Awaiting Prosecution Letter

[Arkazle]

Hi all,

I am 19 years old. Around two months ago I didn't purchase a ticket from Isleworth station to Whitton (a 7 minute train journey consisting of two stops). I didn't have my debit card at the time and I boarded the train anyway which I know was very stupid.

As I made to exit the station, I was stopped by a bunch of rail officers who asked for my ticket. I said that I didn't have one and the man ran through the questions in his notebook taking down details and writing down my appearance. He was very rude to me (fairly understandable) and made me write down my details even asking for my NI number which I obviously didn't write down.

He asked what courses I was studying at college and actually said 'well you can forget that' in a sinister way (I don't have a clue what he meant). He then asked if I could pay for my ticket, to which I replied I couldn't, I seemed to not have the right amount of change in my pocket. He rang someone on his phone and read the details back to them and ended the call. I admit I was in the wrong and I never normally don't buy a ticket or use my oyster, in this situation I didn't have my oyster.

I am eagerly awaiting a letter from SW Trains, what can I expect to see in the letter? I am hoping to pay a significantly large fine to the rail company to avoid a summons. Will they let me pay without summons and what would we be the best advice you can give me? I have had an offence or two in the past when I was under 18 where I paid a £20 fine and an unpaid ticket notice which was £3 if I can remember.

If anyone can shed some light on this I would be very grateful. Other than that, I understand it is part of life to face up to a mistake like this; I am just hoping that I do not have to go to court and receive a criminal record. Thanks RailForums users!

 

[Clip]

Its hard to guess what the letter may say as they have a number of options. I take it the very rude RPI didn't make this clear to you?

 

[DaleCooper]

I wish people wouldn't refer to this kind of action as a "mistake", it isn't a mistake it's a deliberate act. From the RPI's point of view the fact that you had forgotten your debit card and Oyster, didn't have sufficient cash for a ticket and have a previous offence or two(?) this must look like deliberate fare evasion.

 

[HilversumNS]

I have had an offence or two in the past when I was under 18 where I paid a £20 fine and an unpaid ticket notice which was £3 if I can remember.

I think the above line may be relevant, if they find out about it (like reading this forum!)

 

[jon0844]

Looks like (from the RPIs point of view)? It is, pure and simple. These are the cases that should go straight to court without any offer of out of court settlements.

 

[Flamingo]

Isleworth to Whitton is a 45 minute walk...

 

[LexyBoy]

Sounds like they are likely to go for a Regulation of the Railways Act prosecution, which is recordable (a conviction would show up on a CRB check). As you've pointed out, your best option is to go after an out of court settlement - I'll leave it to others to advise as it's not my area.

He was very rude to me (fairly understandable) and made me write down my details even asking for my NI number which I obviously didn't write down.

If you were upfront and honest, then it's not understandable for him to be rude - he's just doing his job and should treat others with respect. If on the other hand you were evasive or rude, then yes it's understandable.

He asked what courses I was studying at college and actually said 'well you can forget that' in a sinister way (I don't have a clue what he meant).

Implying a criminal record will kill your career choice off. Best ignored, at least until there is an outcome. AIUI few jobs are automatic write-offs.

He then asked if I could pay for my ticket, to which I replied I couldn't, I seemed to not have the right amount of change in my pocket.

This gives SWT all the proof they need for a RoRA prosecution.

You say this as if you only found this out when challenged. Had you checked before getting the train, or just thought you'd not buy a ticket as you didn't have your card?

You contradict yourself here:

I admit I was in the wrong and I never normally don't buy a ticket or use my oyster [...]I have had an offence or two in the past when I was under 18 where I paid a £20 fine and an unpaid ticket notice which was £3 if I can remember.

... which will both lose you a lot of sympathy from many posters here, and be unlikely to escape SWT's attention.

 

[CC 72100]

... which will both lose you a lot of sympathy from many posters here, and be unlikely to escape SWT's attention.

So it sounds like there are previous offences, to compound the fact that the OP did not have an Oyster or debit card on them and then:

Posted by Arkazle

He then asked if I could pay for my ticket, to which I replied I couldn't, I seemed to not have the right amount of change in my pocket.

which to me suggests, (and this speaking as a personal view/interpretation) that there was never any intent to pay the fare - why else would you catch a train not sure whether you had the funds on you to pay for your ticket?

I can't see SWT looking on this too favourably.

 

[Greenback]

I'm afraid that I am another who thinks that SWT may want to make an example of you in court.

