Are SWT 444s and 450s due any sort of 10 year overhaul?

[SpacePhoenix]

Mods' note: split from South West Trains class 158 transfers to East midlands Trains

Are the 444s and 450s due any sort of 10 year overhaul at all?

 

[swt_passenger]

Are the 444s and 450s due any sort of 10 year overhaul at all?

I don't know the technical name for it, but the 450s are all going through some sort of mileage based overhaul at the moment, there's a production line been set up in Eastleigh works for a couple of years now; the work includes a bogie exchange. But no sign of a systematic repaint yet.

Pics on Carl Watson's Eastleigh works site here: http://www.carlswatson.com/Trains/G...0ArlingtonEastleighWorks/eastleighworks5.html

 

[387star]

I don't know the technical name for it, but the 450s are all going through some sort of mileage based overhaul at the moment, there's a production line been set up in Eastleigh works for a couple of years now; the work includes a bogie exchange. But no sign of a systematic repaint yet.

Pics on Carl Watson's Eastleigh works site here: http://www.carlswatson.com/Trains/G...0ArlingtonEastleighWorks/eastleighworks5.html

I presume they are replacing the vestibule carpeting during these works the new carpet looks very smart a golden colour

 

[HarleyDavidson]

They are meant to be rebogied with with Desiro City bogies (I take it that means Cl.700 or 707) which are lighter, but that seems to have come to a halt.

 

[swt_passenger]

They are meant to be rebogied with with Desiro City bogies (I take it that means Cl.700 or 707) which are lighter, but that seems to have come to a halt.

To avoid confusion, do you mean the further proposal to re-bogie again them with Desiro City types that hasn't started yet; as 'coming to a halt' would imply it had started?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Yep. That's what I mean.

 

[Bigfoot]

They won't be re bogied until all the class 700s are delivered. Even then that is the earliest. It's a major project to undertake. Siemens are busy with building the new units. I doubt they could produce almost twice as many bogies as they currently are without over stressing the already at capacity Desiro city production line.

 

[antharro]

I really do wish the 444s would have some sort of cosmetic overhaul. They're starting to look a bit tatty, both inside and out. Some of them don't appear to have seen a train wash in a long time, and some of the 450s look very faded. I've asked SWT a couple of times over Twitter if they have any plans to do anything to these trains but have been ignored both times.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I really do wish the 444s would have some sort of cosmetic overhaul. They're starting to look a bit tatty, both inside and out. Some of them don't appear to have seen a train wash in a long time, and some of the 450s look very faded. I've asked SWT a couple of times over Twitter if they have any plans to do anything to these trains but have been ignored both times.

For the cosmetic overhaul could they send them to the same place that done the 456s (which you'd think were new if you didn't know they're second hand and many years old)?

 

[AM9]

I really do wish the 444s would have some sort of cosmetic overhaul. They're starting to look a bit tatty, both inside and out. Some of them don't appear to have seen a train wash in a long time, and some of the 450s look very faded. I've asked SWT a couple of times over Twitter if they have any plans to do anything to these trains but have been ignored both times.

I'm not surprised that such tweets are ignored. I would think that there are more important things to worry about than whether to spend money on trains that even in their current condition are pristine when compared to what some are obliged to endure daily.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not surprised that such tweets are ignored. I would think that there are more important things to worry about than whether to spend money on trains that even in their current condition are pristine when compared to what some are obliged to endure daily.

LM's 350/1s are starting to look a bit mucky and threadbare, but that would be solved with new carpets[1] and seat covers. Not overly costly. The rest of the units are standing up well to heavy use with their good German build quality - don't you South West Londoners look after yours properly?

[1] I still think there should be more experimenting with patterned vinyl flooring e.g. fake wood - easier to clean and still looks nice, rather than it being a choice between mucky carpet and the standard railway mottled vinyl that just looks cheap and dirty.

 

[BananaRepublic]

I really do wish the 444s would have some sort of cosmetic overhaul. They're starting to look a bit tatty, both inside and out. Some of them don't appear to have seen a train wash in a long time, and some of the 450s look very faded....

This is rather disappointing considering how well these trains have been looked after and presented for service, until recently.

I thought that Siemens were under contract to present the Desiros in a clean condition, as well as being technically serviceable.
What has happened to change that?

The fading of the 450's blue, is another matter. It doesn't seem to be affecting all units though. An external refresh must be on the cards at some point?

