Unsuitablilty of Merseyrail Pacers on longer routes (e.g. Leeds to Morecambe)

[yorksrob]

Given that Northern Rail have a wide variety of 142s, every one of which has more comfortable seating than the Merseyrail abomination, what on earth possessed them to put one on a long journey like Leeds - Morecambe?

Given the scarcity of services, I just know the damned thing will be on my return journey.

Northern will be receiving a formal complaint.

 

[pemma]

Northern diagrams are for the type of unit only not type of interior.

A 142 diagram could be any type of 142 interior. The same with 150s. They sometimes put the ex-ATN 142s in single formation on peak services out of Manchester, which is just as bad.

Many of the longer services finish up being Pacers because Metro and Merseytravel offer financial incentives to Northern for using 156s and 158s on local services, so other longer services finish up with any old rubbish.

 

[47802]

Yawn is this going to be yet another 20 pages moaning about Railbuses.

Unfortunatly as jcollins says the Mersey abominations can turn up just about anywhere, not much point moaning about it really

Lets just wait and see what happens regarding the next Northern Franchise

 

[D365]

Yawn is this going to be yet another 20 pages moaning about Railbuses.

At least it won't be 20 pages of suggestions for Class 442 haulage!

But now that I mention it... hock:

 

[yorksrob]

Yawn is this going to be yet another 20 pages moaning about Railbuses.

Unfortunatly as jcollins says the Mersey abominations can turn up just about anywhere, not much point moaning about it really

Lets just wait and see what happens regarding the next Northern Franchise

Yawn all you like.

Given 142's are going to be with us for some time, these particular examples could do with being confined to shorter diagrams.

I note also that the toilet tanks haven't been filled. This might be unfortunate at the end of the night, but is unacceptable at eleven o'clock in the morning.
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At least it won't be 20 pages of suggestions for Class 442 haulage!

But now that I mention it... hock:

I would welcome a loco hauled 442.

 

[47802]

Yawn all you like.

Given 142's are going to be with us for some time, these particular examples could do with being confined to shorter diagrams.

.

Given Northern's random unit generator that's about as likely as me winning a million on lotto, especially as I don't even play lotto.

 

[455driver]

Northern diagrams are for the type of unit only not type of interior.

He would moan like eff if the train was cancelled due to the only available unit having the wrong seats! :roll:

 

[yorksrob]

He would moan like eff if the train was cancelled due to the only available unit having the wrong seats! :roll:

I certainly would.

However, Northern's fleet is made up of many units which itself includes many different 142's.

Just because I would prefer there to be a train than not (hardly the revelation of the year, given that I'm a rail traveller) that shouldn't preclude Northern exercising a little more care and attention in their diagramming.

 

[simon7929]

We never see them in the North East thankfully! It tends to be a mix of former ATN units or one of the Severn former FNW units which are allocated to HT. I have to admit they would be great in the summer for all the pushchairs travelling on the Saltburn to Bishop line with all that extra luggage space. However as soon as winter comes, NH can have them back.

 

[crehld]

I regularly use this route and previous experience tells me it's between a 144 (which have more comfortable seating, relatively speaking) or a 150 (sometimes you get the odd 153 coupled on the end of either). The 144s are usually out and about on the weekends and on the 1639 weekday service from Leeds (which is possibly the worst service to put these units on: passengers unable to board at Leeds, and still standing room only after Hellifield). The 150s usually work during the weekdays.

However, over the last three weeks I've noticed 142s putting in an appearance too, and it seems to be a newish development.

 

[yorksrob]

I regularly use this route and previous experience tells me it's between a 144 (which have more comfortable seating, relatively speaking) or a 150 (sometimes you get the odd 153 coupled on the end of either). The 144s are usually out and about on the weekends and on the 1639 weekday service from Leeds (which is possibly the worst service to put these units on: passengers unable to board at Leeds, and still standing room only after Hellifield). The 150s usually work during the weekdays.

However, over the last three weeks I've noticed 142s putting in an appearance too, and it seems to be a newish development.

Funnily enough, I concur with everything you've said, although I have had 142's on the line before - even the dreaded Merseyrail. Come to think of it, that was a bank holiday weekend as well!

I remember using the line in the late 90's and getting a 155 I think!

 

[Jonfun]

Never had a problem with the ex Merseytravel units seating. Much more comfortable than that found in some of the (ex-LM?) 150s and on the 319s.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Never had a problem with the ex Merseytravel units seating. Much more comfortable than that found in some of the (ex-LM?) 150s and on the 319s.

True enough... The main problems are a lack of legroom, and the fact that the padding in some seats (mostly those with enough legroom!) has become so compacted it may as well not be there!

 

[yorksrob]

The back of the Merseyrail unit seat is the wrong shape and gives absolutely no back support, and the padding non existant, and that's aside from the leg room issues. A traditional 142 with 1980's bus seats is a palace on a wheels in comparison.

