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Teenagers are choosing to study over Saturday jobs, new report suggests

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yorkie

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...-study-over-saturday-jobs-new-report-suggests

Quite a long article, so I've selectively chosen this part to quote (my emphasis):
"When we look at employing people full-time, we need rounded CVs," says Helen Webb, HR Director at the retailer Co-op.

"We look for graduates who haven't just got a fabulous degree, we look for A-Level students who haven't just got great results, we need rounded people coming to work in our industry."

She says one of the best ways to get the broad experience so many employers are looking for, is to get part-time work while studying.

"I would always say to a young person, work experience is really important," she explains.

"If an employer has to make a decision, to choose who to take on, then they will be looking for people who've experienced the workplace and understand what responsibilities that brings."
I agree with this. I think there is too much pressure put on young people to simply get good grades, but the reality is - providing the person has adequate grades - employers actually want well-rounded people who are effective communicators and who can actually get things done in the real world.

I also strongly believe it's important to have time for leisure activities (especially those that involve sport or some other physical activity, to remain healthy) and not just study/work.

After I got my first job, I found that employers were much more interested in my experiences and what I had to say than what qualifications I had.

Anyone agree? or disagree?
 
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Yorkie, applicants who have done a degree course and have got anything less than a 2:1 are simply not considered by the organisation I work for. That said not all the roles within our organisation require require people to have a degree. And I'm afraid that goes for a lot of other organisations too.

For many years previous to my current job I worked as a currency trader (yes I know, shock horror etc). When I first started a fair few traders didn't have a degree but did have a strong head for figures and the ability to make rational decisions quickly. Sadly now its graduates only, again with nothing less than a 2:1.

However in the example that you have quoted its easy to understand why the Co-op and indeed other retailers would be looking for applicants with some experience of retail, even if its just a few hours a week in a corner shop. People who apply for jobs in call centres are also often asked if they have any experience of retail.
 
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cb a1

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For the company I work for, qualifications are only half the story. They get the key unlocked. To open the door needs something more. Being invited in depends on the interview. There are limited opportunities for non-graduates, but generally you'll need a degree as you're expected to work towards becoming a Chartered Engineer* (or equivalent).

*I think you can do this via routes which do not include a degree.

Getting to the interview does depend on being more than just exam-fodder. The interview itself is about seeing whether this is a person we want to spend 7.5 hours a day with. I've seen CVs with excellent exam results but with no substance to the person; you want to see things like 'took part in school this or that, Scouts this or that, etc.'. I'm not talking about being 'head boy of the school or winner of Scout of the year award', it's about taking part in things, basically being an interesting person.
 

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That was a rather interesting read!

I've worked since I was 15, and think the experience was invaluable, in terms of developing skills and beginning to build a CV. I was always one for flying by the seat of my pants through School/College and still am with my degree ... but so far my grades haven't suffered (there's time yet :lol:)

I'll admit I landed on my feet with my current job, and am now doing something challenging and which I geniuenly enjoy - I worked full time through my first two years of uni and intend to do the same when I go back to complete my degree, this being in an 'office' job for a mainline TOC (not you're average 'Saturday job'!). Thanfully my employer are keen to develop me, are flexible, and have given me some great opportunities, but that's all off the back of making a good impression during work experience in Year 10 at Secondary School. My degree is transport-related, and a lot of my group are set to come out with good grades, but I'm hoping I'll have the edge in having a number of years of good experience in a role with actual operational involvement - rather than jsut theory.

I must confess I hate my degree ... having been involved in the industry for a while now there is nothing worse than listening to lectures from academics who don't have a proper understanding of how anything functions ... but you never know when that bit of paper might come in handy!

And besides all that, what about money?! The thought of sponging off my parents (even if there was cash to spare) feels wrong to me, and I get much more enjoyment from splashing the cash when I can see that my hard work has paid for it. A fair few of my School/College friends didn't work for the reasons given in the article, but were always surprised I had money to spend; realising that nothing in life is for free is always good as well ;)

I'd say give it a go - don't give up - and that you won't know real stress until you get into the working world. Any exam I've ever sat comes nowhere near close to comparing to some of my experiences dealing with passengers and trains. Even if it's only a few hours a week it looks good for future applications and is a bit of spending money :)
 

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I agree with Helen Webb. Youngsters should not focus so much on studying. They need to gain some life experiences to stand a chance in the job market these days. Some of the most impressive CV's and applications I ever read were from those people who had done Saturday jobs, and held a variety of part time jobs during their working life, which gave them a broad range of experiences.

Every role is different, naturally, but in my workplace once you had two or more candidates with the same qualifications, experience won out every time.
 