 

[Juniper Driver]

Tis rather disappointing considering how well these trains have been looked after and presented for service, until recently.

I thought that Siemens were under contract to present the Desiros in a clean condition, as well as being technically serviceable.
What has happened to change that?

The fading of the 450's blue, is another matter. It doesn't seem to be affecting all units though. An external refresh must be on the cards at some point?

They could take a leaf out of the 455's/456's book,of which most if not all the class look splendid.Then again,getting from A-B reliably is probably more important than how clean the train is.Externally.

 

[TEW]

The 455s are/were starting to look quite faded but the are going through an overhaul which has made them look much smarter again both inside and out.

 

[387star]

LM's 350/1s are starting to look a bit mucky and threadbare, but that would be solved with new carpets[1] and seat covers. Not overly costly. The rest of the units are standing up well to heavy use with their good German build quality - don't you South West Londoners look after yours properly?

[1] I still think there should be more experimenting with patterned vinyl flooring e.g. fake wood - easier to clean and still looks nice, rather than it being a choice between mucky carpet and the standard railway mottled vinyl that just looks cheap and dirty.

FGW have fitted a much improved flooring to 150219 and 150261 not the cheap vinyl that bubbles up... feels much more solid

Rail reported a long time ago the 350/1s (ex silverlink) were to receive a green interior in line with the rest of the fleet..

 

[antharro]

I'm not surprised that such tweets are ignored. I would think that there are more important things to worry about than whether to spend money on trains that even in their current condition are pristine when compared to what some are obliged to endure daily.

Just because other places in the country have trains in worse condition doesn't mean SWT have to let their standards slip. They are usually quite good at keeping their stock in good condition - see the ongoing 455 repaint as an example of that. Anyway, how hard is it to put a train through the train wash from time to time? I'm not saying they have to repaint them every couple of years (though they are looking like they need it), just keep them clean. Re, Twitter, it's not great customer service when they're ignoring questions. I have had conversations with their Twitter team about far, far more trivial things.

I thought that Siemens were under contract to present the Desiros in a clean condition, as well as being technically serviceable.
What has happened to change that?

I believe the 444s have had some sort of mechanical overhaul recently, so they're being kept in good mechanical condition.

The fading of the 450's blue, is another matter. It doesn't seem to be affecting all units though. An external refresh must be on the cards at some point?

Agreed, not all units. But some of them do look pretty faded now.

They could take a leaf out of the 455's/456's book,of which most if not all the class look splendid.Then again,getting from A-B reliably is probably more important than how clean the train is.Externally.

Also agreed, the 455s and 456s look fantastic, as do the 458/5s. I suppose that's why the 444s and 450s aren't getting much of a look-in at the moment; all the depot time is being used by current on-going overhauls.

 

[MCR247]

Also agreed, the 455s and 456s look fantastic, as do the 458/5s. I suppose that's why the 444s and 450s aren't getting much of a look-in at the moment; all the depot time is being used by current on-going overhauls.

Desiros are maintained at Northam, the others at Wimbledon so shouldn't make any difference surely?

 

[antharro]

Desiros are maintained at Northam, the others at Wimbledon so shouldn't make any difference surely?

Paintwork for the 455 is being done at Bournemouth; I don't know if Northam has paint facilities...

 

[fgwrich]

Paintwork for the 455 is being done at Bournemouth; I don't know if Northam has paint facilities...

No. Although some paint facilities can be made temporary - some have received a touch up in the Siemens Road with Eastleigh Works, While the 450 roofs (the units affected) were painted in Strawberry Hill depot.

As quite a long term user of the SWT Desiro fleets, they have both aged very well - especially when compared to the comparable Bombardier offering which seem to be on at least their 3rd refurbishment now on Southern. I will agree however that some of the interior fittings are starting to look at little careworn, most notable the areas around the doors and toilet doors which are quite prone to vandalism when sent on 'Suburban' duties, but the majority of the units still feel comfortably fresh.

Exterior wise I will however agree, While Siemens has done a fantastic job of keeping them in a high standard and mechanical reliability, the as original exteriors of the 444s could now do with a respray at some time in the near future - not least down to a combination of the winter weathering and graffiti attacks. That said, SWT are in no doubt probably going to want to get as much back from their investment in the Bournemouth paintshop as possible, so could be done after the 455 job has been completed. And If Siemens is conducted to carry out the work, there is 2 paintshops available within Eastleigh Works - The Arlington Fleet Services and Former Wabtec one as built for the Southern 455 project.

