Grubby Thameslink 377s

[179Crystal]

First Capital Connect kept their 377s clean and shiny.
Since Thameslink have them they seem to have become dull and grubby.
Agree / yes or no?
Will the same happen to the 700s?

 

[Bishopstone]

First Capital Connect kept their 377s clean and shiny.
Since Thameslink have them they seem to have become dull and grubby.
Agree / yes or no?
Will the same happen to the 700s?

If we are talking about the exteriors, I thought FCC's examples were generally filthy, with ground-in dirt. Southern's seemed much better.

The 700s are white, which probably answers the second part of your question.

 

[AM9]

If we are talking about the exteriors, I thought FCC's examples were generally filthy, with ground-in dirt. Southern's seemed much better.

The 700s are white, which probably answers the second part of your question.

Is this an image issue creating an opportunity to save money on external cleaning? The Southern green and new white liveries are identifiable with Govia operations but the 377/5s procured during FCC's tenure are still unmistakenly showing First's colours despite their name removal.

 

[DarloRich]

Do they run? If so i don't care if they are dirty.

 

[asylumxl]

TL trains don't get much chance to be cleaned, regardless of who's in charge.

Having said that, Govia is ****. I was around for their first try and they have started where they left off.

 

[Skimble19]

Don't forget the 377/5s are coming over to the GN in a couple of years, so whilst I suspect they'll get repainted at some point I highly doubt they're deliberately being left a state.

 

[GatwickDepress]

No change really. The interiors have always been a little grubby under both First Capital Connect and Thameslink. The ones currently on hire to Southeastern are generally cleaner by virtue of them not being as intensively used.

Externally, the FCC vinyls are getting on a bit these days and it's likely they won't be repainted until they get cascaded over to wherever. I highly doubt it's part of a Govia conspiracy to sully First's name.

 

[westcoaster]

No change really. The interiors have always been a little grubby under both First Capital Connect and Thameslink. The ones currently on hire to Southeastern are generally cleaner by virtue of them not being as intensively used.

Externally, the FCC vinyls are getting on a bit these days and it's likely they won't be repainted until they get cascaded over to wherever. I highly doubt it's part of a Govia conspiracy to sully First's name.

The /5's are only half vinyl'd if you look close enough the vinyl only goes from sole bar to just under the passenger windows, from there up they are painted purple, so more than likely a paint warranty issue.

 

[MCR247]

First Capital Connect kept their 377s clean and shiny.
Since Thameslink have them they seem to have become dull and grubby.
Agree / yes or no?
Will the same happen to the 700s?

In my experience they looked just as bad under FCC, however not being from London I may have just been unlucky. The front of the trains (as with AGAs 379s) were always particularly bad

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've found the trains to be cleaner since GoVia took over, tbh.

 

[RichJF]

My usual train is an 8 car TL 377. i've found that when the green ex-Southern 377/2 units turn up they are quite a bit cleaner & nicer to travel in.

The earlier 377/5's are disgusting. 377 508 was awful the other day - bins broken, dirty windows, brown (unit front) yellow panels & ripped seats, graffiti on the inside.
The higher the number of unit I tend to find the better the quality.

 

[physics34]

any AC unit is gonna be quite dirty due to the carbon and dirt from the OHLs. Its just how often do they get deep cleaned. I dont believe normal carriage washes get rid of this easily.

The 377/5s are a bit grim. The southern interior colour scheme doesnt help. The black carpets look warn out quickly as do the astroturf seat covers.

This explains why BR didnt have carpeting on semi fast stock and used a dark grey lino which camoflaged dirt, not light grey or black carpet... or even dark blue or light lino which the southern 455s have.

Why is this so difficult to understand for train designers.

 

[Class377/5]

First Capital Connect kept their 377's clean and shiny.
Since Thameslink have them they seem to have become dull and grubby.
Agree / yes or no?
Will the same happen to the 700's?

To the 700s, it'll be a completely different deal as units coming from Three Bridges and (Thameslink) Hornsey depots will be cleaned by Siemens as part of the contract. Thoses coming from sidings where there is no cleaning facilities won't be as clean of course. But Siemens is being paid to provide clean working trains every morning unlike today's arrangement.

