A lot of people seem to be assuming that the 442's will ends up going north, yet word seems to be that all the TPX bidders have proposed some form of Bi-mode solution.
Assuming the 18 Class 442s will be rewired for the purpose originally suggested, presumably to AAR specification for either Class 67 or 68 haulage - locomotives which are available immediately - surely the existing driving vehicles will suffice for control cabs.
Would that result in a situation similar to dragged Pendolinos where a second driver has to sit in the cab of the Pendolino, despite a driver being in the locomotive hauling the Pendolino?
A lot of people seem to be assuming that the 442's will ends up going north, yet word seems to be that all the TPX bidders have proposed some form of Bi-mode solution.
I'm not - TPE provides the premium balancing services to the Northern value services - of course, it's much more complex than that. Ageing 442's with a loco at one end isn't going to meet that expectation in the franchise.
Another order of the currently popular but unproven AT300's is possible for the Scotland/Newcastle services, but does Hitachi have the capacity and more importantly would the end doors work on the busy sections after the mid-door successes ? It's clear diesel power is needed, so there's the question of looking at 125-140mph options to work better on EC/WC or to look at where the core issues on the M62 corridor. I'm still not convinced that a diesel under the floor cannot be done, order enough and someone will do it. It's wide open as far as I see it, with Aventra, ATx00, Desiro City, Civity, leading the way vs numerous unknowns
Maybe there will be a diesel equivalent of the Verve. That would be a worthy successor to the 185s, a bit faster, 1/3, 2/3 double doors, 23m length coaches, possibly a new replacement for the Desiro worldwide.
Taking the "pause" at face value I'd expect either TPE to carry on with 185s with a few more Turbostars from somewhere, or a small fleet of bi-modes just for the Scotland and Newcastle routes where there is significant running under the wires. When the TP electrification is eventually completed these could move to South Transpennine or other routes that remain unelectrified.
The TPE ITT explicitly forbids bidders from taking on Class 17x units as these are 'supposed' to go to the Northern franchise, as an option for fulfilment of the 'Regional Express' criteria. The options for TPE bidders are new-build or Class 442 loco-hauled as we have discussed.
While TPE bidders weren`t allowed to propose taking on released 15xs and 17xs, there is a reference in the ITT about bidders to presume they will receive temporary replacements for the 4 remaining 170s. Maybe a loan of 170s from another operator?
Would it not make sense to use the rebuilt class 73's as these are compatible with 442's, as far as Im aware. All obsolete equipment could be stripped to remove dead weight.
Would it not make sense to use the rebuilt class 73's as these are compatible with 442's, as far as Im aware. All obsolete equipment could be stripped to remove dead weight.
The key difference is probably that the Class 442 rakes will not run under their own power again and will be semi-permanently coupled to a loco - I also don't know if the existing motor cars will have to be scrapped. It would seem a bit of a waste to scrap half of the driving vehicles.
Is there anything wrong structurally with the motor cars? If there isn't could they just remove the traction package and disconnect the traction motors from where the power comes in and from the motor to the wheels (probably cheaper then getting new bogies designed and made).
What it actually says, is that that there will be something put in place with (present) TPE to substitute for the 4 Chiltern 170s going in Feb 16, and the new incumbent can continue to use whatever that is (even if 17x, 15x or even 14x.) Bidder is to work on the basis that the replacement is equivalent to 4 x 2 car 170. Not necessarily temporary either.
Why would new express diesels be ordered when the lines they use are still likely to be electrified within the next decade and by then there will be a surplus of existing express diesels? If this happens it would be a sign that the "pause" is permanent.
Taking the "pause" at face value I'd expect either TPE to carry on with 185s with a few more Turbostars from somewhere, or a small fleet of bi-modes just for the Scotland and Newcastle routes where there is significant running under the wires. When the TP electrification is eventually completed these could move to South Transpennine or other routes that remain unelectrified.
Why would new express diesels be ordered when the lines they use are still likely to be electrified within the next decade and by then there will be a surplus of existing express diesels? If this happens it would be a sign that the "pause" is permanent.
TPE will likely need to continue using either diesels or bi-mode on some services so that they are able to divert via Wakefield, Calder Vale and Warrington Central.
Class 225s anyone? They will need a new home in the coming years. I think I am right in saying a Class 225 would offer a similar capacity to an eight car Class 350.
If you are referring to an InterCity 225, the '225' does not refer to a TOPS classification. Most significant shortcoming is the comparative lack of acceleration even with carriages removed, and the 110mph limit due to lack of tilt.
That horse has well and truly bolted - although the pause will review the current situation, it's pretty certain "just" electrifying TPE North through Huddersfield isn't a long term solution. It has to be a new line full stop.
On the basis of "a new line", struggling on with the 185 fleet isn't enough. A new line would struggle to be built in time for HS2 completion, so we're are realistically looking another 20 years of DMU's in the North and across the regions of England and Wales. There's also going to be demand for new services linking to HS2 stations that haven't even hit the public radar yet, Sheffield Crossrail, Derby-Nottingham Crossrail, Leicester-Coventry-Birmingham-Wolverhampton improvements, servicing the demands of wiring the Valleys, Bristol Metro, plus dozens of small schemes - We have a staffing crunch and building short bits of railway chords to link up existing lines is a relative walk in the park compared to track, bridge, signals and wiring complexities of moving from diesel to electric lines.
TPE needs 6-8 carriage units across its fleet to manage growth through that period, it also needs some cheap fix solutions for getting more trains per hour down the line. CrossCountry desperately needs extra units, Northern will be culling it's 14x fleet in a few years, the 150-156 fleet perhaps even the 158 fleet will need to be culled before the next franchise in 2025 ish. As I've been saying ever since joining this forum, we need to accept that wires across the network aren't going to happen quickly and start a rolling program of new DMU's, preferably DEMU's that are easy to convert or Bi-Mode lower speed units for the regions and non ML franchises.
What exactly do you mean by 'express diesels'? Apart from the 180s and 22xs the other diesels are all versatile enough to use on shorter routes. Indeed the rolling stock RUS referred to rural routes having a poor business case for new stock but stock currently used on regional routes like the 170s being suitable to cascade down.
Also, a Class 91 loco hauled set fixes little through the York-Manchester core
So it is pointless ordering more units just as a stopgap,
There's also a strong possibility of electrification of the existing line going ahead some time before the new line appears, once decisions are made on which if any parts of the existing route will form parts of the new line and even if the answer is either "none of them" or "all of them"!
So a TPE bidder could propose to use 91s on the Anglo Scottish services as they don't need tilt on the WCML, case in point the existing 350s and 185s don't have tilt so could be a option.
Only thing is you need to make sure the MU is designed to be future proof, no use ordering a fleet of 3 car MUs when growth has shown they need to be between 5 and 6 coaches long per MU.
However don't forget that didn't the Deltics when replaced by HSTs for example instead of being cut up actually went on selected TPE services?