Could London Overground Gospel Oak to Barking services be extended?

[Bringback309s]

With the electrification of the Gospel Oak - Barking line, how likely is it that services will continue West to Richmond or Clapham Junction? More good options for through services I'd have thought

 

[LeeLivery]

Personally I'd like it to be extended to Feltham via South Acton and Hounslow (little infill electrification needed on the chord). But with lack of capacity because of freights I don't see it going beyond Gospel Oak any time soon.

 

[t0ffeeman]

Would be better to link to Ealing Broadway, but there's no paths there either

 

[450.emu]

Personally I'd like it to be extended to Feltham via South Acton and Hounslow (little infill electrification needed on the chord). But with lack of capacity because of freights I don't see it going beyond Gospel Oak any time soon.

Would be good

 

[swt_passenger]

Personally I'd like it to be extended to Feltham via South Acton and Hounslow (little infill electrification needed on the chord). But with lack of capacity because of freights I don't see it going beyond Gospel Oak any time soon.

It's all about capacity as you say. They've maxed out the NLL paths so they'd presumably have to be reduced again to allow through services, that's before you deal with yet another flat crossing.

However the GLA's 'London 2050' proposed tube map showed GOBLIN remaining as a separate service, in fact it was diverted at Junction Rd Jn onto the MML as far as Brent Cross via West Hampstead Thameslink...

(Not a lot of people know that...)

 

[plcd1]

With the electrification of the Gospel Oak - Barking line, how likely is it that services will continue West to Richmond or Clapham Junction? More good options for through services I'd have thought

Doubtful given TfL have taken years to negotiate two extra paths per hour for NLL services. Beyond that it will be borderline impossible because of freight paths. The FOCs have no incentive whatsoever to release paths or weaken their inherited rights on that part of the network. Clearly we also need to see whether electrification will require remodelling at Gospel Oak or not. I would be surprised if the scheme involves a major reconstruction of platforms and through tracks for the GOBLIN.

 

[ry34081]

I think the plan for when overground no longer runs into Euston is
richmond to Barking 4tph
clapham to stratford 4tph
watford to stratford 4tph via primrose hill

 

[AM9]

It's all about capacity as you say. They've maxed out the NLL paths so they'd presumably have to be reduced again to allow through services, that's before you deal with yet another flat crossing.

However the GLA's 'London 2050' proposed tube map showed GOBLIN remaining as a separate service, in fact it was diverted at Junction Rd Jn onto the MML as far as Brent Cross via West Hampstead Thameslink...

(Not a lot of people know that...)

That's interesting. If there was a way to get over/under the MML fast tracks before Cricklewood, the service could then run onto the Dudding Hill line then through Acton, Gunnersbury and Kew to Richmond. That would allow some of the westbound Overground trains to serve Gladstone Park and North Willesden.

 

[t0ffeeman]

I think the plan for when overground no longer runs into Euston is
richmond to Barking 4tph
clapham to stratford 4tph
watford to stratford 4tph via primrose hill

have you got a link for this.... ?

 

[westcoaster]

How about a barking to West Hampstead thameslink.

 

[AM9]

How about a barking to West Hampstead thameslink.

With West Hampstead becoming a major local interchange, running a second Overground route via Junction Road Junction could be useful. The only problem is that LOROL trains would not be able to terminate there as they would obstruct the slows. Continuing it to at least Cricklewood may allow a diveunder or flyover to the west side where platforms could be built. That's why I suggested that the route could then take the Dudding Hill route all the way to Kew if wanted.

 

[westcoaster]

With West Hampstead becoming a major local interchange, running a second Overground route via Junction Road Junction could be useful. The only problem is that LOROL trains would not be able to terminate there as they would obstruct the slows. Continuing it to at least Cricklewood may allow a diveunder or flyover to the west side where platforms could be built. That's why I suggested that the route could then take the Dudding Hill route all the way to Kew if wanted.

I was thinking of a bay platform next to the up slow platform at west hampstead
http://goo.gl/maps/0nLc7 under the cars on potteries path.

 

[Nym]

You could always put another line in on the northern side of the station to have a center turn back platform, there appears to be enough track on either side so you could have full speed overlaps in place if so desired, then you would avoid conflicts when terminating services from Barking.

A diveunder at Cricklewood would be very helpful to bring everything round to that mashoosive interchange we're about to have at Old Oak Common. Either on North Pole and onto Clapham Junction, or simply terminating at OOC adjacent to everything else, or as has been raised, via a link at OOC down to Kew.

It would probably be an optimal solution (for passengers) though if all the services where integrated into a single set of platforms at Old Oak Common on the North Pole Site (Including Southern WLL Services) such that...

Services towards Clapham Junction pass from the NNML or WCML (SN) to pass through in an Easterly direction at 6tph, 4tph from Barking Riverside and 2tph from Watford Jcn/Milton Keynes Central.