 

[Fincra5]

I often see 377s and 387's going through the wash on the old Brighton Up Goods Loop. TL trains are very intensively used so dirt will build up and taking a train out to fix things like bins has to be booked in i'd imagine.

But yes they are cleaned by the train wash, don't know about the ones stabled north of the river though!

 

[Class377/5]

One thing to remember is Thameslink stock does roughly 50% more miles than Southern stock on a daily basis with Southern high millage diagrams being average for Thameslink. That had an effect.

 

[DY444]

Totally disagree with the OP. The 377/5s were absolutely filthy in FCC days as indeed were the 319s

 

[D365]

One thing to remember is Thameslink stock does roughly 50% more miles than Southern stock on a daily basis with Southern high millage diagrams being average for Thameslink. That had an effect.

Could Southern get higher utilisation out of their existing stock? Not to the same extent as with Thameslink perhaps, but seeing as they won't be getting most of the 377/5s back, and as it seems they might have to give up some more 377s to the St Pancras-Corby as well as to the South East franchise.

 

[Class377/5]

Could Southern get higher utilisation out of their existing stock? Not to the same extent as with Thameslink perhaps, but seeing as they won't be getting most of the 377/5s back, and as it seems they might have to give up some more 377s to the St Pancras-Corby as well as to the South East franchise.

There are no plans to send any 377s to Corby route. Don't forget that post the 25x 377s leaving for SE, GTR is already planning to use the 377 fleet much harder including more units the Metro to allow the 455s to work less intensively.

 

[swt_passenger]

There are no plans to send any 377s to Corby route.

Clearly none left. So as has been discussed in earlier threads, NR had to plan for something even if it is subsequently not available, so they design for a particular type of EMU operation, in terms of line speed, train length, numbers of pantographs, power requirements etc; any statements in route studies and the like should really be read with an implied 'or similar type of train' on the end...

Something like "Corby route to be AC electrified for use by 4 car 20m EMUs running in multiple up to 12 car length, line speed up to 100mph". This would translate as "Corby route to be electrified for operations by Class 377 or similar."

 

[Fincra5]

There are no plans to send any 377s to Corby route. Don't forget that post the 25x 377s leaving for SE, GTR is already planning to use the 377 fleet much harder including more units the Metro to allow the 455s to work less intensively.

Are 455's quite unreliable atm? 455's seem fit for metro stuff. What replaces the 25x 377/1(?)s for SE?

 

[ert47]

Are 455's quite unreliable atm? 455's seem fit for metro stuff. What replaces the 25x 377/1(?)s for SE?

Hazard a guess, Southern operated services that'll be replaced by Thameslinks 700s (TATs/CATs/Horshams/Grinnys etc.) and the return of the 377/2s? (if they are coming back)

 

[D365]

Hazard a guess, Southern operated services that'll be replaced by Thameslinks 700s (TATs/CATs/Horshams/Grinnys etc.) and the return of the 377/2s? (if they are coming back)

From what I heard, the returning Class 377/2s (and four Class 377/5?) are destined to to extend South Croydon-Milton Keynes Central services to 8-car formation with the 5-car 377/7s cascaded to work metro routes alongside the 377/6.

 

[Class377/5]

Are 455's quite unreliable atm? 455's seem fit for metro stuff. What replaces the 25x 377/1(?)s for SE?

Its not about the belief they are unreliable but the truth that as units get older start to fall more so the plan is to lower the work to ensure the units can complete thier booked work.

From what I heard, the returning Class 377/2s (and four Class 377/5?) are destined to to extend South Croydon-Milton Keynes Central services to 8-car formation with the 5-car 377/7s cascaded to work metro routes alongside the 377/6.

There hasn't been much said about additional 8 cars in GTR documents. But the idea is 12 cars on mainline and 10 cars on most of the Metro. Tulse Hill routes should generally be 8 cars.

 

[physics34]

i guess the 455s will continue all day on the London Bridge to Beckenham/West Croydon/Epsom (via Streatham)/Wimbledon, but virtually everything else will be 377s.

I can't see why southern would want to keep 46x4 car units taking up space doing less work. Southern are renowned for squeezing every last ounce out of stock.