Nevillehill

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...-study-over-saturday-jobs-new-report-suggests

Quite a long article, so I've selectively chosen this part to quote (my emphasis):
I agree with this. I think there is too much pressure put on young people to simply get good grades, but the reality is - providing the person has adequate grades - employers actually want well-rounded people who are effective communicators and who can actually get things done in the real world.

I also strongly believe it's important to have time for leisure activities (especially those that involve sport or some other physical activity, to remain healthy) and not just study/work.

After I got my first job, I found that employers were much more interested in my experiences and what I had to say than what qualifications I had.

Anyone agree? or disagree?
When I got my job on the railway at the interview they asked what can I bring to the role, so I said skill I've gained whils working on a heritage railway, the interviewer said that's a change, some candidates real off how many certificates they've got, it's all about practical skills.

Experience is the best way in this game.
 

Bletchleyite

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I agree with Helen Webb. Youngsters should not focus so much on studying.

Bit of both there, I'd say - I don't think it's great that people have to work long hours *and* study as some students do, but I equally think vocational education should have a far bigger role here (e.g. apprenticeships and years in industry) than they do.
 

Greenback

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Bit of both there, I'd say - I don't think it's great that people have to work long hours *and* study as some students do, but I equally think vocational education should have a far bigger role here (e.g. apprenticeships and years in industry) than they do.

I agree. I had a few jobs when I was a student. I worked as a cleaner, as a temporary postal worker and I did the usual bar work. Finally, towards the end of the course I got a part time position in the station ticket office. I never worked more than 16 hours in a week during term time, though.

There isn't enough emphasis of vocational education in my opinion.
 

Bletchleyite

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There isn't enough emphasis of vocational education in my opinion.

Despite having taken an academic path I definitely agree, and I know a few people who have made big successes of apprenticeships. I think we would do well to look at how Germany does things, where "eine Ausbildung" isn't looked down on at all, and university is for study rather than for life experiences.
 

MCR247

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With exams getting so much easier I'm surprised young people aren't working more since they can do less studying and still get better grades :D :roll:

I agree about apprenticeships though. Too many people feel like they have to do A-Levels even though they really aren't suited to them. Only after wasting a year or two of their life do they start an apprenticeship. Its a sad thing to see people upset on AS results day as if their life is over when an apprenticeship would've been a better option for them after leaving school
 
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It's difficult to strike the right balance. I'm still at University and I've had a few part-time positions and done bits of work experience since school. Sometimes around Christmas when I was working in retail, I knew that my exam grades were slipping due to the long hours I was working.

Having said that, it is important to have real-life experience on your CV. So many of my fellow students seem to live in a bubble and they have a limited appreciation of the world of all types of work outside the academic sphere.

Despite having taken an academic path I definitely agree, and I know a few people who have made big successes of apprenticeships. I think we would do well to look at how Germany does things, where "eine Ausbildung" isn't looked down on at all, and university is for study rather than for life experiences.

I don't think the German system would work these days in the UK, it relies on streaming kids rather young in different type of schools. Many aspects of it are very good and it helps keep youth in work while training them up - it works especially well in the economically strong Länder.

A good friend of mine wasn't good enough at 11 to go to Grammar School and was therefore lead through a General School to an apprenticeship which he hated. He has gone back to school at 24 (!) to get his Abitur (A-Levels) and he's by no means alone! There's quite a few students at my University who took the same path, meaning that they graduate at 30+ years old.

Also, they take practical qualifications to new levels, working in a supermarket one does an apprenticeship - you seemingly need a qualification to do anything! You also need a Masters degree to gain many entry level positions at 'top' firms - which can take up to 7+ years of study.
 
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Bletchleyite

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I don't think the German system would work these days in the UK, it relies on streaming kids rather young in different type of schools. Elements of it are good and help keep youth in work training them up, it works well in the economically strong Länder.

Fair point. Perhaps an adapted version might work, though.

A good friend of mine wasn't good enough at 11 to go to Grammar School and was therefore lead through a General School to an apprenticeship which he hated. He has gone back to school at 24 (!) to get his Abitur (A-Levels) and he's by no means alone!

That does happen here. My Dad left school with nothing other than a CSE in Woodwork and ended up catching back up (to being a bank manager in the days when bank managers actually had a lot more to manage) by way of night school.

Also, they take practical qualifications to new levels, working in a supermarket one does an apprenticeship - you seemingly need a qualification to do anything!

And why not? One big benefit of this setup is that more "entry level" jobs gain the respect they deserve rather than being looked down upon.

