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Odd ticketing restriction? TFGM B/R daysaver

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Howardh

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Buy a Gtr Manchester Rail Ranger and it's valid for the cross-centre trams. As are the majority (AFAIK??) of rail tickets with Manchester (any station) as the destination and, of course, cross-Manchester rail journeys.

Bought a System One Rail/Bus daysaver, and expected to be able to use it on
the tram between Victoria and Piccadilly. But I e-mailed TFGM and apparently that's not the case, which seems a bit odd.

Anyone used the B/T daysaver on city centre trams and been pulled up over it?
 
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JaJaWa

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That says nothing about the System One Rail/Bus daysaver?

The System One page doesn't mention anything about tram validity either http://www.systemonetravelcards.co.uk/travelcards/details/daysaver-bus-train.

However National Rail does say "Daysaver TB is valid on all Rail and Bus services within Greater Manchester, also valid on Metrolink services within the City Zone only" http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/prf0f796163043cf960bf53ef5923b3a.aspx. This page does appear to be outdated though as it doesn't mention the evening peak restriction on trains.
 

hairyhandedfool

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....Bought a System One Rail/Bus daysaver, and expected to be able to use it on
the tram between Victoria and Piccadilly. But I e-mailed TFGM and apparently that's not the case, which seems a bit odd.

Anyone used the B/T daysaver on city centre trams and been pulled up over it?

TfGM are, not for the first time, talking out of their rear end, it's valid in the city centre (Victoria/Piccadilly/Castlefield).
 

button_boxer

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As are the majority (AFAIK??) of rail tickets with Manchester (any station) as the destination and, of course, cross-Manchester rail journeys.


Rail tickets from an origin within GM will be issued to Manchester Ctlz and are valid on Metrolink in the city centre, but tickets from outside GM are to Manchester Stns and have no Metrolink validity. Similarly for cross-Manchester journeys I believe it's only tickets that are explicitly routed via Metrolink (which basically means journeys wholly within GM) that cover the Picc-Vic tram, those routed Any Permitted don't.
 

Howardh

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Got an e-mail reply which finally clears it up


Please accept my apologies for any confusion that arose from initial correspondence. The staff member was unsure of the information and I will ensure that they are aware of this for future queries.

The Bus and Train Daysaver can only be used for travel on city centre trams when the ticket is initially purchased from a train station for travel into the city centre and features the text Manchester CTLZ (Central Zone). This is as part of an aged agreement between Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) and Train Operating Companies (TOC’s).

If a ticket is initially purchased on a bus, it will not feature Manchester CTLZ and so cannot be used to travel on city centre trams.

As you will note from the weblink that you sent to us, it advises that it must feature Manchester CTLZ on the ticket to use the trams. Otherwise, customers can make use of the free Metroshuttle bus services to travel around the city centre.

I hope that the information provided assists to clarify your enquiry. Please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Yours sincerely

Not sure how they can get that info to anyone who doesn't know (their staff included, it seems) who simply boards a bus.

Maybe it would be good customer relations - and stop a lot of confusion - if they simply allowed CZ tram travel with any all-day bus or train GM ticket?
 

hairyhandedfool

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Sounds like they are getting confused over a few things.

Daysavers and Rail Rangers don't have a route field and thus will never have "Manchester CTLZ" or "Metrolink CTLZ" on them. They ARE valid in the Central Zone though.
 

JaJaWa

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Got an e-mail reply which finally clears it up




Not sure how they can get that info to anyone who doesn't know (their staff included, it seems) who simply boards a bus.

Maybe it would be good customer relations - and stop a lot of confusion - if they simply allowed CZ tram travel with any all-day bus or train GM ticket?

I'm not sure why you sent them that link - it didn't mention anything about the B/T ticket. starmill's link does but it's still not very clear.
 

bb21

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Oh dear, what a pile of mess.

Where the ticket is purchased shouldn't affect its validity, but I think the link you sent them possibly confused them further.

