Trespass incident Ribblehead 6th Aug

[fsmr]

BTP Lancs tweeting appeals re trespass lunchtime at Ribblehead on the S&C if anyone knows anything No excuses for that plenty of legal vantage points

 

[Tom Quayle]

Can we have these people found and shot please. I've worked pway for 8 years and put 6 bodies into bin bags and find the stupidity of some people entirely selfish. I take a guess they are the same sort of people who complain about big fences next to lines, when this is the reason those fences exist.

I've seen first hand the affect that even seeing a member of the dumb dumb squad standing line side or playing chicken at a crossing can have on a driver (unfortunate can ride near miss) it can really affect some of them and to risk potentially affecting someone career and livelihood for the sake of a picture deserves the harshest of punishments. I know that may seem a tad strong but it's one of my pet peeves and that's without starting on the damaging affect it has on the reputation of rail tours within the industry.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Can we have these people found and shot please. I've worked pway for 8 years and put 6 bodies into bin bags and find the stupidity of some people entirely selfish. I take a guess they are the same sort of people who complain about big fences next to lines, when this is the reason those fences exist.

I've seen first hand the affect that even seeing a member of the dumb dumb squad standing line side or playing chicken at a crossing can have on a driver (unfortunate can ride near miss) it can really affect some of them and to risk potentially affecting someone career and livelihood for the sake of a picture deserves the harshest of punishments. I know that may seem a tad strong but it's one of my pet peeves and that's without starting on the damaging affect it has on the reputation of rail tours within the industry.

No, I don't agree it's too strong, because sadly I don't think just words alone has any effect on these utterly selfish brainless numpties

 

[tsr]

This is evidently an inexcusable and dangerous incident. However, I cannot see much in the way of fencing in the image. Is this hidden from view, or is it very limited in reality? It seems that such a picturesque line should almost have better fencing where vaguely near civilisation, in order to deter trespassing idiots (and that's putting it mildly...).

I have, as part of my professional duty, reported several trespass incidents in the last few days and weeks, and each has had potential to cause disruption and (if not able to be dealt with correctly and promptly) distress. Fortunately none of these have involved "enthusiasts", but it always seems to involve a similar "rules don't apply to me" attitude. This is unacceptable and remains unacceptable anywhere on the network and no matter how much you might think you know about trains. If you are not qualified, equipped and professionally required to go on the railway outside of authorised crossings, please don't.

 

[RailCam]

These images were taken by our camera overlooking Ribblehead Viaduct, sadly we don't have a record feature on that cam at the minute, but it certainly is an option for future upgrade. This cam is jointly funded and maintained by Railcam & The Friends of the Settle to Carlisle Line.

Here are a couple of screen grabs one of our members managed to get.

 

[nedchester]

Can we have these people found and shot please.

Yes really reasonable response, NOT! Over the top reaction as usual to this sort of thing.

Only in the UK do we get so hot under the collar about this.

Yes it's illegal, yes they shouldn't be doing it but yes people do silly things.

 

[DaleCooper]

Yes really reasonable response, NOT! Over the top reaction as usual to this sort of thing.

Only in the UK do we get so hot under the collar about this.

Yes it's illegal, yes they shouldn't be doing it but yes people do silly things.

All very well, until it disrupts your journey.

 

[John Webb]

This is evidently an inexcusable and dangerous incident. However, I cannot see much in the way of fencing in the image. Is this hidden from view, or is it very limited in reality?..........

There is fencing, mostly hidden in the plant growth about halfway between the embankment and the driveway up to the station. It is quite likely they simply walked off the north end of the up platform - I can't see anything in the pictures I took last September when visiting the station to stop people doing that - and it's an area of the station which would not be easily visible from anyone in the station building where the visitor centre is.

 

[neilmc]

I understand there's a single line over Ribblehead viaduct so whilst the photographers were trespassing (and due to archaic railway law that's only a criminal offence on the railway, not on any other private land) they were in no danger whatsoever of being run over by another train. Perspective and chill pills required here.

 

[tsr]

I understand there's a single line over Ribblehead viaduct so whilst the photographers were trespassing (and due to archaic railway law that's only a criminal offence on the railway, not on any other private land) they were in no danger whatsoever of being run over by another train. Perspective and chill pills required here.

And are you completely dismissing the possibility of a line block having been taken on the line on which they were standing for the purpose of using a road-rail vehicle, or perhaps the possibility of a train having just come off the single line in front of the tour approaching it from the other direction (not sure on the signalling system layout there, but elsewhere it'd be a possibility), or the hazard of tripping over sleepers on the way back to safety and lying over the rails until the next train comes across them, or accidentally encouraging children who then start to play on the viaduct until they get squashed, or... well, you get the picture, I hope. The risks are huge.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is fencing, mostly hidden in the plant growth about halfway between the embankment and the driveway up to the station.

