Fist Bump

[RichmondCommu]

G'day everyone,

I thought I would share the following with you all and see what your reaction is. I'm on the board of directors of an advertising company based in London. Given my senior position in the company I very rarely get involved in interviewing candidates however a couple of weeks a go I was in our London office when I was introduced to a young man who had just been interviewed for a vacancy. The gentleman was in his mid twenties and university educated with a good degree. Our Head Of Talent introduced me after which I smiled, said a few words and held my hand out for a handshake. At this point it couldn't have been more obvious that I intended to shake his hand.

However, much to my absolute amazement he decided to give me a fist bump! What on earth! Not only was my colleague shocked and perplexed but so was I. One of the biggest issues that employers have is that graduates are all too often simply not equipped for working life but even I was surprised. Rather like our own children this young man had received an excellent state education and yet I could never have imagined our own little darlings doing anything so stupid.

Some of you might think I'm being a little harsh here but our organisation is run on a informal basis where possible and everything we do is done to encourage creative talent, without which we wouldn't make any money. Needless to say the young man wasn't successful simply because of his appalling lack of judgement.

Your thoughts on this would be very welcome!

Kind regards,

Richmond Commuter!

 

[Zoidberg]

What is a 'fist pump'?

But whatever it is, it seems to me that a handshake was in order.

EDIT: And I just googled 'Fist Pump'. More of a sporting celebration ... how inappropriate.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fist_pump

The fist pump is a celebratory gesture in which a fist is raised before the torso and subsequently drawn down and nearer to the body in a vigorous, swift motion

Another EDIT: I see that the title of the thread has been changed to "Fist Bump" ... still inappropriate.

 

[Domh245]

I think fist pumping someone once they've held out their hand is quite a daft thing to do, especially if they are going to be one of people who pays your wages. It might be acceptable to do this if you have worked there for several years and have gotten to know your boss to a good level, but if you've barely met them, even in an informal environment, a formal handshake is the safest bet.

 

[Crossover]

What a plonker! Can't think of many places where a fist pump would be advisable in business - I may get coerced into doing such with colleagues on occasion (usually begrudgingly to keep them quiet) but would never be appropriate with management IMHO

Edit: Sounds like the candidate is of a similar age to me, to put it into perspective. Not that I actively remember how long since I graduated...makes me feel old

 

[cjp]

Look for someone else to employ, someone able to interact at better level

 

[PermitToTravel]

Do you by chance mean a fist bump? It'd be less ludicrous, though still a gross misjudgement.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Do you by chance mean a fist bump? It'd be less ludicrous, though still a gross misjudgement.

You know something, you're right and thinking about it yes it was a bump! I'm waiting up for my wife to get back from her shift and I'm bushed! Unfortunately I'm unable to change the title of the thread. Stupid man!

 

[PermitToTravel]

You can change the title by clicking Edit on your opening post, then Go Advanced, and then editing the text in the box at the top.

Back on topic, it sounds like the lad might not have interviewed much. I wonder if he'd read some advice somewhere to "appear confident" and done so in very much the wrong way.

 

[Crossover]

You know something, you're right and thinking about it yes it was a bump! I'm waiting up for my wife to get from her shift and I'm bushed! Unfortunately I'm unable to change the title of the thread. Stupid man!

'Safe'

You can also edit the title by editing the first post

 

[RichmondCommu]

'Safe'

You can also edit the title by editing the first post

You can change the title by clicking Edit on your opening post, then Go Advanced, and then editing the text in the box at the top.

Back on topic, it sounds like the lad might not have interviewed much. I wonder if he'd read some advice somewhere to "appear confident" and done so in very much the wrong way.

Many thanks to both of you for the tip!

I've caught my youngest son saying 'Safe' and now he say's it to wind his mum and I up!

What really surprised me was the candidate came from a very well respected recruitment agency who carefully coach people on their books before they go for interviews.

The fist bump was included in our feedback to the agency in the hope that he doesn't make the same mistake again. However, as I said at the start it was his lack of judgement that really shocked me.

 

[Bodiddly]

There is a difference between a fist pump and a fist bump, but both are equally inappropriate during a job interview!

 

[DaleCooper]

Although my reaction would have been the same as yours I just wonder what you would have done if he'd been the outstanding candidate in every other way.

There is a difference between a fist pump and a fist bump, but both are equally inappropriate during a job interview!

A fist pump sounds like a bit too much like masturbation to me.

 

[Bodiddly]

A fist pump sounds like a bit too much like masturbation to me.

Now that would certainly rule you out of the running for the post, easily distracted!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Some of you might think I'm being a little harsh here but our organisation is run on a informal basis where possible and everything we do is done to encourage creative talent, without which we wouldn't make any money. Needless to say the young man wasn't successful simply because of his appalling lack of judgement.