 

[BananaRepublic]

.....how hard is it to put a train through the train wash from time to time?

Surely that should not be an issue?
I thought Siemens had to do that as a matter of contract?
They are contractually obliged to present x number of units per day in accordance with a service level type agreement.

I believe the 444s have had some sort of mechanical overhaul recently, so they're being kept in good mechanical condition.

Naturally they are kept in tip top condition. If not Siemens will incur financial penalties.
I would have thought there is no scope for neglect in this area.

 

[cjmillsnun]

LM's 350/1s are starting to look a bit mucky and threadbare, but that would be solved with new carpets[1] and seat covers. Not overly costly. The rest of the units are standing up well to heavy use with their good German build quality - don't you South West Londoners look after yours properly?

[1] I still think there should be more experimenting with patterned vinyl flooring e.g. fake wood - easier to clean and still looks nice, rather than it being a choice between mucky carpet and the standard railway mottled vinyl that just looks cheap and dirty.

444s/450s are the same. I suppose they look tatty compared to the other fleets that have been refurbished since the Desiros were introduced. The main issue with the 444s is that they are white and 11 years old. Even with regular cleaning, they look grubby.

 

[Monty]

The real problem is that a number of our carriage washers are currently broken and have been for some time. From what I have been told there are issues in obtaining new parts for them. The 450s hide the dirt quite well but the 444s not so much. Externally they don't need a repaint just a good clean.

 

[Goldfish62]

The real problem is that a number of our carriage washers are currently broken and have been for some time. From what I have been told there are issues in obtaining new parts for them. The 450s hide the dirt quite well but the 444s not so much. Externally they don't need a repaint just a good clean.

Ah, that explains it. Many of the 444s are now actually brown, not white.

A couple of friends joined me on the Juniper Factor last Saturday. They hadn't been on SWT for a while and they remarked on the scruffy external condition of the Desiros.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm not surprised that such tweets are ignored. I would think that there are more important things to worry about than whether to spend money on trains that even in their current condition are pristine when compared to what some are obliged to endure daily.

I'm interested to know why you're not surprised such tweets are ignored. It seems quite a reasonable question for which I'm sure SWT could provide a reasonable response - to one of its customers who pays the company money to use its services.

 

[BananaRepublic]

The real problem is that a number of our carriage washers are currently broken and have been for some time. From what I have been told there are issues in obtaining new parts for them. The 450s hide the dirt quite well but the 444s not so much. Externally they don't need a repaint just a good clean.

Thanks.
That explains a lot.
Hopefully clean normality is resumed ASAP.

 

[pompeyfan]

I remember a good few years ago there was a picture of a Connex 423 and an SWT 159 at emsworth (or similar) with the 159 in perfect condition and the Vep black with dirt, how things change, I can't remember recently seeing an externally dirty 313 or 377.

What is the yellow tint coming through on the 450s?

 

[Juniper Driver]

How the hell are the 455's looking so smart?

it's not a washer trick is it?

 

[159220]

I would imagine they shall eventually receive the updated SWT 'Express' livery as seen on 159103

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ukbuses/18057853595/sizes/k/

 

[387star]

Not as good as before why change it?

Has it received internal work like wifi fitting or more plug sockets or new seating

 

[TEW]

How the hell are the 455's looking so smart?

it's not a washer trick is it?

It's only the freshly painted 455s which look quite so smart. The difference between a recently painted unit and one with the original paint still is noticable when coupled together.

 

[fgwrich]

I would imagine they shall eventually receive the updated SWT 'Express' livery as seen on 159103

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ukbuses/18057853595/sizes/k/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ukbuses/18057853595/sizes/k*********[/QUOTE]

[quote="ml, post: 2185585"]Not as good as before why change it?

Has it received internal work like wifi fitting or more plug sockets or new seating[/QUOTE]

Hmm. Can't say I'm all too keen on this newer version.

As for new seating, I hope not yet. I know that there are plans afoot to refurbish them and replace the ex BR Seating with Grammer Seating. Which ones however I'm less keen on, as the same as the Desiro's keeps getting a mention. If they go for the same as East Midlands / ScotRail / ATW / FGW HST I would be happy, as you can easily add power sockets ala FGW or on the walls ala ATW, But I really hope not on the Desiro front.

I wonder if then that the 444s may well go into this scheme next?