Will all the new franchises have new stock?

[Dave1987]

I read a quote from the head of Bombardier saying he was 'pleased the DFT were choosing new fleets over cascades when renewing franchises' or words to that effect. Now being the boss of a big train manufacturing company in the UK I'm not exactly surprised by that in the slightest. But it does beg the question of will all the franchises up for renewal in the near future also have new stock? I notice that both Siemens and Bombardier are after orders for new stock on the midland mainline and GEML. If new stock is ordered for the Midland Mainline that would surely mean the stock on the ECML, once replaced by IEP, will have no new home and will be scrapped?

 

[Haydn1971]

I doubt even the DfT have thought that far ahead otherwise they would be blowing an "integrated approach" trumpet via an annual report to show how good they are !

 

[pemma]

Personally I don't think there's any evidence of all franchises getting new trains and not cascades. The FGW Direct Award consisted of a mix of new and cascaded, the Northern franchise will be the same. New trains aren't a surprise with the amount of passenger growth and the number of life-expired trains.

Would a new order for the MML be for all services or just the Corby ones which were expected to get cascaded Electrostars? Even if it's for the Sheffield/Nottingham services surely there are other possible future uses for the ECML sets, such as Anglia services or longer TPE services.

 

[TheEdge]

I think what has to be admitted sooner or later is all that the vast majority of 1980s and early 1990s BR built stock cannot keep being cascaded. If they are not already touching life expired by the time the current "new" franchises come to an end they sure will be.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If new stock is ordered for the Midland Mainline that would surely mean the stock on the ECML, once replaced by IEP, will have no new home and will be scrapped?

The DfT isn't fussed about the possibility of the ROSCOs being unable to lease stock.
It's only interested in the lease cost of new versus not so new, and growing capacity where necessary.
Ryanair and easyJet have a policy of replacing planes only 5 years old with new, to avoid the increasing cost of maintenance and of having too many variants.
That's the antithesis of traditional railway thinking.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The DfT isn't fussed about the possibility of the ROSCOs being unable to lease stock. It's only interested in the lease cost of new versus not so new, and growing capacity where necessary. Ryanair and easyJet have a policy of replacing planes only 5 years old with new, to avoid the increasing cost of maintenance and of having too many variants.

That's the antithesis of traditional railway thinking.

....especially with regard to "Newton Heath's Finest"...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ryanair and easyJet have a policy of replacing planes only 5 years old with new, to avoid the increasing cost of maintenance and of having too many variants.
That's the antithesis of traditional railway thinking.

The key difference there is that unlike UK-gauge railway rolling stock there is a healthy worldwide market for used ones.

If we had a UIC gauge railway and were buying standard DMUs and LHCS for it, we might be in the same position - but not as things are.

 

[pemma]

Ryanair and easyJet have a policy of replacing planes only 5 years old with new, to avoid the increasing cost of maintenance and of having too many variants.

That's the antithesis of traditional railway thinking.

And that allows smaller airlines such as Jet2 to buy the older planes, to refurbish them and then to keep them in service as long as possible.

I wonder if that happened with trains whether Grand Central and the like would be buying up considerable numbers of older trains. If they did then it would allow them to put in better track access applications as they wouldn't be relying on manufacturers to deliver new trains by a certain date and other operators wouldn't be able to submit responses saying they are proposing using untested trains which could prove unreliable (as was the case when they proposed using Polaris trains.)

 

[D365]

I wonder if that happened with trains whether Grand Central and the like would be buying up considerable numbers of older trains.

Not a considerable number, but GC is due to receive GW's 5 Class 180s in the near future and I imagine they'll take on HT's 180 fleet too, if and when they go electric.

Can't see any prospective ECML (or WCML) operators taking on redundant HSTs or IC225s but who's to say against a few trainsets to be retained?
[Aside from ScotRail receiving a number of HSTs, is VTEC still planning to retain some 225s?]

And how about the 442s

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I wonder if that happened with trains whether Grand Central and the like would be buying up considerable numbers of older trains. If they did then it would allow them to put in better track access applications as they wouldn't be relying on manufacturers to deliver new trains by a certain date and other operators wouldn't be able to submit responses saying they are proposing using untested trains which could prove unreliable (as was the case when they proposed using Polaris trains.)

The only TOC owners to do that were First and, to a smaller extent, Arriva (DB).
First was then in a good position to enhance the FGW HST fleet, and Arriva has done similar with ATW and Chiltern.
Not sure it will work a second time with Vivarail though (it's not Arriva, but involves some of the same folk)!

 

[pemma]

Not a considerable number, but GC is due to receive GW's 5 Class 180s in the near future and I imagine they'll take on HT's 180 fleet too, if and when they go electric.

Can't see any prospective ECML (or WCML) operators taking on redundant HSTs or IC225s but who's to say against a few trainsets to be retained?
[Aside from ScotRail receiving a number of HSTs, is VTEC still planning to retain some 225s?]

I was thinking more for future operations like their proposed Edinburgh to Kings Cross service.