You also need a Masters degree to gain many entry level positions at 'top' firms - which can take up to 7+ years of study.

If the number of young people doing Bachelors degrees continues to increase in the UK I can see us ending up there as well; there has to be a differentiator.
 

WestCoast

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That does happen here. My Dad left school with nothing other than a CSE in Woodwork and ended up catching back up (to being a bank manager in the days when bank managers actually had a lot more to manage) by way of night school.

Oh absolutely, but it is the large number of students taking that path here which surprised me. It has to be done on at least a committed part-time basis I believe (say three days a week). I just think that maybe if some were given a little more chance to mature academically, they could have gone the academic route if they wanted to. I'd be interested to hear what teachers think of streaming kids into schools young.

And why not? One big benefit of this setup is that more "entry level" jobs gain the respect they deserve rather than being looked down upon

True and I am by no means demeaning those in such positions, I myself have worked in a supermarket and it can be as challenging as any other position. It's just that it is a rather rigid system which for me seems to be less appreciative of "transferable skills". However, it does indeed offer important training and progression for those who want to commit to a profession. I can't see UK employers in such fields taking to it for all employees though.

If the number of young people doing Bachelors degrees continues to increase in the UK I can see us ending up there as well; there has to be a differentiator.

It's OK in a country where student fees are negligible, but I fear the worst for such a requirement in the UK. Perhaps the 'perceived' standard of University attended will be taken even more into consideration?
 
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yorksrob

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There was a very good column in the Times along the lines that employers seem to want to have their cake and eat it nowadays.

They won't touch anyone with less than a 2:1, they want someone with work experience, oh and if they've had a gap year teaching English somewhere that would be good. Is it any wonder that students have to prioritise their time.

For me, I found my Saturday and holiday jobs invaluable - primarily for the money and financial independence they gave me. I managed to save some for University, which in turn meant that I didn't have to take out the full loan in the first year which meant I paid it back earlier, so it was worthwhile.
 

CC 72100

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After I got my first job, I found that employers were much more interested in my experiences and what I had to say than what qualifications I had.

Anyone agree? or disagree?

Wholeheartedly agree. I had a Saturday job at 17 for my A2 year, then worked part time throughout my second and final years of university. Between year 2 and the final year I was working abroad, and then worked between the end of the time abroad and starting final year.

I can safely say however that the first job at 17, while not particularly exciting or challenging in most aspects, was key to getting any of the later positions. I see people coming out of university who have never worked a day in their life as the parents have funded it all. While my work was primarily for a bit of spending money, these people are likely to struggle without any previous experience.

Originally posted by WestCoast

It's difficult to strike the right balance. I'm still at University and I've had a few part-time positions and done bits of work experience since school. Sometimes around Christmas when I was working in retail, I knew that my exam grades were slipping due to the long hours I was working.

Nail hit on head. I'll be graduating with a first, but I was lucky in that my employer during uni has been the students' union, which means that they're very understanding when it comes to working around timetables and busy periods!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There was a very good column in the Times along the lines that employers seem to want to have their cake and eat it nowadays.

Well you can be picky when there is an abundant supply of people graduating from university. :|

Bet yes, a good degree alone is not enough.
 

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Again, another article placing all the blame on teenagers, or at a push schools and colleges.:roll:

Would anyone here be prepared to work for £4 an hour until 3am, after being at college since 9am, and having to be back at college for 9am? If not you've basically answered why teenagers aren't working as this is most of the work available.
I am not saying all employers are like this, but the ones that hire 16/17 year olds that aren't get way too many applications, meaning anyone that hasn't done the above type of work won't have a chance at them jobs.
 

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Again, another article placing all the blame on teenagers, or at a push schools and colleges.:roll:

Would anyone here be prepared to work for £4 an hour until 3am, after being at college since 9am, and having to be back at college for 9am? If not you've basically answered why teenagers aren't working as this is most of the work available.
I am not saying all employers are like this, but the ones that hire 16/17 year olds that aren't get way too many applications, meaning anyone that hasn't done the above type of work won't have a chance at them jobs.

You can't let teenagers get a good press. They may even feel appreciated :o

Saturday jobs still don't address the catch 22 issue. It wouldn't surprise me that teenagers aren't working because they can't compete with someone who has worked in the sector for years and needs the hours to put food on the table
 

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Employers are trying to have their cake and eat it, and then blame the teenagers for it when it doesn't happen. Employers demand excellent academic results- many graduate schemes don't just sift on degree classification these days, they also regularly use UCAS tariff points- and then act all surprised when applicants are not "well rounded".

