Southern at Charing Cross

[telstarbox]

Which were the Southern services which used Charing Cross until they were withdrawn in 2008? Were they cut back to the London Bridge bay platforms?

 

[LeeLivery]

Which were the Southern services which used Charing Cross until they were withdrawn in 2008? Were they cut back to the London Bridge bay platforms?

Services via Sydenham, I used it often. They were indeed cut back to London Bridge, I think there were more in Connex days, but I think it was every half hour after around 6pm until the end.

 

[greatkingrat]

It used to be the Tattenham Corner services that ran to Charing Cross.

 

[MichaelAMW]

It was Caterham and/or Tattenham Corner services, one or the other or both with a split at Purley, depending on the year or day of the week in question. Usually didn't run in the peak. I have timetables if you want more detail. Broadly speaking, they were semi fast on Mon - Sat daytime, i.e. London Bridge, New X Gate, Forest Hill, Sydenham, Norwood Junction, and all stations at other times, with stops at Penge West and Annerley depending on whether they were rush-hour only at the time - black triangle for those in the know!!

 

[physics34]

yeh as greatkingrat said.

It was caterham to charing cross in the evenings, and in connex days i think it was Horsham to Charing Cross (class 319s)

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, it was an interesting vestige of the South Eastern Railway's ownership of the Caterham and Tattenham Corner branches that lasted a surprisingly long time. I believe there was also a Charing Cross service along the electrified spur to Reigate at one time, but have a feeling this either ended or was diverted during the 1980's.

 

[NSE]

I remember the Tattenham Corner and Caterham ones. But I seem to recall the Reigate service, the hourly one, ran to CHX right to the end of Southerns involvement there. When all this London Bridge stuff is done, could we see some (if only peak services to keep away from London Bridge, Not that Charing Cross is crying out for more trains I know) Southern services back there? If some SE were being switched to Thameslink services through the core, could space open up? Purely hypothetical, I just like to see more variety in stations. And Southern are my favorite

 

[tsr]

Historically, through services on the North Downs Line (as it is now) from Reading towards Redhill were generally operated as a result of the formation of the Reading, Guildford and Reigate Railway, which was closely related to (and latterly, in the most basic of terms, operated by) the South Eastern Railway. The SER was keen to link the GWR with the LBSCR, in what was (for them) perhaps an unusually inspired move, and yet one which did fairly little for railway company relations. Nonetheless, services from Reading and, latterly, Reigate (until 2009) continued to London Charing Cross via some shared infrastructure, and many of the mileages on the NDL are measured from CHX even today. In what is an uncanny and some would say unnerving resemblance to the LBSCR, Southern have previously elected to "dumb down" connections provided between the BML and NDL at Redhill, with what will shortly be a complete lack of coastal BML or Arun Valley services throughout most of the day on Mondays through to Saturdays, and this will be traded off against fast Reigate - London Victoria services and Thameslink connections. This means the old LBSCR has triumphed in preventing the SER from providing some potentially useful links between the central Sussex Coast and their route to Reading, and of course it is highly unlikely in the near future that services (at least off-peak) will ever run from Reigate to Charing Cross. So really we have gone full circle, in a way, with the original railways' competitive intentions...

 

[yorksrob]

Historically, through services on the North Downs Line (as it is now) from Reading towards Redhill were generally operated as a result of the formation of the Reading, Guildford and Reigate Railway, which was closely related to (and latterly, in the most basic of terms, operated by) the South Eastern Railway. The SER was keen to link the GWR with the LBSCR, in what was (for them) perhaps an unusually inspired move, and yet one which did fairly little for railway company relations. Nonetheless, services from Reading and, latterly, Reigate (until 2009) continued to London Charing Cross via some shared infrastructure, and many of the mileages on the NDL are measured from CHX even today. In what is an uncanny and some would say unnerving resemblance to the LBSCR, Southern have previously elected to "dumb down" connections provided between the BML and NDL at Redhill, with what will shortly be a complete lack of coastal BML or Arun Valley services throughout most of the day on Mondays through to Saturdays, and this will be traded off against fast Reigate - London Victoria services and Thameslink connections. This means the old LBSCR has triumphed in preventing the SER from providing some potentially useful links between the central Sussex Coast and their route to Reading, and of course it is highly unlikely in the near future that services (at least off-peak) will ever run from Reigate to Charing Cross. So really we have gone full circle, in a way, with the original railways' competitive intentions...

I spent a few unhappy months at Reading and on my occasional day trips to Brighton tended to change at Gatwick Airport.

 

[Bald Rick]

When all this London Bridge stuff is done, could we see some (if only peak services to keep away from London Bridge, Not that Charing Cross is crying out for more trains I know) Southern services back there? If some SE were being switched to Thameslink services through the core, could space open up? Purely hypothetical, I just like to see more variety in stations. And Southern are my favorite

Definitely not.

 

[NSE]

Definitely not.

