Network Rail Fined

[Deepgreen]

NR has been fined £2m by the ORR for poor performance last year, including the London Bridge debacle. The question is; how does what is effectively one Government department fining another actually help anything?

 

[CdBrux]

Would the fine result in (some of) that money being paid to ORR instead of staff bonuses?

 

[ComUtoR]

Its a very visible and public punishment. Also, it becomes a matter of record. It may be a money-go-round but I'd rather them fined than no punitive action taken. Fines make the public happy.

 

[eMeS]

Its a very visible and public punishment. Also, it becomes a matter of record. It may be a money-go-round but I'd rather them fined than no punitive action taken. Fines make the public happy.

Please don't include me in your statement. I hate public money-go-rounds. Wouldn't Community Service with Press publicity sharpen up sloppy practices somewhat better?

 

[Taunton]

From the BBC :

Phil Hufton, managing director of network operations at Network Rail, said: "At London Bridge we are undertaking the biggest and most complex station and track redevelopment ever attempted on Britain's railways - while simultaneously continuing to keep services running."

Well, apart from the fact that he's forgotten that the GWR changed the gauge of the entire line from Taunton to Penzance in 1892, including running all the old rolling stock off, regauging hundreds of miles of track, and running the new stock in, over a SINGLE WEEKEND, a task which makes London Bridge look trivial in comparison, they have most certainly NOT kept services running - I can't get from Charing Cross to London Bridge or Greenwich any more, there's no Thameslink from St Pancras to London Bridge, they pretty much gave up on local services on the Forest Hill line at peak hours for months - and what service remained on the Southern side has been subject to regular great disruption.

 

[Bletchleyite]

NR has been fined £2m by the ORR for poor performance last year, including the London Bridge debacle. The question is; how does what is effectively one Government department fining another actually help anything?

Funnily enough I was thinking precisely that - what's the point in the Government fining itself?

 

[dk1]

£2m to such organisations is like me losing my coffee money for a couple of days :roll:

 

[deltic]

NR has been fined £2m by the ORR for poor performance last year, including the London Bridge debacle. The question is; how does what is effectively one Government department fining another actually help anything?

It doesnt as far as I can make out and is completely pointless. If the fine came out of director's and senior managers' bonus pot then it may be worthwhile but just reducing what NR can spend on the network seems stupid and counter productive.

 

[AM9]

I think that we may be looking at a much bigger government plan. There are a few rumblings about putting NR out to private tender. Have they been set up to fail to help this along the way?
p.s. I'm not into conspiracy theories so if anybody has good reasons why this couldn't be likely I would like to hear them.

 

[Camden]

Its a very visible and public punishment. Also, it becomes a matter of record. It may be a money-go-round but I'd rather them fined than no punitive action taken. Fines make the public happy.

People aren't stupid.

I don't want to see "companies" fined when it's meaningless.

I want to see the highly paid individual(s) responsible publicly sacked (without the obligatory golden goodbye) for failing to deliver. That's what happens (or should happen) in a real company.

What possible incentive could there be for a public sector company to be run well if there is never any risk to the people in charge? They get the rewards alright.

 

[jnjkerbin]

Like taking milk from a crying baby to punish it when the reason that it's crying is that it hasn't got enough milk.

 

[OxtedL]

Here is the relevant media release from the ORR website.

10 August 2015

The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) today published its findings and analysis from an investigation into Network Rail's performance delivery to Southern, Govia Thameslink (GTR) and in Scotland in 2014-15, which found that Network Rail breached its licence.

Network Rail's performance in respect of passenger services on Southern, GTR, and in Scotland were below expectations and missed punctuality targets in 2014-15. Southern and GTR combined represented a third of punctuality delays and nearly half of cancelled and significantly delayed services in England and Wales.

ORR's investigation looked into why Network Rail had failed to deliver its performance targets. This included an assessment of whether there were any systemic weaknesses in Network Rail's performance delivery. While there were no systemic weaknesses, ORR's Board took into consideration the repeated past errors by Network Rail on timetabling, lack of liaison with operators and not planning ahead for passengers.

This investigation found that Network Rail did not do everything reasonably practicable to deliver the reliability and punctuality needed to support the train services provided by Southern, GTR and in Scotland. The report identified various issues in Network Rail's development and implementation of timetables in 2014-15.

...

ORR chief executive Richard Price said:
"ORR is therefore imposing a £2m fine on Network Rail – a decision we did not take lightly. The scale of the delays suffered by passengers was central to our decision to fine. The penalty sends a clear message to the Network Rail Board; Network Rail must urgently rectify these errors and deliver the reliability of services that passengers have paid for."

ORR has proposed a £2m financial penalty in relation to Network Rail's impact on GTR and Southern services. Network Rail has the opportunity to offer reparations for affected passengers, instead of having to pay the fine.