Anyway you have been given the correct answer from fellow forum members now so I doubt you would benefit by contacting them further.
 

Howardh

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Oh dear, what a pile of mess.

Where the ticket is purchased shouldn't affect its validity, but I think the link you sent them possibly confused them further.

Anyway you have been given the correct answer from fellow forum members now so I doubt you would benefit by contacting them further.

I have contacted them further - suggesting to avoid future confusion and for the sake of good customer relations simply make the B/T daysaver valid on CTRZ trams irrespective of where bought.

I pointed out that many of the current rail-replacements end up inconveniently at Victoria and in the evening the VIV-PICC link buses aren't available; so what's to lose by allowing x-centre travel?

If it can't happen it seems absurd that rail users can travel CTRZ for free but anyone on the *wrong* bus/rail ticket can't!
 

gnolife

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I don't have a picture, but posters displayed at all Metrolink stops state, under a heading labeled "validity of rail tickets" (or something to the effect of), that Daysaver Bus/Train area valid in the City Zone, without making reference to where printed.
 

bb21

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I have contacted them further - suggesting to avoid future confusion and for the sake of good customer relations simply make the B/T daysaver valid on CTRZ trams irrespective of where bought.

I pointed out that many of the current rail-replacements end up inconveniently at Victoria and in the evening the VIV-PICC link buses aren't available; so what's to lose by allowing x-centre travel?

If it can't happen it seems absurd that rail users can travel CTRZ for free but anyone on the *wrong* bus/rail ticket can't!

Maybe I did not make myself very clear.

The ticket is valid on City Zone travel on the Metrolink wherever it is purchased. There is no such thing as the ticket only being valid if purchased from a non-bus ticket machine. You have been given duff information by the advisers.

The reason I said there is nothing further to gain by contacting them is because I doubt there would be many people making such enquiries, and even if they were briefed about this chances are that the next time someone asked them for information on this front, they would likely have forgotten about it anyway.

You have all the answers in this thread so I see no point getting into further discussion with them.
 

Howardh

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Maybe I did not make myself very clear.

The ticket is valid on City Zone travel on the Metrolink wherever it is purchased. There is no such thing as the ticket only being valid if purchased from a non-bus ticket machine. You have been given duff information by the advisers.

The reason I said there is nothing further to gain by contacting them is because I doubt there would be many people making such enquiries, and even if they were briefed about this chances are that the next time someone asked them for information on this front, they would likely have forgotten about it anyway.

You have all the answers in this thread so I see no point getting into further discussion with them.
How do I know who's right?? If TfGM *caught* me using this ticket for the CZ trams and I was prosecuted, where are the rules and would said members commenting on this thread fund my defence? "The Rail User's Forum says I can use this ticket M'lud :rf: Just can't see what's wrong with a passenger spotting an anomily and asking them clarify and adjust if necessary!
.
 

Howardh

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TfGM's own website says that the Bus and Train Daysaver is valid on Metrolink trams in the City Zone:

http://www.tfgm.com/Corporate/Pages/Freedom-of-the-city.aspx

You could perhaps print that page off and carry it with you (not that you should need to).

Already done it! Not been challenged yet, indeed I've never seen inspectors on trams in the City Zone :D

Won't be needing it tonight - it's a bus+RRB direct to Piccadilly and straight to the pub from there.....
 

bb21

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Here is confirmation from Northern. I don't know whether you consider that good enough.

You can also tweet Metrolink if you are not happy with the advice from Northern. Metrolink twitter is manned today until 1800.
 

Rail Ranger

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Also I'm fairly sure that the ticket poster on the platform at every Metrolink stop tells you that the System One Bus and Train Daysaver is valid on Metrolink in the City Zone only.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I checked a Metrolink fares poster on a platform this morning and I can confirm that it says that what it calls a "County Bus and Train Day Saver" can be used for free travel in the City zone of Metrolink.
 

Howardh

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Here is confirmation from Northern. I don't know whether you consider that good enough.