 

[island]

If this is your third offence then it is unlikely you will be offered yet another opportunity to deal with the matter out of court. But start saving. You might get lucky and SWT may accept a sum of money towards the unpaid fare and their expenses in detecting same – expect this to be in the three figures.

Also it should go without saying, but don't do this again! If you don't have a ticket, don't travel on the train!

 

[Mag_seven]

Given the two previous incidents (which the OP appears to have now edited out), they should be glad this country doesn't have a "three strikes law".

 

[najaB]

Given the two previous incidents (which the OP appears to have now edited out), they should be glad this country doesn't have a "three strikes law".

A three strike law wouldn't apply to the OP as they haven't previously been convicted of two offences. A "£20 fine" sounds very much like a penalty fare, and a £3 UFN isn't even at the level of a PF.

 

[SussexMan]

I wish people wouldn't refer to this kind of action as a "mistake", it isn't a mistake it's a deliberate act. From the RPI's point of view the fact that you had forgotten your debit card and Oyster, didn't have sufficient cash for a ticket and have a previous offence or two(?) this must look like deliberate fare evasion.

You can make a decision in life which is clearly the "wrong" decision. In hindsight it was clearly a mistake to take that course of action. The dictionary defines a mistake as "An act or judgement that is misguided or wrong". The act of getting on a train with no money is wrong and therefore it would clearly be a mistake to do so. The OP made that mistake.

Many people have committed criminal offences in their youth and later realised the mistake they made. Sadly some never realise their mistake. However, it is in fact a perfectly good use of the word.

Had the OP said they did it "by mistake" (defined as "accidentally, in error") then I'd agree with you.

 

[DaleCooper]

You can make a decision in life which is clearly the "wrong" decision. In hindsight it was clearly a mistake to take that course of action. The dictionary defines a mistake as "An act or judgement that is misguided or wrong". The act of getting on a train with no money is wrong and therefore it would clearly be a mistake to do so. The OP made that mistake.

Many people have committed criminal offences in their youth and later realised the mistake they made. Sadly some never realise their mistake. However, it is in fact a perfectly good use of the word.

Had the OP said they did it "by mistake" (defined as "accidentally, in error") then I'd agree with you.

You're right of course but I still feel the choice of word is intended to minimise the seriousness of the action. Perhaps my view has become jaded by politicians who say they've made a mistake when caught fiddling expenses, strictly speaking true but it still rankles with me as I don't think they would have considered it a mistake if they had got away with it.

 

[Antman]

Hi all,

I am 19 years old. Around two months ago I didn't purchase a ticket from Isleworth station to Whitton (a 7 minute train journey consisting of two stops). I didn't have my debit card at the time and I boarded the train anyway which I know was very stupid.

As I made to exit the station, I was stopped by a bunch of rail officers who asked for my ticket. I said that I didn't have one and the man ran through the questions in his notebook taking down details and writing down my appearance. He was very rude to me (fairly understandable) and made me write down my details even asking for my NI number which I obviously didn't write down.

He asked what courses I was studying at college and actually said 'well you can forget that' in a sinister way (I don't have a clue what he meant). He then asked if I could pay for my ticket, to which I replied I couldn't, I seemed to not have the right amount of change in my pocket. He rang someone on his phone and read the details back to them and ended the call. I admit I was in the wrong and I never normally don't buy a ticket or use my oyster, in this situation I didn't have my oyster.

I am eagerly awaiting a letter from SW Trains, what can I expect to see in the letter? I am hoping to pay a significantly large fine to the rail company to avoid a summons. Will they let me pay without summons and what would we be the best advice you can give me? I have had an offence or two in the past when I was under 18 where I paid a £20 fine and an unpaid ticket notice which was £3 if I can remember.

If anyone can shed some light on this I would be very grateful. Other than that, I understand it is part of life to face up to a mistake like this; I am just hoping that I do not have to go to court and receive a criminal record. Thanks RailForums users!

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of what you did or didn't do why is it understandable that he was rude to you? As far as I am concerned rudeness from staff is unprofessional and unacceptable.

 

[island]

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of what you did or didn't do why is it understandable that he was rude to you? As far as I am concerned rudeness from staff is unprofessional and unacceptable.

Rudeness is a matter of perception, and someone caught bang to rights having committed a criminal offence may perceive it as rude to be told so and questioned about it. An uninterested observer would be much less likely to so perceive it.

 

[Antman]

Rudeness is a matter of perception, and someone caught bang to rights having committed a criminal offence may perceive it as rude to be told so and questioned about it. An uninterested observer would be much less likely to so perceive it.

