North Wales Rover

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Please can someone clarify the validity of this one day ticket.

Nationa Rail Enquries suggest it is valid from Bidston (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/promotions/North_Wales_Rover.pdf) whilst Arriva Wales' website suggests it is not (http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/ExploreWales/NorthWalesRover/)

Have tried Arriva Train Wales'Customer Services'. 2 day wait gets me a reference number with a promise of a reply within 12 days! Planning on travelling this Saturday.

 

[bb21]

Print out the National Rail Enquiries map and bring it with you.

 

[Merseysider]

I had the exact same issue at the end of last year. NRE map said valid, and was accepted without question from Bidston down to Shotton. Then in the evening, a guard took exception to it on the way up to Bidston. I pulled up the map on my phone and he grumbled for a minute and left it. I queried ATW about this via email who said that the map on their website doesn't include Bidston so it isn't valid to Bidston but they're not going to change the NRE map as they're not in a position to do so. Good luck

 

[Olympian]

North Wales Rover leaflet also shows it being valid on rail between Shotton and Bidston.

http://www.taith.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/10pp-North-Wales-Rover-lft.pdf

 

[supervalkoinen]

North Wales Rover leaflet also shows it being valid on rail between Shotton and Bidston.

http://www.taith.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/10pp-North-Wales-Rover-lft.pdf

The leaflet and website also show a 2-zone ticket as valid for Zones D and W, but Arriva TW still flatly refuse to sell it at Chester station.

 

[kieron]

Arriva Wales' website suggests it is not (http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/ExploreWales/NorthWalesRover/)

It's not the clearest page, but the map does clearly show the pass as being valid between Shotton and Bidston.

The leaflet is better, though, as that makes it clear that any pass which covers Flintshire is valid on that line.

The leaflet and website also show a 2-zone ticket as valid for Zones D and W, but Arriva TW still flatly refuse to sell it at Chester station.

Were you at least able to buy a ticket to Wrexham and excess it to a Rover on board?

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Thanks for the advice on this.

Tried to buy the Rover at Bidston, but he ticket office told me to buy on the train as the office machine always gets it wrong! Boarded the train and the guard issued it without any problem.

 

[oddiesjack]

On the Arriva Trains website page for this ticket, at

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/ExploreWales/TicketList/
at one point it says :

We also have a number of Rovers and Ranger tickets*, which all offer unlimited train travel for one day on specific areas of the Arriva Trains Wales network. You can purchase the Rovers and Rangers tickets from the station booking office or on board the train.

*Rovers and Rangers tickets do not include travel on scheduled bus services.

further down however, it says:

North Wales Rover is an excellent value ticket that is being used by increasing numbers of people travelling by bus and train around North Wales. You can buy the ticket for 2, 3 or all zones.

(My emphasis)

So ATW, which is it, bus or no bus?

 

[bb21]

The North Wales Rover ticket includes bus journeys on participating operators in your chosen zones.

 

[oddiesjack]

Exactly BB21, so why on earth would ATW say

*Rovers and Rangers tickets do not include travel on scheduled bus services.

?

And, whilst I am on the subject, what would your opinion be on the price of a Caernarfon-Blaenau Ffestiniog journey on the WHR and FR for someone aged 64½ with a Senior Railcard?

 

[bb21]

I think that was just a general comment in respect of Rovers and Rangers. This product offers more than the general validity. I do not think it is a purely railway product. I think it was the result of coordination with input from the local councils.

As for the WHR and FR, two singles even at Concession rate add up to £34.70, and it is not clear whether they meant over-60 or over-65.

I say join the Ffestiniog Railway Society at £26, and you will get free travel on the FR and priv travel on WHR (£8.20 for a single for the whole route). Next year you will be able to join for just £22.

 

[oddiesjack]

BB21,

Sorry, I didn't make it clear that I'd be travelling on a NW Rover. As I see it, I'd have to pay £16 for that trip, as long as I had an all-zones rover.

