Northern Rail link to (Other) Northern Rail services.

[TBY-Paul]

I recently followed a link to a Special Offer regarding Northern Rail, and to make use of it from my location to get to an area well covered by Northern Rail was impractical, Northeast-York/Leeds/Sheffield/Manchester etc. Which got me thinking, Why is there no Northern Rail services from Darlington/Teesside to York that can connect to the rest of the Northern Rail Network?

Has anybody ever looked into, Say, Hartlepool-York Stopper run by Northern rail. I was thinking of calling pattern of Hartlepool-Seaton Crew-Billingham-Stockton-Eaglescliffe-Yarm-Thirsk and York.

The reason I would miss out Northallerton is so it could use the goods/Low level line and avoid going on to the ECML. Such a service could make use of the Bay platform at HPL, it would also create a direct links between Yarm, Eaglescliffe & Stockton.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Northern had the Middlesbrough-York trains taken from their franchise, and the stopper is now a TPE train. That is why there are no Northern trains on that line. Bringing them back would be utterly pointless unless all Middlesbrough trains are taken away from TPE.

 

[TBY-Paul]

Sorry, I didn't know Northern ran the Middlesbrough-York route, I always thought it was a new service started by TPE. Did Northern run the service before or after Yarm Station was built?
I've seen references to when BR ran a Hartlepool to Liverpool services, but Hartlepool lost the link a while ago. York to Hartlepool & York to Middlesbrough are two different markets.
Why would there be a need to remove TPE services to Middlesbrough if Northern introduced a York to Hartlepool service. The service to Middlesbrough didn't suddenly collapse when the Grand Central service to Hartlepool started.

 

[Tetchytyke]

On the Middlesbrough-York line, one train every two hours ran through to Middlesbrough and one train every two hours only ran to York, and all were Arriva Trains Northern. The through train was usually a 158 using the TPE brand, the York train was usually a 142 or 156. The York train usually came from further north via the Durham Coast, under Arriva there were a few Carlisle-Newcastle-Sunderland-Middlesbrough-York trains (usually a 142!). It's only with the franchise split that all the Middlesbrough-York trains went to TPE and go through to Leeds and Manchester.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Arriva Trains Northern did the Middlesborough run, when ATN and First North Western became Northern Rail and First Transpennine Express, TPE took the Middlesborough run.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Don't some Northern trains swsp over beteeen Leeds and Newcastle depots? If so do they all run via Carlisle or do some run via York out of service?

 

[Iskra]

Aren't there some very early and also very late Northern services between York and Darlington, or have they stopped now?

 

[mm333]

Don't some Northern trains swsp over beteeen Leeds and Newcastle depots? If so do they all run via Carlisle or do some run via York out of service?

Some drivers still sign the ECML between York and Darlington. Currnently two ECS movements a day according to http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...9/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=NT

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Some drivers still sign the ECML between York and Darlington. Currnently two ECS movements a day according to http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...9/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=NT

Thanks. I knew I heard somewhere else in this forum about Northern running trains between depots. A service looks possible then.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's possible, but likely? Unless the Boro trains leave TPE, I'd say not.

 

[TBY-Paul]

My OP made a suggestion of have a Northern Rail Hartlepool-York Stopper which would only have Yarm, Thirsk & York as Stations where TPE and the suggested Northern Rail services would both Stop, Why would the TPE to Middlesbrough need to be dropped? Will the TPE to Middlesbrough be dropped when Virgin start going to Middlesbrough?

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Maybe Virgin East Coast isn't a good thing afterall?

 

[DarloRich]

I recently followed a link to a Special Offer regarding Northern Rail, and to make use of it from my location to get to an area well covered by Northern Rail was impractical, Northeast-York/Leeds/Sheffield/Manchester etc. Which got me thinking, Why is there no Northern Rail services from Darlington/Teesside to York that can connect to the rest of the Northern Rail Network?

There is - Early morning Darlington - Newcastle, Newcastle -Carlisel, Carlisle Leeds. You should be there by 14:00

Has anybody ever looked into, Say, Hartlepool-York Stopper run by Northern rail. I was thinking of calling pattern of Hartlepool-Seaton Crew-Billingham-Stockton-Eaglescliffe-Yarm-Thirsk and York.

The reason I would miss out Northallerton is so it could use the goods/Low level line and avoid going on to the ECML. Such a service could make use of the Bay platform at HPL, it would also create a direct links between Yarm, Eaglescliffe & Stockton.

There have been such services in the past. I remember when i was at university in Newcastle using a train that ran Newcastle - Thirsk via Hartlepooh (!) to get to a dentists appointment in Northallerton. I think this will have been early Northern Spirit days.

There were also "local" trains between Darlington & York further back but i am not sure how long they lasted. I certainly travelled on ones powered by Pacers! I assume these services are now part of the TPE remit.

I wonder if there would be paths/need for a pure local service these days? In any event i wouldn't miss Northallerton out as there is quite decent commuter market to/from York and Middlesbrough with the flow to Darlington not helped by the timetable

Don't some Northern trains swsp over beteeen Leeds and Newcastle depots? If so do they all run via Carlisle or do some run via York out of service?

Yes there are paths for ECS moves between Neville Hill/Holbeck and Heaton and also between York and Heaton however that is very different to being able to run a service in that slot

 

[Tetchytyke]

I definitely remember one train in ATN/Northern Spirit days that left Carlisle about 1030 and went right through to York via Hartlepool and Middlesbrough. It then returned to Newcastle in service straight up the ECML, calling at all stations.

Leaving aside the business desire to run in service the question is whether there are paths and crews to run in service regularly. There's only one main ECS path a day, which leaves York in the early evening and comes off a Harrogate Line train from Leeds.

 

[TBY-Paul]

The object of the OP, was regarding linking two Northern Rail area's that are not currently linked, and by suggesting a Hartlepool-York Stopper, it would not only create a link between the two area's, but would also create better links between the stations along the suggested route. So the service would have two benefits.

Most, if not all, previous services referred too, all have one thing in common. They were all before Yarm Station opened. Yarm's latest passenger figures (2013/14) show 122,002, and that's at a station that only has TPE calling. Yarm Station has a catchment area (Yarm/Ingleby Barwick) which is growing year on year, and has a big potential market, if the services and links were in place. Yarm is one of those places that is geographically awkward as far as railways are concerned, it not on the main Tees valley Line, but is connected to the Durham Coast line, but has no services along it. Yet it has grown passenger numbers since it opened. A service that linked it to EAG, STK & the Durham coast would only be a good thing.


The reason I left out Northallerton was two-fold, Firstly, it would avoid the need to enter the ECML(fasts), secondly Yarm & Eaglescliffe both have services that call at Northallerton. By removing the need to have a path at Northallerton, I thought it would make the service more feasible.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Under Arriva, there were a few Carlisle-Newcastle-Sunderland-Middlesbrough-York trains (usually a 142!).

That must have been be well in the running for the worst possible use of a Class 142..hock:

 

[Tetchytyke]

Most, if not all, previous services referred too, all have one thing in common. They were all before Yarm Station opened.

Yarm re-opened in 1996. The current TPE franchise, and split of trains, started in 2004.