Alcohol ban on London transport

[johntea]

I was always under the impression that Boris had only banned drinking on the tube, but my friend that I was with over the weekend and lives in London claims this extends to other forms of London transport too, including trains!

I found this a bit hard to understand, how exactly do they decide which trains you can drink alcohol on and which you can't? (I'm not talking about special 'dry' services for football events etc).

 

[bicbasher]

It's certainly on all TfL services, including the buses, DLR, London Overground and Tramlink.

However I've never seen the drinking ban being enforced.

 

[Antman]

I've not seen many people ignoring the alcohol ban, and bus drivers will generally enforce it, but in many cases it is the alcohol they've consumed before boarding that is the problem!

 

[RichmondCommu]

It's certainly on all TfL services, including the buses, DLR, London Overground and Tramlink.

However I've never seen the drinking ban being enforced.

No I haven't either but my wife and I often use night buses at weekends and sometimes its an alcohol festival. To be honest TfL might as well not bother as its very difficult to enforce with limited resources. However in principal I completely agree with the ban.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've not seen many people ignoring the alcohol ban, and bus drivers will generally enforce it, but in many cases it is the alcohol they've consumed before boarding that is the problem!

However its a big ask for a bus driver to stop the bus if people conceal their alcohol until they are on the bus.

 

[physics34]

yeh doesnt apply on national rail services...............................yet. (unless you count LOROL services as national rail, as it is banned on there.)

 

[causton]

It is probably more of an "attitude test". If you want to get someone off the train, bus, tube, etc, you have an easy excuse to get them out if they have alcohol!

 

[yorkie]

yeh doesnt apply on national rail services...............................yet. (unless you count LOROL services as national rail, as it is banned on there.)

LO is an exception, because it's both part of National Rail (despite some staff, especially on gatelines, denying this) as well as being a TfL service.

 

[jopsuk]

presumably it'll apply to London Overground West Anglia and to TfL Rail (pre-crossrail) from the end of next month?

 

[syorksdeano]

Really? In that case I have breached that bye law a few times on my journey from London to Doncaster and London to Maidenhead .

In my defence I wasn't actually aware of this

 

[Mojo]

Really? In that case I have breached that bye law a few times on my journey from London to Doncaster and London to Maidenhead .

In my defence I wasn't actually aware of this

Neither of those routes have TfL services operate.

 

[londonbridge]

Saw someone drinking on the tram a few weeks ago, driver did nothing.

 

[radamfi]

Don't some London TOCs still sell alcohol from the trolley?

 

[GatwickDepress]

The alcohol ban is on TfL operated services only. National Rail services aren't affected by that (at least until TfL bid for West Coast and extend London Overground up to Glasgow. )

 

[Domh245]

Saw someone drinking on the tram a few weeks ago, driver did nothing.

That is partly the issue though. The driver (if he is lucky enough to notice this alcohol drinker amongst the people on the tram) will probably let it slide so that he doesn't get attacked, the tram doesn't run late/cancelled, the BTP don't have to be called etc. It is all about conflict avoidance.

Mind you, the tramlink ticket inspectors are usually quite good at this sort of thing, but I suppose that they have received training in dealing with this kind of person, and the fact that they work as a group makes it quite a bit easier for them to remove a person if necessary.

 

[DelW]

Saw someone drinking on the tram a few weeks ago, driver did nothing.

If that person is behaving reasonably in all other respects and not annoying other passengers, it's probably better not to intervene as that would possibly cause conflict and delay the service.

If they're noisy / abusive / annoying other passengers, the alcohol ban provides a simple and provable justification for removing them, with police assistance if necessary.

 

[andrewkeith5]

Saw someone drinking on the tram a few weeks ago, driver did nothing.

That is the job of the ticket inspectors - when the tram is in service, ASAIK the normal procedure is for the driver to remain in the cab with the door closed unless there is an emergency.

I would expect the same of all tram services really - with the frequencies they run and the potential to hold up a lot of traffic as well it isn't sensible to have the driver out of his cab dealing with customer related activities.

 

[martynbristow]

It's certainly on all TfL services, including the buses, DLR, London Overground and Tramlink.

However I've never seen the drinking ban being enforced.

Its banned on Merseyrail apparently, and being under the influence is too.
I've seen security walk right past a guy drinking with 3 cans spare.
However it was little more than an excuse to higher a graphic designer. I've hardly seen it used and the "refusal under the influence" has also not been used much. A number of people do get rejected but they struggle to get through a ticket barrier. They rely on people drinking and travelling.

 

[jopsuk]

far better people drink and take the train than drink and drive. Yes, it causes problems, but generally just unpleasantness rather than death and serious injury

 

[Clip]

Saw someone drinking on the tram a few weeks ago, driver did nothing.

Do you know if the driver saw them drinking on the tram?

 

[bengley]

I normally stop people entering at Victoria with alcohol in hand.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

You do get the odd anomalies. You can drink on the platform at Barking but not on a LO, DR or H & C train - you can drink on a Thameslink train at Farringdon but not on the platform.