For Scotland, while fewer passengers were disrupted and performance has improved recently, this represented the third occasion in recent years in which timetabling issues have caused problems. ...

ORR also conducted a separate safety investigation into the disruptions at London Bridge which found that while passenger information and pedestrian flow management could have been better, safety of passengers was not compromised.

So there is apparently an option for it to go into reparations to passengers instead.

Even just as a fine though, there is a symbolic result in making sure everyone sees where there is fault, and also in putting some kind of value on the scale of the fault. You often see that this kind of fine makes its way straight back into the system (I recall Network Rail in the past being instructed to reinvest some amount, although I cannot recall the details?).

The investigation and findings themselves are important, the fine is there to try and make sure they get noticed.

 

[gazthomas]

It's a gesture only. Give on one hand, take on the other.

Network Rail and its supply chain does need to be more efficient in my opinion.

 

[Llanigraham]

And as usual, we the workers on the ground, will loose part of our bonus, when it isn't our fault!!
Why can't they hit the Directors instead?

 

[gazthomas]

And as usual, we the workers on the ground, will loose part of our bonus, when it isn't our fault!!
Why can't they hit the Directors instead?

I don't disagree with that, maybe the targets are not equally set

 

[Bald Rick]

And as usual, we the workers on the ground, will loose part of our bonus, when it isn't our fault!!
Why can't they hit the Directors instead?

No you won't.

 

[FOH]

Seems poetic that I'm standing at London Bridge right now awaiting a delayed Southern train. The fine was not enough.

 

[al.currie93]

Funnily enough I was thinking precisely that - what's the point in the Government fining itself?

I thought this too - I'm look at it as being akin to Alan Sugar firing himself from The Apprentice... :P

 

[HH]

This has come up before and I said then, and have seen no reason to change my mind since, that it's the senior management who should be fined - i.e. they should lose their bonuses and pay increases, rather than a meaningless company fine.

 

[rebmcr]

Its a very visible and public punishment. Also, it becomes a matter of record. It may be a money-go-round but I'd rather them fined than no punitive action taken. Fines make the public happy.

People aren't stupid.

Yes they are!

 

[Llanigraham]

Yes they are!

Agreed. See post 17!

 

[FOH]

Agreed. See post 17!

I don't consider myself stupid, just aggrieved. Why do you consider me stupid?

 

[The Planner]

Depends if the reason your train is delayed is NRs fault I suppose, if it isnt why would a bigger fine make a difference, and to be fair if the reason is down to NR unless it is down to London Bridge then it still makes a bigger fine a bit pointless!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Why can't they hit the Directors instead?

The top brass at NR have already lost their bonuses, over the enhancement project issues (GW electrification delay/cost overrun etc).

 

[Bald Rick]

Seems poetic that I'm standing at London Bridge right now awaiting a delayed Southern train. The fine was not enough.

Quite bad luck on your part, assuming you're heading for Forest Hill. Of the 65 trains departing London Bridge for same today, only 6 have departed more than 3 mins late, and the one you were waiting for was by far and away the most delayed.

And no, the delay wasn't down to London Bridge - very few delays are now; since March services using London Bridge have performed far better than those using Victoria or Brighton or many other Southern / TL termini.

 

[Camden]

If you're very well paid then losing a bonus isn't much of a punishment.

 

[Taunton]

Well, they've just turned up on the BBC News, and once again haven't addressed the issues they were fined for, but once again just feel that if they say the works are "extremely complicated" then that deflects all criticism.

They're not extremely complicated. They are a straightforward railway civil engineering job for those who have the skills to manage and plan them. However, that doesn't seem to cover the NR management any more, and they don't show any moves to getting those who know how to do these things competently into place.

 

[matt_world2004]

Wasn't part of the problems at London Bridge caused by a train operator sending all their drivers for training on the same day?

 

[FOH]

Quite bad luck on your part, assuming you're heading for Forest Hill. Of the 65 trains departing London Bridge for same today, only 6 have departed more than 3 mins late, and the one you were waiting for was by far and away the most delayed.

And no, the delay wasn't down to London Bridge - very few delays are now; since March services using London Bridge have performed far better than those using Victoria or Brighton or many other Southern / TL termini.

Yep I was waiting for the 1954 that never happened and the 2006 left quite late too. Seems pretty bad luck for me recently what with the debacle last Thursday morning too! I do agree that when things are OK it's quite good but, things go wrong more often than they used to.

 

[Llanigraham]

I don't consider myself stupid, just aggrieved. Why do you consider me stupid?

Easy.
Just because your ONE train is late does not mean that the whole railway network is the same.
I consider your analogy stupid.
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No you won't.

Really?
We have had the figure reduced in the last couple of years because of "poor performance ".