The simple fact of the matter is that if your Saturday job stops you getting the stellar A grades at A'Level, and stops you getting the 1st or high 2:1, then you can kiss goodbye to getting a decent graduate role. For all the wittering about how employers want "well rounded" applicants, if you have a 2:2 your CV goes in the bin regardless of your extra-curricular experience.

There is also the question of whether there is the work about. We recruited for a new part-time temporary receptionist last week and received 75 applications for two positions. We gave the positions to people who had the experience.
 

yorkie

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There is also the question of whether there is the work about. We recruited for a new part-time temporary receptionist last week and received 75 applications for two positions. We gave the positions to people who had the experience.
They both had at least 2:1 degrees?
 

MCR247

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Again, another article placing all the blame on teenagers, or at a push schools and colleges.:roll:

Would anyone here be prepared to work for £4 an hour until 3am, after being at college since 9am, and having to be back at college for 9am? If not you've basically answered why teenagers aren't working as this is most of the work available.
I am not saying all employers are like this, but the ones that hire 16/17 year olds that aren't get way too many applications, meaning anyone that hasn't done the above type of work won't have a chance at them jobs.

Very well put :)

I was fairly lucky as I was able to get a job at 16 paying minimum wage for adults (the firm couldn't be arsed to be paying people different wages etc - who am I to complain :p) for an agency. Whilst it was a zero hours contract in effect, it was what I was looking for as a I could choose the jobs I wanted to work based on how much work needed to be for my AS levels. It also gave me experience in retail and hospitality
 

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They both had at least 2:1 degrees?

One of them had a Masters.

We weren't grading on academic performance, we wanted a receptionist who would be good to our students. My point is more that competition for jobs is so fierce at the moment that the 17 year old isn't going to get a look in at a Saturday job because there will be adults competing for those jobs.
 

me123

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I may have gone down a very academic path, but I can honestly say that working at the weekends in the retail sector whilst I was at University was one of the best things I could have done.

It hasn't benefited my CV at all - it's a mere footnote that I'm sure potential employers gloss over in my particular situation (although that won't be true for everyone).

But I learned a lot working in a supermarket and petrol station. I learned to deal with the public. I learned lots of basic life skills. I learned about working as part of a team. I learned how to navigate the maze that is HR. I learned about the value of the money I earned, which helped me support myself to some extent whilst at Uni. I was also able to buy myself some nicer things. I did have to sacrifice quite a lot. Working 4-9pm on Saturday nights isn't much fun, and I could think of quite a few places I'd rather be than a petrol station, but that's the kind of sacrifice I'm still regularly making now. I did eventually have to quit due to uni demands, earlier than I would have liked to be the case, but I don't regret any of it.

However, I appreciate that I was also very lucky to get this job. I had an employer that was happy to hire students, who would work at the weekends, evenings and during the holiday times. It worked well to complement their full time staff, who were able to enjoy more Mon-Fri 9-5 working. They appreciated that I was studying, and kept my hours down around my exams. Not all are as lucky. I know of plenty of students whose employers would demand unreasonable hours of their student employees (e.g. you need to work 9-5 on Monday, I don't care that you've got classes all day), and in these instances they've had to leave because what they thought was going to be a weekend job turned into 20 hours during the day.

And, as has been said, the availability of jobs for students is variable. I was employed before the recession hit, and very few people were employed after I started working (Christmas temp staff only from what I can remember, although a few of them were offered longer term contracts). Although student staff are good for many businesses, they do come with terms attached. They will want you to respect the fact that they are students, and need to attend class and study for exams. They will be temporary. They won't have an extensive employment history. As such I think lots of employers would rather hire a couple of full time staff (who can commit to working just about any time) than a small collection of students with all these issues, who will be gone in a few years anyway.

Pressures in education are getting higher all the time. It's becoming more competitive to get to the Uni you want, and more competitive thereafter to get the job you want. As such, getting straight As/A*s/a first class honours degree is now seen as the minimum for so many things, that it's not surprising that so many young people don't think that they can do both. Sadly, they are going to be jeopardising their chances by not having the work experience. I really feel for these students - capable young minds who are trapped between a rock and a hard place.
 

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Some youngsters lack life skills

Some find cashing up and working out how much money to take out takings to make a £100 float way too challenging, even for someone with straight As at A-level.

Some employers like student employees as they can get away with paying them a smaller wage than a 21+, and in a low-margin environment those savings can soon add up.

Sadly with the push to get more and more people to university, to undertake (sometimes silly) degrees, means some students are sent out into the wide world with no work experience, expecting to work into a well paying job with their degree in "Media Studies"
 

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Well you can be picky when there is an abundant supply of people graduating from university. :|

Bet yes, a good degree alone is not enough.

