Greater anglia zone boundary 6 to Hertford East not available

[A1]

Last week purchased a z6 to Hertford stations super off peak for £2.95 (gc discount)
This ticket can no longer be found by station staff or on brfares using the searches below.

Origin 0072 BOUNDARY ZONE 6
Destination 6818 HERTFORD EAST HFE
Railcard / Discount NGC ANNUAL GOLD CARD

Origin 0072 BOUNDARY ZONE 6
Destination 0413 HERTFORD STNS
Railcard / Discount NGC ANNUAL GOLD CARD

Has there been validity changes for summer, or any other reason why it's gone? GA this week has moved to new style tickets, and replaced their booking engine I'm told. (webtis?), so maybe it wasn't carried over.

Still seems to exist for the station before, (ware), but price looks to have gone up (showing £3.95 on brfares with rail card discount. )

 

[Hadders]

This is extremely odd. I suspected they'd removed Hertford Stations and replaced with Hertford East and North but I can't see any fares to/from Hertford East to London either.

If they have removed Hertford Stations this is bad news as it removes the flexibility to travel from either station.

I suspect might be to do with Oyster being extended - I wonder if the local paper/MP would be interested.

 

[Searle]

I used this ticket occasionally, so I'm not best pleased! Saying that, the Hertford North ticket office would refuse to sell it to me anyway, when it did exist

 

[Envy123]

I suspect might be to do with Oyster being extended - I wonder if the local paper/MP would be interested.

Probably but I heard the Oyster system needs to be updated to handle more zones, before any extension happens.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Doing a bit of digging, it seems that fares between London and Hertford East are now explicitly Liverpool Street - Hertford East, rather than London Terminals - Hertford Stations, and those to Hertford North are London Terminals - Hertford North.

The only extensions are now to Hertford North, rather than East or Hertford Stations.

tl;dr Someone's royally messed up...

 

[Hadders]

Whatever the reason it's poor.

This is a significant dis-benefit for Hertford passengers. TOC's really should publicise such changes in advance rather than rely on internet forums to find out.

I wonder how many people will get caught out and end up being charged a penalty fare for travelling to the wrong station? Something they've been able to do for years.

Come to thing of it perhaps the old arrangements of tickets being valid to either station was too complicated and this is a simplification that passengers have been crying out for...

 

[RJ]

The Hertford Stations location has been removed from the majority of flows for technical reasons. Something apparently necessitated by the upcoming introduction of smartcards. It shouldn't be affecting seasons to London Terminals or Zones 1-6.

 

[Hadders]

The Hertford Stations location has been removed from the majority of flows for technical reasons. Something apparently necessitated by the upcoming introduction of smartcards. It shouldn't be affecting seasons to London Terminals or Zones 1-6.

But is is affecting Travelcards.

According to Avantix Traveller only the Anytime Day Travelcard is available from Hertford Stations. The off-peak varieties are now specifically from North and East only. Season tickets are still from Hertford Stations.

What a mess.

 

[Paul Kelly]

But is is affecting Travelcards.

According to Avantix Traveller only the Anytime Day Travelcard is available from Hertford Stations. The off-peak varieties are now specifically from North and East only.

Interesting - and the cheaper (£13.50) weekend-only Super Off-Peak Day Travelcard is no longer available from Hertford East - that looks to be a fare rise of 28% at weekends to the £17.30 Off-Peak Day Travelcard (which admittedly is 20p cheaper than it was yesterday).

 

[Hadders]

I have emailed Abellio and GTR asking some questions. Not that I expect things to change. It looks like a 'benefit' of smart cards...

As I said earlier it might be wise to involve the local paper.

 

[RJ]

But is is affecting Travelcards.

According to Avantix Traveller only the Anytime Day Travelcard is available from Hertford Stations. The off-peak varieties are now specifically from North and East only. Season tickets are still from Hertford Stations.

What a mess.

Yes, but not season Zone 1-6 Travelcards.

 

[Aictos]

One thing that RJ hasn't yet mentioned is according to the fares brief I have read, during disruption that route specific tickets will continue to be valid on the alterative route eg failed train at Ware so tickets routed Hertford East will be valid for use on the Hertford North route.