You appear to be in the same level of Senior Management as I was, prior to my retirement. I must confess that I always sat on the interview panel for candidates wishing to obtain senior roles within our consultancy, both in Britain and in our consultancy offices in Toronto which I headed from 1995 to 2004. I can never recall anything remotely like what you have described as ever occurring to me and the worst that I can recall was being the recipient of an over-vigorous and over-long handshake from a candidate in his early 30's who was called back into the interview room at the end of the interview period to be told that he was the successful applicant for the position so advertised.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Although my reaction would have been the same as yours I just wonder what you would have done if he'd been the outstanding candidate in every other way.

Well that's the thing, by all accounts the candidate interviewed very well and would have stood a very good chance of being successful if it hadn't been for his error of judgement.
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You appear to be in the same level of Senior Management as I was, prior to my retirement. I must confess that I always sat on the interview panel for candidates wishing to obtain senior roles within our consultancy, both in Britain and in our consultancy offices in Toronto which I headed from 1995 to 2004. I can never recall anything remotely like what you have described as ever occurring to me and the worst that I can recall was being the recipient of an over-vigorous and over-long handshake from a candidate in his early 30's who was called back into the interview room at the end of the interview period to be told that he was the successful applicant for the position so advertised.

Paul, thanks for your post. Its worth mentioning that I was the only one out of the four of us who was offered a fist bump and yet I was by far and away the most senior person that he had met!

 

[me123]

You aren't the only one who doesn't like fist bumping...
[youtube]xBRuKpNpDwA[/youtube]

I, of course, whole heartedly agree that it's completely inappropriate in an interview situation! I've been through some interview processes recently, and at no point did it ever occur to me to do anything other than shake the hand of the people on the panels (aside from one woman who clearly did not want to do so, but even then it wasn't a standard face to face interview situation, as I was making a presentation to her). Fist bumping didn't even cross my mind.

Like a lot of things, it's got its place in society. It's an informal gesture to be used between friends or teammates. Completely inappropriate when meeting a potential employer for the first time.

 

[Oswyntail]

That sort of thing has been going on a long while!
http://www.teebiss.com/blog/hippocleides/

According to the ancient Greek historian, Herodotus, here was once a wealthy tyrant of Sicyon named Cleisthenes. This man wished to marry his daughter to the “best man in all of Greece”. Among the many suitors was a young man named Hippocleides, the wealthiest and best-looking man in all of Athens. For his parentage, conversation, manly qualities, temper, education, and manners Hippocleides was the favorite.

When all the young men had been considered the time came for Cleisthenes to make his decision. He gave a great banquet, in which all the suitors and all of Sicyon was invited.

When the dinner was over the suitors began to compete with one another in music and talking to company. In both these accomplishments Hippocleides was the clear winner. The tyrant of Sicyon was so pleased with Hippocleides he stood ready to proclaim him the winner.

Hippocleides by this time was suitably drunk. Wine after wine after wine he drank, and finally he demanded that a flute player play him a tune. Hippocleides began to dance vigorously. Cleisthenes was shocked, but allowed this to continue. Soon Hippocleides called for a table, which he climbed and then danced upon. For his crowning achievement, Hippocleides stood on his head and gesticulated with his legs, keeping time to the music.

Cleisthenes was appalled and could bear this no longer. “Hippocleides, you have danced away your marriage!” he cried.

To which Hippocleides replied, (legs still gesticulating) “Hippocleides doesn’t care!”

 

[TheKnightWho]

Well that's the thing, by all accounts the candidate interviewed very well and would have stood a very good chance of being successful if it hadn't been for his error of judgement.
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Paul, thanks for your post. Its worth mentioning that I was the only one out of the four of us who was offered a fist bump and yet I was by far and away the most senior person that he had met!

Not employing a candidate because you don't like their mannerisms seems utterly ridiculous in my eyes...

Yes, it's not appropriate, but if they're excellent in every other way why should it make a shred of difference? If they'll be doing anything involving PR or whatever then it's easy to tell them it's not appropriate. If they aren't doing anything customer-facing then I can't see how it's a factor.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

To play devil's advocate for a moment, was a fist bump really any more inappropriate than the type of handshake that seems popular among business types, which involves squeezing the other person's hand REALLY EFFING HARD while grinning and winking at them without breaking eye-contact?

 

[scott118]

I've caught my youngest son saying 'Safe' and now he say's it to wind his mum and I up!

Standard.

 

[DownSouth]

Not employing a candidate because you don't like their mannerisms seems utterly ridiculous in my eyes...

Yes, it's not appropriate, but if they're excellent in every other way why should it make a shred of difference? If they'll be doing anything involving PR or whatever then it's easy to tell them it's not appropriate. If they aren't doing anything customer-facing then I can't see how it's a factor.

Indeed - job interviews are only really useful for picking the person with the best technique for passing job interviews.

Given that apparently this was for a creative role, it would appear that such inflexible old-world approaches to recruiting may cost them dearly if this excellent candidate goes to a competing company where managers who understand creatives can get the best out of him.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If this was for a starter job of some kind (either from school or grad) one would likely expect the candidate not to know all the ins and outs of business etiquette. So if they were otherwise the best candidate, I'd still employ them, but make it my business that they were properly trained in how to act in a work scenario.

