Train carriages and locomotives on the back of lorries: Why?

[davegore2005]

It's puzzled me for a while, but I do a lot of motorway driving in my job and quite often see either single carriages or freight locos on the back of low loaders, so my question is, why can't they be driven to where they are going as there surely must be rail lines at the other end?

Any answers appreciated

Dave

 

[najaB]

...my question is, why can't they be driven to where they are going as there surely must be rail lines at the other end?

Because they would have to find a path for the move. It's easier (and occasionally cheaper) to transport it by road.

 

[button_boxer]

It will depend why they are being moved and where to - many preserved lines for example have no mainline connection and locos and stock must be brought in by road.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Also the condition of the rail vehicles is an issue. If it needs repair it might not be safe to move by rail, or would have to move so slowly that it'd block all the scheduled services. In addition, to move it by rail even if it works requires a driver who signs both the train and the route.

 

[davegore2005]

It will depend why they are being moved and where to - many preserved lines for example have no mainline connection and locos and stock must be brought in by road.

They don't look like preserved stock, there have been few FGW old inter city style carriages on the M6 recently

Dave

 

[najaB]

They don't look like preserved stock, there have been few FGW old inter city style carriages on the M6 recently

Dave

Those will be going up to Glasgow (Kilmarnock?) for refurbishment.

 

[alexl92]

Saw a brand new freight wagon (not sure what type as I was driving) on a lorry on the A19 the other day, heading north towards Teeside. Anyone know what it might have been? Was blue but unbranded.

 

[fgwrich]

They don't look like preserved stock, there have been few FGW old inter city style carriages on the M6 recently

Dave

The case of FGW is and isn't a bit of an odd one. What's going on is that FGW are having a large proportion of their fleet repainted and refurbished, so Class 166s are going where and when possible by Rail to Wolverton Works, while the HST vehicles and Night Riviera have gone to Kilmarnock Works and Springburn Works respectively. Most of the HST trailers have gone up formed either as one set at a time, or of the vehicles booked or most in need of a repaint or overhaul or conversion to TC or Standard. The Night Riviera vehicles are a little more tricky - a HST set can be replaced by a spare Mk3 or rake, the Night Rivera doesn't have that luxury and has been swapping out 1 or 2 Mk3s at a time. So, cost effectively it is easier and cheaper to send away 8 vehicles in one formation to Kilmarnock than have a loco take 1 coach all the way up to Scotland.

The other issues can result from vehicle defects not allowing it to go by Rail - London Midland 153 with gearbox seizure for example, or the contracted company not having any available drivers or drivers who sign the route for example - A 153 had to go from St Phills Marsh to Tyseley for this reason a year or two ago.

That said, If some of it can be moved by rail then sometimes it will - Last week a SouthEastern Electrostar was moved to Ramsgate on wheelskates (5mph max) after coming into contact with a small heard of cattle. This move was carried out with a pair of back to back Hastings Diesels Thumpers as opposed to a Loco, the brake force available being greater from the Thumper (no doubt cheaper than finding suitable match wagons as well) as well. Whether or not it was cheaper than moving it by road I don't know, and the competitive costs offered by most of the road hauliers would have come into it at some point, but not doubt easier.

 

[davegore2005]

The other issues can result from vehicle defects not allowing it to go by Rail - London Midland 153 with gearbox seizure for example, or the contracted company not having any available drivers or drivers who sign the route for example - A 153 had to go from St Phills Marsh to Tyseley for this reason a year or two ago.
.

thanks, that makes sense

Dave

 

[furnessvale]

Saw a brand new freight wagon (not sure what type as I was driving) on a lorry on the A19 the other day, heading north towards Teeside. Anyone know what it might have been? Was blue but unbranded.

If it was a container flat type it may have been a VTG Ecofret which, I think, are still being delivered.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's puzzled me for a while, but I do a lot of motorway driving in my job and quite often see either single carriages or freight locos on the back of low loaders, so my question is, why can't they be driven to where they are going as there surely must be rail lines at the other end?

Any answers appreciated

Dave

It's all a vicious plot by the railways! They get old locos/coaches and trundle them round known heavy traffic spots, thus causing utter chaos which diverts potential traffic to rail.

 

[Blamethrower]

What's interesting is that on the roads we have a much larger loading gauge

 

[dk1]

As stated its often cheaper or easier to send by road. "Market Forces" is what I was told when at Crown Point a few years back. This was the same reason diesel was brought in by road tanker when a siding for unloading is alongside the fuel bays & has not been used for this reason for over 20yrs.

 

[fgwrich]

As stated its often cheaper or easier to send by road. "Market Forces" is what I was told when at Crown Point a few years back. This was the same reason diesel was brought in by road tanker when a siding for unloading is alongside the fuel bays & has not been used for this reason for over 20yrs.

Little surprise there, a lot of the depots in FGW land which are or could easily be rail served have been road served for a number of years; St Phillips Marsh, Exeter, Laira, St Blazey and Long Rock only recently lost their deliveries by Rail and Reading, despite being on the route its on I think has been road delivered for a number of years now - even in its Triangle days!