Just to reassure that mutual ticket acceptance won't be changing.

 

[Deerfold]

One thing that RJ hasn't yet mentioned is according to the fares brief I have read, during disruption that route specific tickets will continue to be valid on the alterative route eg failed train at Ware so tickets routed Hertford East will be valid for use on the Hertford North route.

Just to reassure that mutual ticket acceptance won't be changing.

Well, won't be changing during disruption.

 

[A1]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll be logging this with GA as a customer complaint. Seems to be a much bigger mess than I first thought, and will affect a lot of people.

 

[Be3G]

I've made use of the boundary zone 6 to Hertford Stations ticket too – 'tis ('twas) very useful with its flexibility to use three routes out of London. I'd definitely like to see it reinstated.

 

[mattdickinson]

The Hertford Stations location has been removed from the majority of flows for technical reasons. Something apparently necessitated by the upcoming introduction of smartcards. It shouldn't be affecting seasons to London Terminals or Zones 1-6.

The smartcard fares for Thameslink & Great Northern now appear on the fares listings. The limits seem to be Bedford, Huntingdon and Royston.

http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=HUN&dest=1072

http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=BDM&dest=1072

http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=RYS&dest=1072

I can't find any through fares to Southern, even for the Redhill to Brighton section.

Neither do there appear to be any between Thameslink & Great Northern stations.

 

[Aictos]

The smartcard fares for Thameslink & Great Northern now appear on the fares listings. The limits seem to be Bedford, Huntingdon and Royston.

http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=HUN&dest=1072

http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=BDM&dest=1072

http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=RYS&dest=1072

I can't find any through fares to Southern, even for the Redhill to Brighton section.

Neither do there appear to be any between Thameslink & Great Northern stations.

Indeed, I've had a look and season smartcards (7 days, monthly to yearly) are still valid from either Hertford Station as is case at Enfield Chase/Town which makes me think if they prefer people to use smartcard ticketing by making the paper ticket just a little more expensive like TfL did to encourage Oyster use

 

[Hadders]

Indeed, I've had a look and season smartcards (7 days, monthly to yearly) are still valid from either Hertford Station as is case at Enfield Chase/Town which makes me think if they prefer people to use smartcard ticketing by making the paper ticket just a little more expensive like TfL did to encourage Oyster use

I suspect you're correct but the key thing is whether the new smartcard systems will have single leg pricing (doubt they will). If they do then removing Hertford Stations isn't a big issue.

Doesn't look as though there'll be single leg pricing though.

 

[jon0844]

Surely you don't make these types of change until smartcards are actually available and usable?

 

[CyrusWuff]

I suspect you're correct but the key thing is whether the new smartcard systems will have single leg pricing (doubt they will). If they do then removing Hertford Stations isn't a big issue.

Removing any "Stations" group is a big issue though, as it reduces flexibility for the customer, which is the whole reason they were introduced in the first place! With this change, anyone wishing to travel out via Hertford North and back via Hertford East (or vice versa) now needs to buy Single tickets, at an additional cost, and if they're buying Travelcard extensions they potentially need to buy two Singles for the Hertford East leg just in case they catch a train going via Southbury instead of the main line.

 

[Hadders]

Removing any "Stations" group is a big issue though, as it reduces flexibility for the customer, which is the whole reason they were introduced in the first place! With this change, anyone wishing to travel out via Hertford North and back via Hertford East (or vice versa) now needs to buy Single tickets, at an additional cost, and itsf they're buying Travelcard extensions they potentially need to buy two Singles for the Hertford East leg just in case they catch a train going via Southbury instead of the main line.

Absolutely! My point about single leg pricing was is based on a single being half the price of a return; then removing the 'stations' group wouldn't matter and passengers wouldn't be inconvenienced.

It seems that Abellio/GTR/ATOC are unable to grasp this concept.

 

[greatkingrat]

I note that the GN carnet tickets don't seem to have a smart card equivalent so for most irregular commuters, these will remain the cheapest option. Surely these are the sort of tickets that would benefit most from moving to a smart card?

 

[jon0844]

I note that the GN carnet tickets don't seem to have a smart card equivalent so for most irregular commuters, these will remain the cheapest option. Surely these are the sort of tickets that would benefit most from moving to a smart card?