 

[Domh245]

I'd have thought that if you were going for your first job, even if you don't know the ins and outs of business etiquette, you would be safer to play it safe and go as formal as possible than risking being informal and your potential employer not liking it, as has happened here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, I agree. But if I were employing I would be tolerant of it with an outstanding prospective employee if early in their career.

 

[TheKnightWho]

It's also important to remember that not everyone has had the privilege of learning proper etiquette for this sort of thing.

 

[CC 72100]

It's also important to remember that not everyone has had the privilege of learning proper etiquette for this sort of thing.

Fair comment but...

RichmondCommu
What really surprised me was the candidate came from a very well respected recruitment agency who carefully coach people on their books before they go for interviews.

 

[Abpj17]

Interview nerves?

I've known of someone interview for a senior role in the legal profession who put his feet up on the desk for the duration of the interview...

 

[RichmondCommu]

It's also important to remember that not everyone has had the privilege of learning proper etiquette for this sort of thing.

Well you do when you're on the books of a high quality recruitment agency as was the case with this gentleman! All of the candidates that they put forward have quite an initial grilling before their CV's are forwarded on to us. Not only that but they all receive three bits of key advice in terms of first impressions; wear the sharpest suite that you own, greet the interviewer with a firm handshake and maintain eye contact at all times. No mention is ever made of fist bumps.
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Interview nerves?

I've known of someone interview for a senior role in the legal profession who put his feet up on the desk for the duration of the interview...

Ah look, we've all been nervous when attending interviews, me included. However, the gentleman performed really well during the interview and it was only when he was introduced to me in reception (as he was leaving) that he decided to give me a random fist bump after I'd reached out to shake his hand!
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If this was for a starter job of some kind (either from school or grad) one would likely expect the candidate not to know all the ins and outs of business etiquette. So if they were otherwise the best candidate, I'd still employ them, but make it my business that they were properly trained in how to act in a work scenario.

Yes, I agree. But if I were employing I would be tolerant of it with an outstanding prospective employee if early in their career.

In all honesty Neil business etiquette is almost irrelevant here. What concerned us the most was the clear lack of rational decision making. When offered a hand shake surely to goodness you would not respond with an attempted fist bump?? By the same token, if you were offered a fist bump you would not respond with a hand shake.

For what its worth the young man was not long out of Uni but was and I presume still is in employment. As I also previously mentioned the agency that he is registered would have covered all bases to ensure that he stood the best chance of getting the job.
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Indeed - job interviews are only really useful for picking the person with the best technique for passing job interviews.

Given that apparently this was for a creative role, it would appear that such inflexible old-world approaches to recruiting may cost them dearly if this excellent candidate goes to a competing company where managers who understand creatives can get the best out of him.

I work for a company full of some of best creative types in the UK however the role that the gentleman was being interviewed for was an Account Manager. Not to work with our Blue Chip clients but never the less an important role within the organisation. The decision was taken that he could not be trusted to go and meet clients and run the risk of him performing random acts such as a fist bump.

 

[GatwickDepress]

What I was taught in secondary school in Citizenship (that subject nobody seems to know what to do with) was to always be as formal and as polite as possible during an interview; whether it be for McDonalds or Goldman Sachs. Always better to be overdressed than underdressed... all the best interview adages one can fit on a piece of A4 paper.

Not only that but they all receive three bits of key advice in terms of first impressions; wear the sharpest suite that you own, greet the interviewer with a firm handshake and maintain eye contact at all times. No mention is ever made of fist bumps.

Three piece, I hope?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Not employing a candidate because you don't like their mannerisms seems utterly ridiculous in my eyes...

Yes, it's not appropriate, but if they're excellent in every other way why should it make a shred of difference? If they'll be doing anything involving PR or whatever then it's easy to tell them it's not appropriate. If they aren't doing anything customer-facing then I can't see it's a factor.

Given that you are a student, have you applied to go to University? When you go for your interview (which you would need to pass in order to be accepted) would you seriously consider giving them a fist bump? Or when offered a hand shake would you choose to shake their hand?

As I've stated we could not run the risk of appointing him because of the danger of him performing random acts when meeting clients. Its worth pointing out here that he shook the hand of the receptionist and the two people who interviewed him. It was only as he was leaving our headquarters that he decided to give me a fist bump. Now if it had been fist bumps all round we could have put that down to youth culture and something we could perhaps talk through. However sadly random acts of madness are too much of a risk.
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What I was taught in secondary school in Citizenship (that subject nobody seems to know what to do with) was to always be as formal and as polite as possible during an interview; whether it be for McDonalds or Goldman Sachs. Always better to be overdressed than underdressed... all the best interview adages one can fit on a piece of A4 paper.


Three piece, I hope?

No Living in London as a young man and paying London rent we wouldn't expect him to turn up wearing a three piece! He was very well turned out though.