 

[davegore2005]

Little surprise there, a lot of the depots in FGW land which are or could easily be rail served have been road served for a number of years; St Phillips Marsh, Exeter, Laira, St Blazey and Long Rock only recently lost their deliveries by Rail and Reading, despite being on the route its on I think has been road delivered for a number of years now - even in its Triangle days!

so even the fuel to run some of the railways is brought by road to fill the fuel tanks next to the line??, stranger and stranger and the repair yeards have no rail access

Dave

 

[furnessvale]

so even the fuel to run some of the railways is brought by road to fill the fuel tanks next to the line??, stranger and stranger and the repair yeards have no rail access

Dave

Not a lot different from new cars/vans being trunked by rail or bulk road fuel doing the same.

Its horses for courses and rail doesn't do penny packet lots very well.

 

[najaB]

so even the fuel to run some of the railways is brought by road to fill the fuel tanks next to the line??, stranger and stranger and the repair yeards have no rail access

If the railways needed a half a million litres at a time then it would make sense to deliver by rail. Ten thousand litres? Road wins out.

 

[Class 170101]

As stated its often cheaper or easier to send by road. "Market Forces" is what I was told when at Crown Point a few years back. This was the same reason diesel was brought in by road tanker when a siding for unloading is alongside the fuel bays & has not been used for this reason for over 20yrs.

Fuel may well be able to come by road but as for getting carriages locos etc to / from Crown Point they come in by rail as the road network in the immediate area isn't upto the job. I believe if road is used its to Dereham and then via the Mid Norfolk Railway to Crown Point.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The case of FGW is and isn't a bit of an odd one. What's going on is that FGW are having a large proportion of their fleet repainted and refurbished, so Class 166s are going where and when possible by Rail to Wolverton Works, while the HST vehicles and Night Riviera have gone to Kilmarnock Works and Springburn Works respectively. Most of the HST trailers have gone up formed either as one set at a time, or of the vehicles booked or most in need of a repaint or overhaul or conversion to TC or Standard. The Night Riviera vehicles are a little more tricky - a HST set can be replaced by a spare Mk3 or rake, the Night Rivera doesn't have that luxury and has been swapping out 1 or 2 Mk3s at a time. So, cost effectively it is easier and cheaper to send away 8 vehicles in one formation to Kilmarnock than have a loco take 1 coach all the way up to Scotland.

This was also taking place during the Dawlish Wall failure, I gather coaches were moved by road to Kilmarnock from Laira, by rail from Kilmarnock to Exeter, Bristol or Old Oak and the same in reverse. I understood very few sets were moved directly by road from one side of the block to the other.

That said, If some of it can be moved by rail then sometimes it will - Last week a SouthEastern Electrostar was moved to Ramsgate on wheelskates (5mph max) after coming into contact with a small heard of cattle. This move was carried out with a pair of back to back Hastings Diesels Thumpers as opposed to a Loco, the brake force available being greater from the Thumper (no doubt cheaper than finding suitable match wagons as well) as well. Whether or not it was cheaper than moving it by road I don't know, and the competitive costs offered by most of the road hauliers would have come into it at some point, but not doubt easier.

Depends where the train failed sometimes there is no road access so game over it must move by rail.

 

[notadriver]

What happens on the continent ? I'm sure they don't transport many of their rolling stick around on the back of lorries.

 

[SPADTrap]

What happens on the continent ? I'm sure they don't transport many of their rolling stick around on the back of lorries.

They do lorries on the back of wagons

 

[dk1]

Fuel may well be able to come by road but as for getting carriages locos etc to / from Crown Point they come in by rail as the road network in the immediate area isn't upto the job. I believe if road is used its to Dereham and then via the Mid Norfolk Railway to Crown Point.

Quite correct, I have driven an 08 & half a 156 from Dereham to Crown Point. We also have used Norwich Yard & Griffin Wharf (Ipswich) in the past.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I would think in the olden days of British Rail it was easier to transport locos/coaches by rail.So much different now with a privatised railway system.

 

[swt_passenger]

Plenty of moves do take place by rail - any particular move will be assessed on its own merits. ISTM that whole trains will often gain economies of scale, all the new LU S stock has been delivered by rail, and the new 387s, 350s etc recently.

Individual coaches (or small units such as 456) are most likely cheaper by road, so there most likely will be a cut off point where rail and road costs cross over.

Units such as 458/5 conversions have been split to go to different works for different parts of the conversion, on the other hand even if they were complete units they are DC only, so have to be hauled. Many DMUs such as FGW's Turbos are making trips to and from remote works on their own, as did the Scotrail and TPE 170s moving down south.

So really you cannot generalise. Some moves are hauled, some go it alone, and some get carried on trucks.

 

[gazthomas]

All good answers so far, shows that rail isn't cost effective than anything other than freight (or people) in bulk.

 

[furnessvale]

All good answers so far, shows that rail isn't cost effective than anything other than freight (or people) in bulk.

Provided you accept that freight in bulk can also include multi users of a single train, eg containers etc.