 

[cool110]

It's the same in Merseyside as Merseyrail have copied that section of the TfL bylaws. So you can drink on non-Merseyrail trains but not the platforms at Southport, Ormskirk, Kirkby, Liverpool South Parkway, Hunts Cross, Bidston and Ellesmere Port. While at Chester you can't drink on a Merseyrail train but you can anywhere else.

 

[mister-sparky]

Alcohol should be banned on ALL trains, trams, buses, taxi's etc. Too many times I (and thousands of others) are subjected to abuse and threats from drunken people on public transport.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Alcohol should be banned on ALL trains, trams, buses, taxi's etc. Too many times I (and thousands of others) are subjected to abuse and threats from drunken people on public transport.

You could always move to a strict Islamic country where there is a total ban.

 

[londonbridge]

So those travelling first class and partaking of the dining car facilities should not be allowed a glass of wine with their meal then?

 

[scuffleball]

Also I saw someone taking illegal drugs on the night bus at about 5 am and the driver didn't do anything there was no one else there

 

[Holly]

If that person is behaving reasonably in all other respects and not annoying other passengers, it's probably better not to intervene as that would possibly cause conflict and delay the service.
If they're noisy / abusive / annoying other passengers, the alcohol ban provides a simple and provable justification for removing them, with police assistance if necessary.

That is entirely the right approach.
Something that used to be called common sense.
If it's not causing a problem then let it go. But if it is causing a problem then deal with the offender.

 

[fairysdad]

Alcohol should be banned on ALL trains, trams, buses, taxi's etc. Too many times I (and thousands of others) are subjected to abuse and threats from drunken people on public transport.

Banning alcohol =/= banning drunks

By banning alcohol on all public transport, you wouldn't be stopping drunks abusing or threatening people. That said, there is a part of me that agrees with the idea of banning alcohol on public transport (mostly for the safety and comfort of other passengers); with regard to trains though, a line would have to be drawn - TfL are probably right in banning it on their services as a journey on the Tube is akin to a bus journey in terms of duration and style, but there have been times when I've had a beer on a long-distance train.

However, by banning people who have had alcohol from public transport, to be honest, that would be a very bad idea - there have been times when I, and I expect many other forum members, have had drinks of an evening, and have had to rely on public transport to get home again, be that a bus or a taxi. There is a difference though between a 'comedic drunk' (which I generally am) and an 'abusive drunk' - the latter is the one that you would need to curtail from public transport, but I understand that a good number of public transport providers will have, as do shops, pubs, and nightclubs etc., a 'right to refuse service' to people who are drunk or who it is feared will cause a danger to other people. (Admittedly, a refusal of service could cause more problems with abusive drunks!)

Basically, my point is that alcohol is not abusive drunkenness, so a blanket ban would be negative for the myriad of people who may want to sit down on a train and enjoy a drink, and wouldn't necessarily stop the people for whom alcohol causes them to be abusive and violent.

Do I know what the answer is? No. But a blanket ban isn't, I don't think, it.

 

[martynbristow]

Banning alcohol =/= banning drunks

By banning alcohol on all public transport, you wouldn't be stopping drunks abusing or threatening people. That said, there is a part of me that agrees with the idea of banning alcohol on public transport (mostly for the safety and comfort of other passengers); with regard to trains though, a line would have to be drawn - TfL are probably right in banning it on their services as a journey on the Tube is akin to a bus journey in terms of duration and style, but there have been times when I've had a beer on a long-distance train.

However, by banning people who have had alcohol from public transport, to be honest, that would be a very bad idea - there have been times when I, and I expect many other forum members, have had drinks of an evening, and have had to rely on public transport to get home again, be that a bus or a taxi. There is a difference though between a 'comedic drunk' (which I generally am) and an 'abusive drunk' - the latter is the one that you would need to curtail from public transport, but I understand that a good number of public transport providers will have, as do shops, pubs, and nightclubs etc., a 'right to refuse service' to people who are drunk or who it is feared will cause a danger to other people. (Admittedly, a refusal of service could cause more problems with abusive drunks!)

Basically, my point is that alcohol is not abusive drunkenness, so a blanket ban would be negative for the myriad of people who may want to sit down on a train and enjoy a drink, and wouldn't necessarily stop the people for whom alcohol causes them to be abusive and violent.

Do I know what the answer is? No. But a blanket ban isn't, I don't think, it.

By banning alcohol on public transport would: prevent drunken abuse on trains, prevent drunken incidents, prevent drunken assaults on staff and improve the atmosphere. But would just leave you with empty trains on a night time, people chancing drink driving!
A blanket ban would be very detrimental but refusing people who are unsafe to travel is sensible but is potentially going to cause a lot os issues because services stop at midnight. If we ran late services over the weekend it would allow people to sober up and still travel home but currently the only option is an expensive taxi.

 

[221129]

By banning alcohol on public transport would: prevent drunken abuse on trains, prevent drunken incidents, prevent drunken assaults on staff and improve the atmosphere. But would just leave you with empty trains on a night time, people chancing drink driving!
A blanket ban would be very detrimental but refusing people who are unsafe to travel is sensible but is potentially going to cause a lot os issues because services stop at midnight. If we ran late services over the weekend it would allow people to sober up and still travel home but currently the only option is an expensive taxi.

That is totally wrong... Banning alcohol on public transport and banning drunks are different things...