Services from Willesden Junction can then loop around in either direction to pass through the OOC station in either direction, aiming for Richmond or Clapham Junction, at 6tph, likely to be all to Richmond.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves with plans to extend the GOBLIN services. The first priority should be to start lengthening platforms along the route to allow longer trains once the line is electrified. Having traveled along the route and experienced how busy the service is even mid afternoon it would appear to be a reasonably low cost project to reinstate platform lengths and there is certainly the demand for it.

 

[RobShipway]

According to an article in the latest rail magazine, there is possible plans to extend the Goblin to Barking Riverside due to new homes that will be built within this area over the coming years. It is expected that the extension of the line will take place during the electrification work if it happens.

 

[AM9]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves with plans to extend the GOBLIN services. The first priority should be to start lengthening platforms along the route to allow longer trains once the line is electrified. Having traveled along the route and experienced how busy the service is even mid afternoon it would appear to be a reasonably low cost project to reinstate platform lengths and there is certainly the demand for it.

Dwell times of the 172s are often extended owing to the overcrowding. Something like the 378s with plenty of doors, free movement within and better acceleration would allow much snappier stops, thereby improving headways between the frequent freight services. The freight trains would, in turn have better acceleration characteristics when electric hauled, if any pricing incentives to FOCs succeeded.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Dwell times of the 172s are often extended owing to the overcrowding. Something like the 378s with plenty of doors, free movement within and better acceleration would allow much snappier stops, thereby improving headways between the frequent freight services. The freight trains would, in turn have better acceleration characteristics when electric hauled, if any pricing incentives to FOCs succeeded.

But how much difference would that actually make in finding room for another service each hour? Its never fun not being able to board a train in the freezing cold, even if the next is only 15 minutes away. And not surprisingly the platforms facilities on the GOBLIN are not the greatest from what I've seen. I concur that electric locos accelerate quicker than diesels but how often does a freight service on the GOBLIN slow down once they are on the move. I would imagine that they have a clear run at the moment in order to not block Overground services.

 

[FlippyFF]

According to an article in the latest rail magazine, there is possible plans to extend the Goblin to Barking Riverside due to new homes that will be built within this area over the coming years. It is expected that the extension of the line will take place during the electrification work if it happens.

This https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/rail/barking-riverside-extension/consult_view?

 

[LeeLivery]

According to an article in the latest rail magazine, there is possible plans to extend the Goblin to Barking Riverside due to new homes that will be built within this area over the coming years. It is expected that the extension of the line will take place during the electrification work if it happens.

That was funded by the Chancellor in last years budget and will be built lively They couldn't build any more homes without a transport service guaranteed. TfL say there could be another station built possibly on the Tilbury Loop before it branches off to Riverside, and the plan is for the tracks to be easily extended across the river.
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Dwell times of the 172s are often extended owing to the overcrowding. Something like the 378s with plenty of doors, free movement within and better acceleration would allow much snappier stops, thereby improving headways between the frequent freight services. The freight trains would, in turn have better acceleration characteristics when electric hauled, if any pricing incentives to FOCs succeeded.

There still won't be enough freight routes electrified, they still can't be bothered to electrify the simple and quite short Felixstowe branch, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[AM9]

There still won't be enough freight routes electrified, they still can't be bothered to electrify the simple and quite short Felixstowe branch, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

But the route from the Thames Gateway will then be electrified from Barking via the GOBlin to the ECML, MML, WCML and GWML without using the already overcrowded GE line from Woodgrange Park junction to Stratford. Additionally, the raised lines in London may start getting attention for environmental reasons as they pass many homes at first floor window level. These areas are becoming more gentrified, so complaints about particulates and noise may have an impact on freight haulage through the suburbs.
Ex Felixstowe freight can't use the GOBlin without reversing so it's traffic will either continue to use the NLL via Stratford or go cross-country via the Bacon Factory curve and the Ely northern loops. I doubt that the Felixstowe branch will electrified until the Brecklands/Suffolk line is.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think the plan for when overground no longer runs into Euston is
richmond to Barking 4tph
clapham to stratford 4tph
watford to stratford 4tph via primrose hill

This isn't current TfL policy AFAIAA. It may have been a proposal somewhat widely discussed about how to help deal with Euston capacity during or after HS2 construction, but it hasn't appeared in any of TfL's recently published descriptions of the future rail network, for example the London 2050 map still shows the Overground into Euston, as does the 2016 map linked in another recent thread, which was the perceived future in 2011.

I think any diversion of LO via Primrose Hill currently comes under the 'highly unlikely' heading - it shouldn't really be described as though it were fact.

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How about a barking to West Hampstead thameslink.

That was what I just mentioned in post #5 above yours, although it would carry on further north?