21/05 Southeastern High Speed 1 problem 15:10

[Cletus]

On a Dover Priory bound service that has just made an emergency stop someway outside Ashford.
TM was told by the driver due to loss of power to signals.

Hopefully not a serious problem.
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Update 1522
Moving forward to next signal to await engineers. Half an hour delay suggested by TM.
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Update 1600
Been told we have permission to get to Ashford.

Can see us being terminated there ��
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Trains on the move now, backlog clearing at Ashford,

Arrived at Dover Priory 1708 nstead of 1531

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Slightly weirdly RTT says it was cancelled between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet when we definitely rolled into Ashford 70 minutes late.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W22069/2015/05/21/advanced

 

[Crossover]

Slightly weirdly RTT says it was cancelled between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet when we definitely rolled into Ashford 70 minutes late.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W22069/2015/05/21/advanced

Nope, it says it was cancelled between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras - it was a circular journey and it got terminated short on the return

 

[Cletus]

Oh yes, didn't scroll down any further than Ashford!
(The train actually went directly to Ramsgate via Canterbury West).

 

[Crossover]

Oh yes, didn't scroll down any further than Ashford!
(The train actually went directly to Ramsgate via Canterbury West).

Ah, that explains it!

 

[FlippyFF]

I was keeping an eye on these 'signalling' problems as I counted down the hours 'til I could leave work.

"Delays expected until 19:00" it said, so I made my way to St Pancras when I finished work at 19:00. On arrival at St Pancras my usual train, the 19:20 was shown as being four minutes late - the inbound ECS from Maidstone 5T91 was 22-26 minutes late, so I knew we wouldn't be leaving much before 19:30.

At 19:28 we duly left St Pancras and the OBM started announcing that we'd be stopping additionally at Ebbsfleet. I knew from RTT that a Eurostar was due to leave at 19:34 so I expected us to be held at Stratford International to allow it to pass us but checking RTT showed that it would probably catch us around the time we made the additional stop at Ebbsfleet, so the extra stop seemed sensible almost.

I buried my head in my phone and next looked out of the window as we slowed going over/under the M25 (A282 for the fussy). Head back into the game on my phone and I pondered what would happen if the driver had forgotten to slow for Ebbsfleet? I felt further deceleration and finally a stop but when I looked out the window, everything was black!

The intercom chimes went off and a few minutes later the driver came on the PA - "Control have forgotten to tell the signaller that we'd be stopping additionally at Ebbsfleet, so we've just got to wait a few moments while they reset the route.". Over ten minutes later the driver came back on the PA, after more driver - OBM intercom chimes, to inform us that the signaller had been unable to reset the route and that unfortunately we'd be non-stopping Ebbsfleet!

On the approach to Ashford, the driver came on the PA again to advise that the 20:16 Ashford to St Pancras train would be held at Ashford for those passengers needing to return to Ebbsfleet. Shame Southeastern didn't ask Stagecoach to hold it's buses too.

 

[RichardN]

Nope, it says it was cancelled between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras - it was a circular journey and it got terminated short on the return

So does that mean a Gravesend -> St P season via HS1 is valid for a journey around the entire circuit? Have negative easements ever been legally tested against the direct train rule? (Arguably if you are on a direct train, then the routing guide doesn't come into play at all.)

 

[yorkie]

So does that mean a Gravesend -> St P season via HS1 is valid for a journey around the entire circuit?

Yes, providing you don't alight no-one can dispute this is definitely valid.

Have negative easements ever been legally tested against the direct train rule? (Arguably if you are on a direct train, then the routing guide doesn't come into play at all.)

To comply with Condition 13 of the NRCoC, you only need to be complying with one of 13(i) or 13(ii) or 13(iii).

Therefore, if on a through train you can ignore the Routeing Guide - there is simply no need to consult it.

 

[RichardN]

Yes, providing you don't alight no-one can dispute this is definitely valid.


To comply with Condition 13 of the NRCoC, you only need to be complying with one of 13(i) or 13(ii) or 13(iii).

Therefore, if on a through train you can ignore the Routeing Guide - there is simply no need to consult it.

Ahh, but if you alight? A season allows you to break your journey en route. (Not that I'd have the stomach for the inevitable aggro, if I did, and I don't live on the route anyway)

 

[bb21]

Ahh, but if you alight? A season allows you to break your journey en route. (Not that I'd have the stomach for the inevitable aggro, if I did, and I don't live on the route anyway)

Then you will be looking at an argument over a technicality, namely whether no longer travelling on a direct train between your origin and destination invalidates your route.

In SE land, you will probably be looking at a Penalty Fare and a protracted discussion in your attempt to overturn it, and there is no guarantee of success. It may be an option for a single/return ticket. I would certainly not do it repeatedly on a season ticket if I were you.

 

[yorkie]

Ahh, but if you alight? A season allows you to break your journey en route. (Not that I'd have the stomach for the inevitable aggro, if I did, and I don't live on the route anyway)

Does a season ticket allow you to break your journey on a route that is not a permitted route?

Make sure you get a good lawyer who is certain of winning the case before trying that Flamingo can bring the popcorn.

 

[RichardN]

Does a season ticket allow you to break your journey on a route that is not a permitted route?

Make sure you get a good lawyer who is certain of winning the case before trying that Flamingo can bring the popcorn.

Apparently a well known poster on uk.railway used a Finsbury Park to London Terminals season to travel to Cambridge as WAGN operated a KX to Liverpool Street via Cambridge as a single service. The simple solution for the operator is to officially split the service and this was duly done.

 

[FlippyFF]

Apparently a well known poster on uk.railway used a Finsbury Park to London Terminals season to travel to Cambridge as WAGN operated a KX to Liverpool Street via Cambridge as a single service. The simple solution for the operator is to officially split the service and this was duly done.

But what counts as splitting the service? In the case of the St Pancras to St Pancras services the on-board displays and platform displays don't show it as such although the timetables do.

Furthermore, my Ashford to Z1-6 season says "Route/also available at : Plus High Speed" and the on-board route maps on the 395s show the entire loop (service pattern?) as a 'High Speed' service so.....

 

[JaJaWa]

Apparently a well known poster on uk.railway used a Finsbury Park to London Terminals season to travel to Cambridge as WAGN operated a KX to Liverpool Street via Cambridge as a single service. The simple solution for the operator is to officially split the service and this was duly done.

Why on earth was this timetabled as a through service?