trains services on this route will have non-commercial Guards. They cannot check, nor sell, train tickets.
Not always. Some services will have Commercial Guards and you do get ticket checks on the route sometimes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top