Well I can only take what the OP said in good faith.

I've seen some RPI's whose attitude has left much to be desired.

 

[Flamingo]

Well I can only take what the OP said in good faith.

I own Tower Bridge. Do you want to buy it for £100?
(After all, I'm an anonymous poster on a website, with an interest in painting myself in as good a light as possible, I MUST be telling the truth :roll

 

[reb0118]

An uninterested observer would be much less likely to so perceive it.

Correct. As an aside what would be best uninterested or disinterested?

It can very difficult to tell someone that they have made a mistake, and even more so when that mistake can have severe financial penalties.

A set procedure when dealing with the travelling public unfortunately does not result in a set response due to various factors as even politely, but firmly, asking to see a ticket can result in cheek and abuse.

 

[Antman]

I own Tower Bridge. Do you want to buy it for £100?
(After all, I'm an anonymous poster on a website, with an interest in painting myself in as good a light as possible, I MUST be telling the truth :roll

Now you're being silly:roll:

On a forum like this you have to take what is posted in good faith or what is the point of it and he's not exactly the first person to comment on rudeness from RPI's!

 

[455driver]

Now you're being silly:roll:

ohe isn't,he is showing how silly you are being though!

On a forum like this you have to take what is posted in good faith or what is the point of it

No you dont, it is your choice to!

and he's not exactly the first person to comment on rudeness from RPI's!

So if enough people say it then it must be true then!
Anyone being questioned about something they have done wrong will find the questioning invasive, it isn't a very big step from invasive to rude, rude as in 'I don't like the questions' rather than the true definition of rude.

 

[najaB]

On a forum like this you have to take what is posted in good faith or what is the point of it...

I wouldn't say that you have to take everything in good faith, if something makes your spider sense tingle then don't ignore it. I do agree that any advice given can only be based on what the poster has said - if they choose to leave out pertinent facts, then they will get bad advice.

 

[Antman]

ohe isn't,he is showing how silly you are being though!


No you dont, it is your choice to!



So if enough people say it then it must be true then!
Anyone being questioned about something they have done wrong will find the questioning invasive, it isn't a very big step from invasive to rude, rude as in 'I don't like the questions' rather than the true definition of rude.

If enough people say it then it certainly increases the likelihood of it being true and it is certainly in stark contrast to the way police officers are trained to deal with members of the public.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I own Tower Bridge. Do you want to buy it for £100?
(After all, I'm an anonymous poster on a website, with an interest in painting myself in as good a light as possible, I MUST be telling the truth :roll

Actually to quote you from another thread "if it doesn't sound true it probably isn't"

 

[Flamingo]

Now you're being silly:roll:

On a forum like this you have to take what is posted in good faith or what is the point of it and he's not exactly the first person to comment on rudeness from RPI's!

My manager has had numerous complaints from passengers who did not have valid tickets saying how rude I am. None from passengers who did have tickets. And several letters from passengers who observed the interaction with the ticketless individuals to say how professional I was...

 

[LexyBoy]

Is there any need to have the tedious rudeness "debate" (by which I mean constant insinuations that whoever claimed it must be lying) yet again?

Some people will feel questioning is rude when it's really just uncomfortably to-the-point; others will get rude responses to their own rudeness, and others will have encountered an RPI who happens to be an unpleasant person. As I said earlier on, trying to forestall such discussion, only the OP can know whether the RPI was reasonable or not in any rudeness.

I have been verbally abused by an RPI, and likewise other forum members have had unfounded allegations made against them: it happens. In those instances valid tickets were held - that doesn't mean that the reports we read in D&P are not true just because the passenger didn't have a valid ticket.

Apologies for the rant.

 

[Greenback]

You're right, LexyBoy, this isn't the place for such a debate. Let's leave the rudeness discussion for now. Anyone can feel free to start a new thread if they feel it's that important. Thanks all.

 

[yorkie]

Moved in accordance with the policy and as agreed via PM:

You did agree when you signed up that your posts cannot be removed, except at our discretion.

However, we are sympathetic to your plight and we understand that, in light of developments, you may wish for the thread to be removed during the investigation, and therefore we propose to remove it during this time.

We do request that you advise us of the outcome, as this can help others in a similar position to yourself in future. If you agree this is a sensible compromise, please reply indicating this, and we can implement this immediately.

Hi there, sorry for the late reply and thanks for the help. Yes I agree to the terms and will update the forums once everything is concluded. Thanks again, Alex.