It means 'with our complements' - i.e. free, but you aren't entitled to them. It's so that people can't complain if they aren't available. Okay, they will complain, but the complaint won't be successful.in the phrase 'complementary refreshments'?
in the phrase 'complementary refreshments'?
Which I personally dislike in the context of First Class fares, as the fares are set to take into account their provision.
It means 'with our complements' - i.e. free, but you aren't entitled to them. It's so that people can't complain if they aren't available. Okay, they will complain, but the complaint won't be successful.
I've had a customer complain about having to pay the same first class price when they didn't want to accept the complimentary refreshments and wondering why we don't have different price levels!
Well, you will need to take that one up with the DfT who have the ultimate decision on what rolling stock order goes to which TOC. Where commuter style stock is specified (with mid-carriage rather than carriage end doors) it constrains the placement of first class. Either you can have two small areas at either end (ala Scotrail's 170s) or you have a single larger pocket in the middle (as seen on FTPE's 185s).I don't like TOCs who don't offer complementary refreshments in their first class and also those who offer the same type of seating (e.g. LM or SN) and think these should just be standard throughout. I also don't like trains which have 1st class randomly put in the middle, rather then at the end of a carriage.
It would be pretty much the same today - it is one of the main benefits of paying by credit card, in the event of a dispute it is the card company that fights the battle, rather than the consumer.I am not sure how such a way of complaining through the credit card company would get on today though....
Well, you will need to take that one up with the DfT who have the ultimate decision on what rolling stock order goes to which TOC. Where commuter style stock is specified (with mid-carriage rather than carriage end doors) it constrains the placement of first class. Either you can have two small areas at either end (ala Scotrail's 170s) or you have a single larger pocket in the middle (as seen on FTPE's 185s).
Complimentary refreshments are indeed provided with the compliments of the company. Which doesn't mean that they are free, as said earlier the company will take this into account when setting fares.
I'm not sure I like the idea of complimentary food and drink. As well as people complaining about paying for someone they don't want, there's always confusion about what should be available at different times of day (Virgin EC and WC), what is available at all (FGW) , and how much of anything you should be allowed to have.
It's a far cry from the old days, when high quality, but [paid for, dining facilities were considered to be an essential part of the first class offering on key business trains. They were allowed to run at a loss in order to attract travellers who were willing to pay a higher fare to use these facilities. I prefer the old way!
Well, you will need to take that one up with the DfT who have the ultimate decision on what rolling stock order goes to which TOC. Where commuter style stock is specified (with mid-carriage rather than carriage end doors) it constrains the placement of first class. Either you can have two small areas at either end (ala Scotrail's 170s) or you have a single larger pocket in the middle (as seen on FTPE's 185s).
Seat type is usually an operator choice, they may be able to justify the higher cost by choose to have the same seat type but offering some additional amenity (e.g. power sockets on Scotrail's 158s) or it may simply be the higher probability of getting a seat in the first place.
It would be pretty much the same today - it is one of the main benefits of paying by credit card, in the event of a dispute it is the card company that fights the battle, rather than the consumer.
It's a far cry from the old days, when high quality, but [paid for, dining facilities were considered to be an essential part of the first class offering on key business trains. They were allowed to run at a loss in order to attract travellers who were willing to pay a higher fare to use these facilities. I prefer the old way!
Still can't believe someone agreed to allow plug sockets to be installed in a standard class carriage. Just a shame it didn't extend to the 450s but can't have everything.
Complimentary refreshments are indeed provided with the compliments of the company. Which doesn't mean that they are free, as said earlier theg company will take this into account when setting fares.
So if, say, EC decided to end complimentary food we could all expect their 1st class fares to reduce in price?
In railway terms, complimentary means that you pay for something, usually of limited choice, and are told - and then accept - that it is free. When it all goes wrong or standards fall (which invariably they do with anything complimentary), because you have been given the perception that its free, you're less likely to complain. Many fall for it every day. I would prefer to pay for a first class ticket and get nothing other than a more comfortable seat in a quiet carriage and perhaps a cup of tea and a biscuit, primarily because I still have the ability to walk into a shop and select my items of food of choice. If I wanted something more substantial I would choose something rather better than that provided by TOC's in their 'complimentary' offers.
As a rule of thumb, therefore, marketers should avoid describing elements that have formed part of a package for more than six months as “free”.
I can see that but that then begs the question why they were not installed in the 450s to tempt passengers away from cars.Such luxuries may be factors in making rail travel more attractive for those who also have access to a car. Although difficult to measure, I'm sure they may well attract passengers to Standard Class who wouldn't pay for First anyway.
So if, say, EC decided to end complimentary food we could all expect their 1st class fares to reduce in price?
And of course the main purpose is to be something other than 'included' so they can get away with not providing it and keeping the fare!It can't be free if it's included in the fare paid, because you have paid something. But you don't pay an extra charge, hence complimentary.
I personally would love more restaurant cars and if travelling I could make use of them. For example the travelling chef on First Great Western encouraged me to buy something because it was made on board. Had it been bought in I'd have not bothered until I reached my destination.
Southern's offering is definitely only about people guaranteeing a seat as they don't seem to have any power sockets in first class carriages. London Midland did the last time I travelled with them in first clsss. South West Trains, not a Govia company do and I don't know about South Eastern.
Refreshments that combine well with other ones you already have?
I guess you mean "complimentary", though, which basically means "free of additional charge but not guaranteed to be provided". Which I personally dislike in the context of First Class fares, as the fares are set to take into account their provision.
Complimentary refreshments are indeed provided with the compliments of the company. Which doesn't mean that they are free, as said earlier the company will take this into account when setting fares.
I'm not sure I like the idea of complimentary food and drink. As well as people complaining about paying for someone they don't want, there's always confusion about what should be available at different times of day (Virgin EC and WC), what is available at all (FGW) , and how much of anything you should be allowed to have.
It's a far cry from the old days, when high quality, but [paid for, dining facilities were considered to be an essential part of the first class offering on key business trains. They were allowed to run at a loss in order to attract travellers who were willing to pay a higher fare to use these facilities. I prefer the old way!
This is correct, and a case of people using similar sounding words but which have completely different meanings.Free refreshments are in a way both complimentary (with the compliments of the provider) and complementary (make the service complete).
No, they would increase as far fewer people would travel in first class, so they would have to make more money with less customers!
Which doesn't mean that they are free, as said earlier the company will take this into account when setting fares.