Thanks for the clarification. As it happens I can in fact now just see it in the larger photos too!

 

[Tom Quayle]

The whole point of my strong reaction is that I'm one of the unfortunate people who gets called to clean up the mess. Which isn't fun especially when your in the middle of a meal. Imagine being called out of your house to mop a body of your drive and your getting close. It's not the dumbthusiast as I've christened these sorts of people who make us all look bad I'm on about either. Suicides and trespass also seem to go up around Christmas aswell (80% of the ones I've been to were in the month of December) which isn't fair to 1, the driver 2, those who have the mess to deal with and 3, the travelling public. It's ignorant and selfish.

I gladly invite anyone who sees my view as an over reaction to take my next one under call out. I will even provide the gloves.

True in their location they wouldn't get hit but that's not the point. It will still amass delay while the train reports it at the next available point and the next train through the location is sent at caution. Plus if they get away with it once they will do it again and probably be more risky about it.

 

[47802]

Yes really reasonable response, NOT! Over the top reaction as usual to this sort of thing.

Only in the UK do we get so hot under the collar about this.

Yes it's illegal, yes they shouldn't be doing it but yes people do silly things.

Indeed so, I wonder if a steam special has ever run up the S&C where no one has trespassed to some degree even if its not usually as blatant as that, if there has I would be gobsmacked.

 

[CC 72100]

47802, you make it sound as if trespassing is not something that we should be concerned about. Surely we all want a railway that is as safe as possible, no?

 

[Darandio]

Surely we all want a railway that is as safe as possible, no?

It would seem yes, but only when steam isn't involved........

 

[47802]

47802, you make it sound as if trespassing is not something that we should be concerned about. Surely we all want a railway that is as safe as possible, no?

I'm not saying people should Trespass but its not exactly uncommon on the S&C especially when a Steam Loco is about, although perhaps less than a few years ago, and only in this country do we have the Trespass obsession, and yes I know its related to our Laws on the matter, where as in many other countries there are large section of Track with no fences and nothing to stop people wandering across or down the track.

 

[CC 72100]

I really don't buy that - "they do it so we can too". Is that really good enough from a safety viewpoint? It's not comparing like-for-like.

I'd rather have a safe railway and selfishly one in which delays are reduced. Taking a hands off approach to trespassing puts both of the above at risk.

Railways aren't run for the enthusiast/ photographer's benefit. You remind us enough of that in the Northern 37s thread

 

[Crossover]

And are you completely dismissing the possibility of a line block having been taken on the line on which they were standing for the purpose of using a road-rail vehicle, or perhaps the possibility of a train having just come off the single line in front of the tour approaching it from the other direction (not sure on the signalling system layout there, but elsewhere it'd be a possibility), or the hazard of tripping over sleepers on the way back to safety and lying over the rails until the next train comes across them, or accidentally encouraging children who then start to play on the viaduct until they get squashed, or... well, you get the picture, I hope. The risks are huge.

It doesn't excuse the situation, but as I understand it, once something is signalled for the viaduct to go into the Leeds bound platform, the protecting signal for the section heading to Carlisle is before the platform (i.e. it is not possible for both platforms to be occupied simultaneously at Ribblehead)

 

[455driver]

I'm not saying people should Trespass but its not exactly uncommon on the S&C especially when a Steam Loco is about, although perhaps less than a few years ago, and only in this country do we have the Trespass obsession, and yes I know its related to our Laws on the matter, where as in many other countries there are large section of Track with no fences and nothing to stop people wandering across or down the track.

And in those other Countries there isn't some Ambulance chasing solicitor suing the train operator/network rail/anyone else they can think of when the trespassing muppet gets wiped out by a train! :roll:

 

[RichmondCommu]

The attitude of some forum members towards trespass on the rail network is very disappointing. Whether or not they would have been in any immediate danger is completely irrelevant; they themselves would have known that they were breaking the law by standing on the track so why do it? Enthusiasts who are members of this forum often take great delight in hapless members of the public who struggle to understand our rail network and yet leap to the defence of those who trespass. Well who's more stupid??

 

[455driver]

You are all forgetting the most important thing?

The photos they took would have been sh+t anyway, head on is rubbish!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You are all forgetting the most important thing?

The photos they took would have been sh+t anyway, head on is rubbish!

[mic drop]

Finally a bit of perspective on this thread!

 

[GB]

I understand there's a single line over Ribblehead viaduct so whilst the photographers were trespassing (and due to archaic railway law that's only a criminal offence on the railway, not on any other private land) they were in no danger whatsoever of being run over by another train. Perspective and chill pills required here.

Well that's ok then isn't it:roll:

...and the railway isn't the only land that constitutes criminal trespass. Try doing that on MOD land, or places like the royal estate at Sandringham or Buckingham palace and see what happens.