Oh that's a shame. But I figured that'd be the case. Southern have the bays at London Bridge so no need for adding additional conflicting movements to get them to Charing Cross simply for the benefit of extra variety there. One day eh

 

[yorksrob]

Oh that's a shame. But I figured that'd be the case. Southern have the bays at London Bridge so no need for adding additional conflicting movements to get them to Charing Cross simply for the benefit of extra variety there. One day eh

Presumably passengers between Croydon and London Bridge enjoyed having direct trains to the West End, so it wouldn't have been entirely for the benefit of rail enthusiasts

 

[Antman]

Presumably passengers between Croydon and London Bridge enjoyed having direct trains to the West End, so it wouldn't have been entirely for the benefit of rail enthusiasts

Indeed, that was a very handy direct link between Croydon and the West End and the trains were well used.

 

[NSE]

That's a good point Yorksrob. The Victoria line is always rammed and the through services would probably relieve a small bit of pressure on it, as people could go Croydon-Charing Cross, as opposed to Croydon-Victoria-Oxford Circus. Still hardly the biggest problem in the train world :P

 

[Kentish Paul]

I used to have a Friday night out with a mate who lived in Brockley. It was great to get a direct train from Charing Cross to Brockley without changing at London Bridge.

OK it was a Friday night but the train was always pretty full leaving Charing Cross.

 

[jimbo99]

Yep, I often travelled up from East Croydon to Charing Cross on Sunday afternoons. Fast to London Bridge, then Waterloo East and Charing Cross only. Doesn't seem long ago. Great service.

 

[bicbasher]

Back in the NSE era, it was 2tph off-peak to Caterham which ran semi-fast on the slow missing out Brockley, Honor Oak Park, Penge West and Anerley. Eventually Brockley and HOP were added.

I believe it was under Connex that it started to change with mainline services replacing the Metro stoppers during the day, with Caterham or Tattenham Corner stoppers in the evenings and Sundays. The Metro stoppers terminating at LB allowed 6tph to operate on the Sydenham slow.

Under Southern, I think they did Horsham, then Reigate and Tattenham Corner with the Metro stoppers continuing during evenings and Sundays unutl 2009.

 

[b0b]

Presumably passengers between Croydon and London Bridge enjoyed having direct trains to the West End, so it wouldn't have been entirely for the benefit of rail enthusiasts

This is a service I used a lot too, I seem to remember after work changing at London Bridge off a southbound Thameslink service on to this train fast to Norwood Junction!

Little did I know at the time a Farringdon-Croydon Stations season ticket was cheaper than a zone 1-4 and would have let me bounce via East Croydon. oh well!

 

[B&W]

Historically, through services on the North Downs Line (as it is now) from Reading towards Redhill were generally operated as a result of the formation of the Reading, Guildford and Reigate Railway, which was closely related to (and latterly, in the most basic of terms, operated by) the South Eastern Railway. The SER was keen to link the GWR with the LBSCR, in what was (for them) perhaps an unusually inspired move, and yet one which did fairly little for railway company relations. Nonetheless, services from Reading and, latterly, Reigate (until 2009) continued to London Charing Cross via some shared infrastructure, and many of the mileages on the NDL are measured from CHX even today. In what is an uncanny and some would say unnerving resemblance to the LBSCR, Southern have previously elected to "dumb down" connections provided between the BML and NDL at Redhill, with what will shortly be a complete lack of coastal BML or Arun Valley services throughout most of the day on Mondays through to Saturdays, and this will be traded off against fast Reigate - London Victoria services and Thameslink connections. This means the old LBSCR has triumphed in preventing the SER from providing some potentially useful links between the central Sussex Coast and their route to Reading, and of course it is highly unlikely in the near future that services (at least off-peak) will ever run from Reigate to Charing Cross. So really we have gone full circle, in a way, with the original railways' competitive intentions...

Redhill historically only had a few stopping trains to the Mid Sussex south of Horsham, all of the faster trains went via Quarry after they had been diverted from the Sutton and Dorking route. It is still much better for the Reading and Tonbridge lines people to change at Gatwick where there is a far better range of connections to all parts of the coast. Once the Mid Sussx trains were diverted into Redhill and also were forced to stop at Horley it became faster for people living south of Horsham to simply drive to Orpington and get SE into London Bridge/Charing Cross. I and dozens of others still do this as the recent A23 improvements mean Southern is even slower compared to our cars now. The Redhill stop added several minutes to the journey over and above the actual station dwell times, you always had a stop outside coming from the south and from the north you always crawled along at not much more than 10mph from where the old sand line spur connection was.

Fair play to Southern if they are trying to restore the trains times (and make their trains compete again with the roads) to something even remotely approaching what they were when the lines were first electrified in 1938. Are the stops at Horley going as well?

Brian

 

[RichJF]

Back during my secondary school commuting days via East Croydon, I vaguely remember there being a service that terminated at Redhill pl 1 that came from Charing X.

It would have been between 4pm & 5pm & used a 455.

This was back in 2001 and I don't recall it lasting more than a couple of weeks into my school days. Maybe a legacy from Connex days after South Central Trains took over.