You can also tweet Metrolink if you are not happy with the advice from Northern. Metrolink twitter is manned today until 1800.

To me that seems sound enough even though Northern Rail don't run the trams or tfgm! Retweeted back asking him to check with TFGM just to be on the safe side as that information is the complete opposite of what I have so don't want him to come a cropper. But I will tweet/contact Metrolink; as it's their service that would be the answer I would use on the trams/in court!!

If what TFGM told me was wrong, then someone needs to sort it out:oops:!!

EDIT Not used to twitter; how will I know when I have a reply? Will it appear in my mailbox??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK Metrolink have got back to me, a b/t day ticket bought on the bus is NOT valid on Metrolink CTLZ.

So it's TFGM and Metrolink = no. It hAS to have CTLZ on and the bus-bought tickets don't.
 
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gnolife

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To me that seems sound enough even though Northern Rail don't run the trams or tfgm! Retweeted back asking him to check with TFGM just to be on the safe side as that information is the complete opposite of what I have so don't want him to come a cropper. But I will tweet/contact Metrolink; as it's their service that would be the answer I would use on the trams/in court!!

If what TFGM told me was wrong, then someone needs to sort it out:oops:!!

EDIT Not used to twitter; how will I know when I have a reply? Will it appear in my mailbox??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK Metrolink have got back to me, a b/t day ticket bought on the bus is NOT valid on Metrolink CTLZ.

So it's TFGM and Metrolink = no. It hAS to have CTLZ on and the bus-bought tickets don't.

Just goes to show that their twitter feed doesn't know what it's talking about, or have a totally different view of the rules to the inspectors and the posters at stations.
 

Howardh

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Just goes to show that their twitter feed doesn't know what it's talking about, or have a totally different view of the rules to the inspectors and the posters at stations.

Next time I'm @ VIctoria I'll have a look to see if anything's displayed. To be honest the Metro tweet makes sense, as the bus/train tickets don't have (valid in) CTLZ on, whereas the train/bus ones do.

Somehow I'm gonna have to get to the top of TFGM and Metro and see if they can, indeed, accept both without predujice.

Have a feeling though no-one has ever been questioned on the trams in CTRZ by inspectors - that's if inspectors ever come round - otherwise I'm sure it would have been mentioned here lots of times! It may be that the ticket is quietly accepted anyway; but it would be nice to be *legal* just in case!

But it's been quite fun getting to the bottom of it all; and also worrying that writers on here have been saying one thing is right when it - in theory at least - isn't necessarily right.
 

gnolife

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Have a feeling though no-one has ever been questioned on the trams in CTRZ by inspectors - that's if inspectors ever come round - otherwise I'm sure it would have been mentioned here lots of times! It may be that the ticket is quietly accepted anyway; but it would be nice to be *legal* just in case!

But it's been quite fun getting to the bottom of it all; and also worrying that writers on here have been saying one thing is right when it - in theory at least - isn't necessarily right.

I've been stopped numerous times using this in various places in the city centre, (Most frequently at Shudehill during the Victoria shutdown), while they check that it's genuine, then let me carry on with what I'm doing.
 

Howardh

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I've been stopped numerous times using this in various places in the city centre, (Most frequently at Shudehill during the Victoria shutdown), while they check that it's genuine, then let me carry on with what I'm doing.

Thanks, that's reassuring :D
 

bb21

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Are rail-issued ones even annotated with the CTLZ?I have only ever bought bus ones but I would be very surprised if they were.

If not, then they are quite simply talking a load of nonsense.
 

Starmill

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It's just a Day Ranger with "DAYSAVER TB" in the 'Available' field.
 

bb21

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I can foresee an "interesting" conversation developing here.

If this goes badly, is anyone willing/able to take this issue up with their MP? Preferrably it would be someone local to the GM area.
 

hairyhandedfool

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Are rail-issued ones even annotated with the CTLZ?I have only ever bought bus ones but I would be very surprised if they were.

If not, then they are quite simply talking a load of nonsense.

No, they are not.
 
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