Well, my point is that employers seem to demand a lot and there's a limited amount of time (and money - particularly for things such as gap years) in which to achieve all of these things.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Again, another article placing all the blame on teenagers, or at a push schools and colleges.:roll:

Indeed. How many times have we heard employers complaining about the standard of degrees etc. They should stop whining to Radio 4 and provide some training.
 
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The simple fact of the matter is that if your Saturday job stops you getting the stellar A grades at A'Level, and stops you getting the 1st or high 2:1, then you can kiss goodbye to getting a decent graduate role.

You could try to work for 2 years and get A*s at A Level. It's probably not worth the risk of the mental health problems though!

For me, I found my Saturday and holiday jobs invaluable - primarily for the money and financial independence they gave me. I managed to save some for University, which in turn meant that I didn't have to take out the full loan in the first year which meant I paid it back earlier, so it was worthwhile.

I'm imagining how long it would take to save up £9000 now! 2 years at least!

I've found that stress is one of the main reasons why I wouldn't want to get a job. If I can't try and forget about being fed up all week at University come the weekend, I've no chance of getting anything done at all during term time. Not that my spectacularly unsuccessful attempt to get a work placement makes it look like I'm going anywhere on this front anyway!

The lesson from this is that graduating when you're 20 is a bad idea. Especially if you get a third!
 
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yorksrob

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I'm imagining how long it would take to save up £9000 now! 2 years at least!

I've found that stress is one of the main reasons why I wouldn't want to get a job. If I can't try and forget about being fed up all week at University come the weekend, I've no chance of getting anything done at all during term time. Not that my spectacularly unsuccessful attempt to get a work placement makes it look like I'm going anywhere on this front anyway!

Indeed. This was before the privately educated Establishment destroyed equality of access to higher education for working class people.
 

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If I can't try and forget about being fed up all week at University come the weekend, I've no chance of getting anything done at all during term time.

Most people aren't "fed up all week at University" - for some it's the best time of their lives. I don't like to write off the rest of my life, but it was a great time for me (school much less so).

Perhaps you're on the wrong course and should consider a change, or even perhaps a vocational path (there's one particular one I guess this forum might advocate :) ) would suit you better?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Indeed. This was before the privately educated Establishment destroyed equality of access to higher education for working class people.

I don't agree with this. Tuition fees are in any meaningful sense a graduate tax not needing to be paid up front, and more people than ever are going to university. I would rather it was free, but it would have to come with a heavy cut to the numbers going, back to the numbers of the 1990s.

People may go "I don't want the debt", but there is no reason that should put off any specific income bracket, and in any case it is not debt in any meaningful sense as if you stop earning, you stop paying. It's a capped graduate tax in everything but name.

The old mortgage-style student loans were debt, but the interest rate was so low that you'd be stupid not to take the full loan and shove it in a bank account with an equivalent interest rate just in case you need it.
 
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Starmill

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Most people aren't "fed up all week at University" - for some it's the best time of their lives. I don't like to write off the rest of my life, but it was a great time for me (school much less so).

Perhaps you're on the wrong course and should consider a change, or even perhaps a vocational path (there's one particular one I guess this forum might advocate :) ) would suit you better?

I'm afraid the post you wrote below this demonstrates where you miss the point. I'm £18,000 invested in this now, no way can I change it and do another 2 years. There's pressure to make sure you get it right first time and go to University quickly after you leave college. At £9k a year, there are no second chances. Surely you see that?

And if you're right abd it is a graduate tax 'in all but name' - why is it not in actual name if that's so good?
 
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yorkie

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Indeed. This was before the privately educated Establishment destroyed equality of access to higher education for working class people.
I don't see how that is the case? If they never earn above the threshold, thus remaining "working class" (if you want to call it that), they'll never pay the loan back!
 

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I don't agree with this. Tuition fees are in any meaningful sense a graduate tax not needing to be paid up front, and more people than ever are going to university. I would rather it was free, but it would have to come with a heavy cut to the numbers going, back to the numbers of the 1990s.

People may go "I don't want the debt", but there is no reason that should put off any specific income bracket, and in any case it is not debt in any meaningful sense as if you stop earning, you stop paying. It's a capped graduate tax in everything but name.

The old mortgage-style student loans were debt, but the interest rate was so low that you'd be stupid not to take the full loan and shove it in a bank account with an equivalent interest rate just in case you need it.

Well said.

It's often claimed that the £9k a year puts many people off university, but who is going to disagree with £27k of debt but suddenly be ok with £20k?
 
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