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Shoreham Airshow Crash

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crispy1978

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34027260

Seven people have died after a Hawker Hunter jet crashed into several vehicles during Shoreham Airshow.
South East Coast Ambulance Service said the victims died at the scene, while another person is critical in hospital. The number of injured stands at 14.
The plane crashed on the nearby A27. Witnesses said it was performing a loop but could not complete the manoeuvre.
Prime Minister David Cameron sent his "heartfelt condolences" to the families of those who died in the crash.
Eyewitness Stephen Jones said: "The aeroplane involved is a Hawker Hunter T mark 7. And he'd just begun his flying display.
Police said the plane hit several vehicles
"He'd gone up into a loop and as he was coming out of the loop I just thought, you're too low, you're too low, pull up.
"And he flew straight into the ground either on or very close to the A27, which runs past the airport."
Ailish Southall, who was driving along the A27 in West Sussex with her two children, said the plane came down close to them.
"We were waiting for it to go back up and it didn't - it seemed to kind of split in two," she said.
"There were huge amounts of fire and we ran from the car to kind of avoid the debris because we were about 15 metres away, we were just across the road from where the accident happened."
Another eyewitness, tweeting as Jon B, said: "It (the plane) turned from the north by Lancing College, went to go low towards the airfield and went behind some trees below where I was.
"Then there was a crunch sound and a ball of flames and thick black smoke came up from the ground."

Sounds a tragic incident. Condolences to the family and friends of the deceased, and thoughts with everyone connected with the emergency services, the Airshow and those who witnessed it.

PS - there's more on the BBC feed but my mobile copy and paste isn't playing ball.
 
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Strathclyder

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Was just gonna post a topic on this myself.

My thoughts go out to the families and friends of the victims, the emergency services/airshow organizers dealing with the aftermath and everyone who saw it all unfold.
 

crispy1978

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According to the news, the pilot is in a critical condition and "fighting for his life" - I don't know if he was able to eject from the plane, but if not it's a miracle he wasn't killed instantly.
 

ainsworth74

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According to the news, the pilot is in a critical condition and "fighting for his life" - I don't know if he was able to eject from the plane, but if not it's a miracle he wasn't killed instantly.

Reports I've heard suggest he was pulled from the wreckage and I'm lead to believe, unless a modern version was installed, the Martin-Baker ejection seat fitted to the Hunter would most likely have been outside of its usage envelope once it was clear he was going to crash. Whether or not he could have ejected it appears he did not.

So the fact he is still alive (and hopefully will recover from his injuries) is a testament to the Hawker designers sixtyish years ago.
 

Antman

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Horrendous incident, I've got family in the area and I was concerned for a while that they may have been involved.

There will inevitably be questions asked about the safety of these events.

My thoughts go out to those involved.
 

Tracky

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A very nasty and tragic accident. An unfortunate combination of factors which led to the deaths of members of the public who were not connected to the event itself (spectators etc). Thoughts are with all those affected.

Air shows in the UK bring a huge amount of pleasure and excitement to many thousands of visitors. They are very tightly regulated and risk assessed with emergency plans in place.

Air shows give the military from home and overseas the chance to show off their equipment and the skill of the pilots offering a valued PR role to our armed forces. They also allow civilian and enthusiasts the chance to display their own aircraft. They are a big part of local tourist economy's supporting many service providers and also charities.

There are inevitably people asking questions about the safety of these events but the safety record in terms of those killed or injured excluding pilots (up to Shoreham) speaks for itself. Once again, a tragically unfortunate accident where a number of factors made the situation an almost 'worst case' scenario.
 
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meridian2

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A tragic accident or an entirely avoidable event?

If, as the media claims, the pilot had all that experience, surely he would've realised his mistake and aborted the manoeuvre before committing to it, knowing he was below profile? Questions have been rightly raised about this incident.
 

beeza1

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A tragic accident or an entirely avoidable event?

If, as the media claims, the pilot had all that experience, surely he would've realised his mistake and aborted the manoeuvre before committing to it, knowing he was below profile? Questions have been rightly raised about this incident.

How do you know the pilot made a mistake? there are many factors which could have caused this tragic accident, not least a mechanical failure.
So please don't speculate without being in possession of the facts.
 

Haydn1971

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If, as the media claims, the pilot had all that experience, surely he would've realised his mistake and aborted the manoeuvre before committing to it, knowing he was below profile?


It's a natural reaction of pilots to do two things, first, self preservation, second avoidance of collateral human death - it's difficult to speculate on these things, but given the above, had something broken mid-manoeuvre, the pilot would have naturally reacted by guiding the aircraft to the nearest empty space on the ground - however it would seem that the pilot just didn't quite make it to the field just beyond the A27 - there's 1000's of variables that come into play, whilst we can speculate, it's unlikely that we will get to know the full detail sequence of events that led to this crash.
 

ainsworth74

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Well I would guess we're in the position of waiting for the AAIB report to find out what happened. Much like when something happens on the railway we have to wait for RAIB report.
 

ushawk

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A tragic accident or an entirely avoidable event?