This is why (para below and to the right of the inset picture of the bus :
http://www.taith.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/10pp-North-Wales-Rover-lft.pdf

However, identifying this discount is not easy on the ATW site - it describes it as a discount for "Explore Wales" tickets. I have not been able to find anything about it on the Festiniog Railway website either.

I emailed the FR about this and got this reply:

To be eligible for a concessionary ticket you must be aged 65 or over. I believe this is a different requirement to a Senior Railcard, which we do not accept.


The Snowdonia single ticket (the combined through ticket) prices are calculated through a somewhat complicated formula by our ticketing system which I have to admit I do not fully understand. However with the North Wales Rover (all zones) ticket the Snowdonia Single is £18 for an adult or £16.20 for a concession.


I hope this helps.

The trouble with this is that I can't reconcile the fares quoted with the Snowdonia Single fare specified on their website:

Snowdonia Single'
One-way travel over the whole length
of both railways from Blaenau Ffestiniog
to Caernarfon or vice-versa.
Adult £32.00
Concession £28

 

[bb21]

Hmm, information on that does seem a bit patchy.

The leaflet you linked to should be good enough as it was correct as of the beginning of 2015 and I doubt things would have changed since then. I also found this article from 2011 which suggests to me that the discount has been in existence for a while, so staff should be aware of it. Maybe the discount is slightly less than 50% now, although only they can tell you why. It is also possible that the person who emailed you make an error somewhere.

The Manual also makes a passing comment on this but only "discount available" without saying what it is.

 

[30907]

I've used WHR and FR with a NW all-zone Rover plus Senior railcard.

I expected from the leaflet to pay half the "ordinary" single fare on each, and that happened each time.

I've not tried to do both lines in one day but I would have expected to pay half the sum of the two ordinary fares, so £19.20 single.

This is slightly more than the price quoted by FR/WHR above, but they could reasonably claim that the Snowdonia Single isn't an "ordinary" fare.

 

[Andrew99]

On the Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland Railways, the All Zone North Wales Rover currently gives a 50% discount on ordinary third class fares. The Snowdonia Single isn't classed as an ordinary fare, but has discounted prices for holders of this rover of £18 for Adults and £16.20 for Seniors. Seniors are those over 65. (At least, that's what my fare table and ticketing instructions say, and seems to match your e-mail reply).

For what it's worth, students with NUS cards and registered disabled qualify for the same fare as seniors.

 

[Ianigsy]

I think the issue is that the map on the ATW site (and which is presumably what ATW give their staff) is missing the wording which says that bus and rail routes shown outside the zonal boundaries are included in the availability for the adjacent zone. In the last couple of years I've definitely seen posters for the North Wales Rover on the underground stations in Liverpool so it was presumably being targeted at Merseysiders with the intention of using Bidston-Shotton.

It'd be interesting to know what the railcard discount on the three zone ticket amounts to and how it compares with a Heswall-Wrexham return by train and Wrexham-Llangollen return by bus, as my parents (both Senior railcard holders) like to go from Birkenhead to Llangollen a couple of times a year and their Merseytravel passes give them free travel to Heswall but they have to buy full fare returns on the bus in Wales.

 

[krus_aragon]

It'd be interesting to know what the railcard discount on the three zone ticket amounts to and how it compares with a Heswall-Wrexham return by train and Wrexham-Llangollen return by bus, as my parents (both Senior railcard holders) like to go from Birkenhead to Llangollen a couple of times a year and their Merseytravel passes give them free travel to Heswall but they have to buy full fare returns on the bus in Wales.

Railcard discounts are no longer offered on the two- and three-zone tickets, onlt the all-zone ticket. I can't recall when this change occurred, but it was at least two years ago.

 

[oddiesjack]

On the Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland Railways, the All Zone North Wales Rover currently gives a 50% discount on ordinary third class fares. The Snowdonia Single isn't classed as an ordinary fare, but has discounted prices for holders of this rover of £18 for Adults and £16.20 for Seniors. Seniors are those over 65. (At least, that's what my fare table and ticketing instructions say, and seems to match your e-mail reply).

For what it's worth, students with NUS cards and registered disabled qualify for the same fare as seniors.

Thank you very much for such a succinct and informative posting.