The ex LM 150's are a bit scruffy, but the seats are infinitely superior to the Merseyrail examples as they have some padding and actually slope into the shape of the human back, rather than having a completely vertical seat back that is worse than useless.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

The merseyrail 142's are worse than Urban 90 seats on buses there dire... i have previously let services go past if formed by them

 

[bramling]

He would moan like eff if the train was cancelled due to the only available unit having the wrong seats! :roll:

Anything is better than nothing, but those seats really are awful, absolutely uncomfortable and the legroom is such that those with longer legs are literally wedged in. I bet that some large people physically cannot fit in the normal seats on these units.

How the design ever happened is something else, but even with the limited life left it would be worthwhile replacing the seats. The original bus seats are much more comfortable, so it's hard to see why they were replaced. Many other 142s retain their original seats.

 

[HSTEd]

I would welcome a loco hauled 442.

Clearly what we need is a formation of pacers operating as trailers hauled by a Class 442......

 

[childwallblues]

On trips that I have made to Sheffield recently I have noted that there are many more NH based units on local services. You only used to get HT 142s, NL 142/144 or NL 153/158.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Give that there's a shortage of DMUs is probably a case of they use them or don't run them services

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How the design ever happened is something else, but even with the limited life left it would be worthwhile replacing the seats. The original bus seats are much more comfortable, so it's hard to see why they were replaced. Many other 142s retain their original seats.

I do know of a number of people who would never claim that "the original bus seats are much more comfortable".
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Clearly what we need is a formation of pacers operating as trailers hauled by a Class 442......

....all en route to Booth's...

 

[yorksrob]

Give that there's a shortage of DMUs is probably a case of they use them or don't run them services

Or, confine them to shorter, local journeys would be preferable. Or, if all else fails, buy an old bus going for scrap and replace the seats with those.
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I do know of a number of people who would never claim that "the original bus seats are much more comfortable".

Out of interest, have they ever actually experienced a Merseyrail Pacer specifically, or are they getting confused with other less dreadful designs of seating used in the various Pacer classes?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

....all en route to Booth's...

No, the 442's are good!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Out of interest, have they ever actually experienced a Merseyrail Pacer specifically, or are they getting confused with other less dreadful designs of seating used in the various Pacer classes?

All of them are similar in age to me (70) and all are living in Aigburth and in Childwall, so I feel that they are well able to recognise an ex-Merseyrail Pacer.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The old bus seats are just as uncomfortable as the Merseyrail seats, it is just the legroom that is the issue.

And if you think a Morecambe train is bad for one of them, try Manchester Victoria to Bradford on a Saturday teatime.

 

[Clip]

Or, confine them to shorter, local journeys would be preferable. .
!

Preferable yes, but given you don't know whether it was a choice to run it or run nothing then at least you got a train and for that you should be happy about.

Unless of course you know the health of Northerns own fleet and its maintenance schedule and how many dud units happened on its network that day.

 

[pemma]

The old bus seats are just as uncomfortable as the Merseyrail seats, it is just the legroom that is the issue.

The Merseyrail seats are generally in fairly good condition even if they are uncomfortable and are probably the worst train interior anywhere for leg room.

Some of the old bus seats are in very poor condition. A new seat cover doesn't fix a worn out seat.

 

[crehld]

Preferable yes, but given you don't know whether it was a choice to run it or run nothing then at least you got a train and for that you should be happy about.

Unless of course you know the health of Northerns own fleet and its maintenance schedule and how many dud units happened on its network that day.

Being happy that a service exists and being satisfied with the quality of service are two different things. It has already been established further up the thread that a 142 rather than no service would be preferable, but if you pay a fare for a service and the quality of said service fails to live up to expectation then one is entitled to have a moan about it.

As for whether it's a one off occurrence due to maintenance, the presence of these units on the line over the last three weeks (as noted further up the thread) would suggest to me this is a more permanent feature rather than a off stop gap measure... Unless northern are very slow at maintenance which I guess is entirety possible!

 

[pemma]

As for whether it's a one off occurrence due to maintenance, the presence of these units on the line over the last three weeks (as noted further up the thread) would suggest to me this is a more permanent feature rather than a off stop gap measure... Unless northern are very slow at maintenance which I guess is entirety possible!

It could relate to Porterbrook taking one of the 144s back for conversion to an 'ePacer.'

 

[simon7929]

Couple of 319's are now in service in the NW so some DMUs are likely to be surplus.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The "surplus" DMUs have gone to Chiltern.

Coincidentally people in the Chilterns tend to vote Conservative and people in the PTE areas don't.

 

[pemma]

Couple of 319's are now in service in the NW so some DMUs are likely to be surplus.

The "surplus" DMUs have gone to Chiltern.

Coincidentally people in the Chilterns tend to vote Conservative and people in the PTE areas don't.

I don't think they've actually gone yet but Northern have had to send a couple of 156s to TPE for crew training purposes.

The 319 thread mentions 10 x 319 diagrams from May. Northern will loan 6 x 156s to TPE from May. One extra diagram is required for the Todmorden-Blackburn services and strengthening a Hazel Grove-Preston diagram was agreed a long time ago. That doesn't leave many DMUs for other lines, especially with the suggestion in the 319 thread that remaining Chat Moss diesel services will be 4 car not 2 car.