If, as the media claims, the pilot had all that experience, surely he would've realised his mistake and aborted the manoeuvre before committing to it, knowing he was below profile? Questions have been rightly raised about this incident.

Its being reported (I stress, reported) that the engine may well have stalled mid-manoeuvre. In the pretty shocking video of the crash, you can see the plane twitching around almost as if the pilot is trying to avoid crashing onto the A27, but was unable too. It is already a miracle that he wasnt killed and that more people havent.

If you look at pictures, a Stagecoach bus running between Shoreham and Worthing was incredibly close and also coaches running to the Amex Stadium for the Brighton game use that route, but miraculously passed through shortly before. The road itself is constantly busy, especially at that junction with traffic lights, which werent in operation at the time. Had they of been, the plane may well have crashed into solid stationary traffic.

Unfortunately, things go wrong and this seems to be one of them. Inevitably this will lead to questions about the Shoreham Airshow, as this is the 3rd crash in 8 years. Is an airshow over a built up area and a main road appropriate ?
 

meridian2

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The location isn't an issue; RIAT happens both over a village,a main road (A417) and a small town (Lechlade). The issue appears, at this stage, to be either pilot error or a mechanical fault on one of Britain's most reliable planes.
Either way, the search for a whipping person, something which I totally deplore by our media,appears to be justified in this case.
 

Haydn1971

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There's a number of really horrific photos on the Guardian website now, one at the moment of impact looks like a dashcam image and shows the extent of the fireball and construction workers running from the fireball
 

Antman

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Its being reported (I stress, reported) that the engine may well have stalled mid-manoeuvre. In the pretty shocking video of the crash, you can see the plane twitching around almost as if the pilot is trying to avoid crashing onto the A27, but was unable too. It is already a miracle that he wasnt killed and that more people havent.

If you look at pictures, a Stagecoach bus running between Shoreham and Worthing was incredibly close and also coaches running to the Amex Stadium for the Brighton game use that route, but miraculously passed through shortly before. The road itself is constantly busy, especially at that junction with traffic lights, which werent in operation at the time. Had they of been, the plane may well have crashed into solid stationary traffic.

Unfortunately, things go wrong and this seems to be one of them. Inevitably this will lead to questions about the Shoreham Airshow, as this is the 3rd crash in 8 years. Is an airshow over a built up area and a main road appropriate ?

Your last question is the main issue and some locals feel that this was an accident waiting to happen.

Surely mid air stunts should be performed over the sea or at least over farmland? I've enjoyed airshows myself before and whilst I wouldn't want to see them banned clearly this is not a price worth paying and some serious questions have to be asked.
 

crispy1978

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Assuming the engine stalling, etc is correct - could it have been the plane was supposed to be over farmland and the stalling meant it accidentally fell short and came down on the road?
 

Tracky

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The report will, I'm sure, offer some answers.

A tragic set of circumstances came together to lead to a relatively high loss of life.

'If' is a big word.



If the plane had crashed 20 yards further on we could be talking of the miraculous survival of the pilot and no fatalities.

If the HST at Wooton Bassett had been a shade later we would have been looking at quite a different story there.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Reports I've heard suggest he was pulled from the wreckage and I'm lead to believe, unless a modern version was installed, the Martin-Baker ejection seat fitted to the Hunter would most likely have been outside of its usage envelope once it was clear he was going to crash. Whether or not he could have ejected it appears he did not.

So the fact he is still alive (and hopefully will recover from his injuries) is a testament to the Hawker designers sixtyish years ago.

Are not ejector seats de-activated when aircraft leave military service for private ownership?
 

fowler9

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Are not ejector seats de-activated when aircraft leave military service for private ownership?

From what I have read (And don't take this as fact) there is no hard and fast rule on it. However, some aircraft are actually designed for no other bail out method. The awkward thing is that apparently ejector seats bring up their own specific safety concerns.
 

beeza1

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Are not ejector seats de-activated when aircraft leave military service for private ownership?

According to an aviation expert on BBC News this morning, ejector seats are not allowed on privately owned ex military aircraft due to the complex nature of maintaining them, they do after all contain explosives.
 

507021

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Very sad news indeed. My deepest condolences go out to those who have been affected
 

455driver

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According to an aviation expert on BBC News this morning, ejector seats are not allowed on privately owned ex military aircraft due to the complex nature of maintaining them, they do after all contain explosives.
So do airbags in cars!
Your point is what exactly?
Is this a proper expert or a Christian Wolmar type exspurt?
 

Antman

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Something like this always brings out the best in people and a local cab firm have offered to pick people up for free locally and take them to the airport to retrieve their vehicles, restores ones faith in humanity.
 

bnm

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According to an aviation expert on BBC News this morning, ejector seats are not allowed on privately owned ex military aircraft due to the complex nature of maintaining them, they do after all contain explosives.

G-BXFI had an airworthiness notice issued by the CAA that stated its bang seat was operational and maintained.

No variation to that notice has been made since the aircraft was given a permit to fly.
 

Antman

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The CAA have announced that vintage aircraft will be restricted to fly pasts and will not be allowed to perform aerobatic manoeuvres over land
 
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