Yes, although it might be quite lucrative for GTR in that it's so easy to make a carnet ticket look like it's been tampered with.

Now that fares exist for The Key, is there any date for the launch on GTR? I see the m-tickets that FCC trialled are axed, and meanwhile AGA is doing trials of smart billing using your phone - so it's all up in the air.

I do think that until any of these other schemes are implemented and have gone live, as well as being promoted to all customers, it's ridiculous to remove tickets.

 

[JaJaWa]

I suspect you're correct but the key thing is whether the new smartcard systems will have single leg pricing (doubt they will). If they do then removing Hertford Stations isn't a big issue.

Doesn't look as though there'll be single leg pricing though.

Yes, although it might be quite lucrative for GTR in that it's so easy to make a carnet ticket look like it's been tampered with.

Now that fares exist for The Key, is there any date for the launch on GTR? I see the m-tickets that FCC trialled are axed, and meanwhile AGA is doing trials of smart billing using your phone - so it's all up in the air.

I do think that until any of these other schemes are implemented and have gone live, as well as being promoted to all customers, it's ridiculous to remove tickets.

September 2015. Most stations have validators now.

 

[unicorn]

Hello all. Long-time lurker....

I commute from Hertford East and can tell you there were enormous queues this morning! Not helped by one of the 2 ticket machines being out of service, but also I checked this evening, "London Terminals" as a destination on the TVM now only gives you the option of a 7 day season. It explains why I spied most people getting to the machine, poking it for a bit, and giving up... and huge queues at the guards who linger and issue tickets at the LST barriers.

Someone has since written a little note in biro and stuck on the machine saying you need to search for Liverpool Street now for singles & returns to London. I checked tonight, it's not even on the front screen as an option - it's got to be the #1 destination from HFE so seems a bit absurd that you have to go searching for it. Hardly an advertisement for Greater Anglia's communication skills in what is actually a fairly major change.

As far as I'm concerned... this is potentially a huge deal. I buy daily returns 3/4 days a week for £12 (the minimum) with a 16-25 railcard. Two nights a week I work late in London, missing the last train to Hertford East; under the "old" system I'd take underground to Kings X for Hertford North... now my ticket is strictly LST-HFE, has this functionality disappeared? And how I can most cheaply resolve it? Photo of tomorrow's ticket attached for interest

Also disappointed to find on Sunday that my old favourite £8.90 (with 16-25) Super-Offpeak Zone1-6 travelcard has disappeared.

To be honest I'm fairly disappointed Greater Anglia can arbitrarily do this, and with no communication whatsoever. The removal of Hertford Stations is significant... presume they got tired of sharing revenue with whoever runs Hertford North? Would they need DFT permission for this or are they a law unto themselves?

 

[Starmill]

Is the changing of the destinations from London Terminals not Crossrail related? Search for tickets from Tottenham Hale to London Terminals and you won't find any. You will find Anytime Day Singles and Returns to London Liverpool Street though.

I don't know what the historical position of Hertford Stations vs named stations is. If its anything like Southend, there are only seasons that are available for both.

 

[Hadders]

I believe it's been Hertford Stations to London Terminals for years.

It's a disgraceful situation with, as I suspected, no notification to passengers whatsoever.

 

[John @ home]

I don't know what the historical position of Hertford Stations vs named stations is.

Herford Stations - London Terminals route Any Permitted single, return and season tickets pre-date privatisation. For National Fares Manual NFM64 fares (1996), see http://www.farehistory.info/history/0413/1072/.

 

[ASharpe]

It also appears that there are now no tickets from Hertford to any of the Underground zones either.

 

[jon0844]

Is this some way of making it easier to create smartcard fares, by having less 'paper' fares to replicate?

It's a really poor show, especially if you have to wait until September for The Key on GTR and an equivalent goodness knows when for AGA.

One solution could be for GTR and AGA to state it will allow the use of tickets to the 'other' Hertford station (in terms of revenue sharing, wouldn't it be roughly equal?) but that then requires RPIs to let people pass, and for gates to be updated for acceptance.

To me, the only real solution is to put these fares back into the system.