 

[GatwickDepress]

The attitude of some forum members towards trespass on the rail network is very disappointing. Whether or not they would have been in any immediate danger is completely irrelevant; they themselves would have known that they were breaking the law by standing on the track so why do it? Enthusiasts who are members of this forum often take great delight in hapless members of the public who struggle to understand our rail network and yet leap to the defence of those who trespass. Well who's more stupid??

Pretty much this. Rules are rules and law are law. Disagreeing with them is no defence towards breaking them, nor is "getting a good picture". That said, I am surprised Ribblehead and other S&C stations don't have wooden gates at the platform ends to try and stop the feral enthusiast from reaching their picture hunting grounds.


Tom Quayle, please calm down. I understand, but a measured response is quite preferable to venting your spleen on a forum; and yes, I have been involved in my fair share of suicides, and witnessed my best friend's mangled corpse strewn throughout the four foot.

Calling for people to be shot for trespassing is an overreaction - think of all the shooters at risk of PTSD and guilt-induced suicide, simply for ending someone's life!

 

[47802]

The attitude of some forum members towards trespass on the rail network is very disappointing. Whether or not they would have been in any immediate danger is completely irrelevant; they themselves would have known that they were breaking the law by standing on the track so why do it? Enthusiasts who are members of this forum often take great delight in hapless members of the public who struggle to understand our rail network and yet leap to the defence of those who trespass. Well who's more stupid??

There were times in years gone by where I may have taken photo's and yes technically I would have been trespassing although I would never stand anywhere near the track like those in the photo. Would I do it today No, because of the hanging offence mentality you get these days from the authorities and some people on this forum, also possibly being regarded as a terrorist threat, I was once regarded as a terrorist threat for simply taking photo's from a public road bridge although not on the S&C I would add, and it also being used as a potential reason to stop running both steam and diesel enthusiast charters.

Am I condoning those in the photo no i'm not, but simply pointing out its not exactly unusual on the S&C although standing where they did is a little extreme regardless of whether it was effectively safe or not.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Very silly behavior, I remember when I was at school in the 1970s, some of my fellow pupils were caught being out of school in the lunch hour at the local station. The station master drove them back to school, where they had a severe telling off and painful interview with the headmaster !. I was on a steam train on the S&C a few weeks ago and saw people very close to the line too, although that was nearer to Leeds I think.

 

[DaleCooper]

Can we have these people found and shot please. I've worked pway for 8 years and put 6 bodies into bin bags and find the stupidity of some people entirely selfish. I take a guess they are the same sort of people who complain about big fences next to lines, when this is the reason those fences exist.

I've seen first hand the affect that even seeing a member of the dumb dumb squad standing line side or playing chicken at a crossing can have on a driver (unfortunate can ride near miss) it can really affect some of them and to risk potentially affecting someone career and livelihood for the sake of a picture deserves the harshest of punishments. I know that may seem a tad strong but it's one of my pet peeves and that's without starting on the damaging affect it has on the reputation of rail tours within the industry.

This post has come in for a lot of criticism for being an over the top reaction, presumably for the highlighted sentence.

As I see it that sentence was merely a bit of hyperbole for rhetorical effect, not to be taken literally so to Tom Quayle's knockers I say "calm down yourselves".

 

[nedchester]

And in those other Countries there isn't some Ambulance chasing solicitor suing the train operator/network rail/anyone else they can think of when the trespassing muppet gets wiped out by a train! :roll:

And that is part of the problem with 'safety' in this country.

The attitude of some forum members towards trespass on the rail network is very disappointing.

I agree, terrible that some members think it's OK to say that trespassers should be shot!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There were times in years gone by where I may have taken photo's and yes technically I would have been trespassing although I would never stand anywhere near the track like those in the photo. Would I do it today No, because of the hanging offence mentality you get these days from the authorities and some people on this forum, also possibly being regarded as a terrorist threat, I was once regarded as a terrorist threat for simply taking photo's from a public road bridge although not on the S&C I would add, and it also being used as a potential reason to stop running both steam and diesel enthusiast charters.

Am I condoning those in the photo no i'm not, but simply pointing out its not exactly unusual on the S&C although standing where they did is a little extreme regardless of whether it was effectively safe or not.

Agreed.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

...so to Tom Quayle's knockers I say "calm down yourselves".

???

 

[alexl92]

What's the current penalty if caught trespassing?

 

[Tom Quayle]

And that is part of the problem with 'safety' in this country.



I agree, terrible that some members think it's OK to say that trespassers should be shot!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Agreed.

I'll post my glove through and let you clean up the next one. Sarcasm is lost on some people I swear.

The antiquated own the place attitude of some people is very disappointing. Try being called out on Christmas Eve to clean up a kid who was messing about on the railway and argued with an express then maybe you will understand my strong view on it.

The sign trespassers will be shot is an old farmers joke. You want me to be serious about then fair enough. They should be charged for every penny of delay they cause. So that's £200 for every minute beyond ten per train on the wcml.