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Driver's door open whilst train moving?

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Graeme

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A question for drivers and other train staff - apologies if this has already been asked/answered elsewhere.

Watching one of today's XC services roll into Newcastle Central Station, I couldn't help notice that the driver had his left-hand (non-platform side) door open as the train was heading into the station.

Is this usual practice (i.e. for extra ventilation if the air conditioning is u/s) or is it something which goes against regulations as it may be a safety issue? I noticed that the door was still open as the train left the station as well.

I haven't identified the actual service above as I don't necessarily want to get anyone into trouble....

Thoughts?
 
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RPM

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I'm not aware that it is against any regulations but it is only possible on some types of stock. The door needs to be both inward opening and excluded from the door interlock circuits.
 

185143

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RPM:2329290 said:
I'm not aware that it is against any regulations but it is only possible on some types of stock. The door needs to be both inward opening and excluded from the door interlock circuits.
which vomiter cab doors are. Seen it at Church Fenton and in Manchester numerous times
 

PermitToTravel

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Very very normal practice on the Underground, and permitted there. It's a rarer sight on the big railway but not completely unheard-of, apart from freight trains which seem to have doors open very often - I guess they don't have to worry about interlocks et al?
 

najaB

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The door needs to be both inward opening and excluded from the door interlock circuits.
I'd like to think that only inward opening doors would be excluded from interlock. Or at least only doors that don't go out of gauge when open.
 

fairysdad

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Very very normal practice on the Underground, and permitted there. It's a rarer sight on the big railway but not completely unheard-of, apart from freight trains which seem to have doors open very often - I guess they don't have to worry about interlocks et al?
Seen it a few times with HSTs during the summer months - I guess there's no AC in those cabs!

Some odd HTML coding in those there links - updated and fixed for you :)
 
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Cherry_Picker

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I'm not aware that it is against any regulations but it is only possible on some types of stock. The door needs to be both inward opening and excluded from the door interlock circuits.

Sometimes they come open whether you want them to or not. The 67 was a real pain in the backside for cab doors opening while moving, apparently it was/is something to do with the body of the loco twisting and bending slightly while at speed and the door catch being too small to hold it closed.

I don't think there is any real danger of the driver falling out of the train but it could be hugely distracting because of the excessive noise generated by an open door, it's particularly annoying if you are 50+ miles from your next scheduled stop. I certainly don't miss it.
 

tocguard

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You can often see this, even both doors open. Particularly XC and EMT with their voyagers and meridians. It is something that I've been told is actively encouraged if the driver feels they need the air circulation generated by doing so.
 

matchmaker

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When working (many years ago) on the SVR, on a hot day you hoped your train was made up of BR Standards, rather than LMS or GWR stock. The reason? The guard's door opened inwards, so you could keep it open and get a nice cool breeze.
 

FordFocus

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No harm in it.

Some of the HVAC systems can be woeful and quite stuffy plus Voyagers don't have open windows unlike Pendolinos. Sometimes the doors can come open if they aren't closed properly or the latch is faulty.

Fresh air is sometimes needed to stay alert in the cab, just can be noisy.
 

A-driver

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It's possible to drive with a 455cab door open aswell as long as the driver has his door key on. Most modern units have the cab door on interlock though.

It's generally frowned upon (if a manager saw they would probably point it out and ask you to shut it) but it's not technically against any regs.
 

ungreat

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Don't know re the door, but the high-intensity headlight is only ever on one side on any UK train.
Our 365s have both night and daytime headlights which moves the said headlight from left to right depending on mode selected.
 

Cherry_Picker

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68s now illuminate both day and night 'sides' headlight. Can be dimmed I believe.

Yes it's the same on both sides and there are three settings.

There is a high intensity beam, a 'normal' beam and a dim one which looks like two rings of light rather than solid circles. I tend to use the normal at night and the rings in the day, the high intensity beam could burn the surface off of the moon so I tend to keep myself from shining it in the eyes of others.
 
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Some big Chiltern locos regularly pass by my office window, which looks out onto the railway arches approaching Birmingham Moor Street, and the cab doors are often open. Sometimes with a guard (I presume) standing at them and leaning out!
 
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RPM

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I'd like to think that only inward opening doors would be excluded from interlock. Or at least only doors that don't go out of gauge when open.

I regularly drive units that have non-interlocked, outward opening cab doors, but it is not a common thing these days.
 

najaB

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I regularly drive units that have non-interlocked, outward opening cab doors, but it is not a common thing these days.
That has the potential to get quite noisy, quite quickly!
 

bramling

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Very very normal practice on the Underground, and permitted there. It's a rarer sight on the big railway but not completely unheard-of, apart from freight trains which seem to have doors open very often - I guess they don't have to worry about interlocks et al?

Whether it's permitted or not on LU is a bit of a grey area. I've never seen anything officially in writing stating it's not permitted, however I have known staff to be spoken to by managers if seen doing it.

Basically it's a case that the company can't condone it in case an incident occurs, but is happy to turn a blind eye. If anything bad happens, you can bet it will suddenly be forbidden.

There is the issue that having a cab door open on all modern LU stocks requires operating a (normally non-sealed) interlock cut-out switch, but the corporate blind eye applies here too.

I don't really see an issue with it -- the benefits of fresh air and better alertness probably outweigh the risks, which are falling out, something entering the cab, or worst-case scenario is less protection for the driver during a collision or derailment. By the driver having to consciously operate a cut-out switch, if any of these were to happen then I suspect it would reduce the company's liability for the consequences.
 

Domh245

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The S stock, and presumably 2009 stock as well, have got sealed interlock switches for the cab doors, so they must remain closed whilst in operation. The 1992TS have got a system whereby if the train is being driven manually, it can have the door open, but if it is operating in ATO, it can't - which is a fair system because you don't want to accidentally send a train off into the tunnel with the driver left on the platform!
 

cin88

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I see cab doors open all the time, I suppose it's one way of letting fresh air in without having said air buffetting your face whilst you're trying to focus.

I've seen a fair few freight drivers open their cab doors when they're stuck at a danger near Liverpool, probably just letting some fresh air in during the long wait they'll inevitably have whilst all the higher priority trains go through.
 

HMS Ark Royal

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Whether it's permitted or not on LU is a bit of a grey area. I've never seen anything officially in writing stating it's not permitted, however I have known staff to be spoken to by managers if seen doing it.

Basically it's a case that the company can't condone it in case an incident occurs, but is happy to turn a blind eye. If anything bad happens, you can bet it will suddenly be forbidden.

There is the issue that having a cab door open on all modern LU stocks requires operating a (normally non-sealed) interlock cut-out switch, but the corporate blind eye applies here too.

I don't really see an issue with it -- the benefits of fresh air and better alertness probably outweigh the risks, which are falling out, something entering the cab, or worst-case scenario is less protection for the driver during a collision or derailment. By the driver having to consciously operate a cut-out switch, if any of these were to happen then I suspect it would reduce the company's liability for the consequences.

I once asked somebody about this and it seems that if the temperature in the tunnels gets above a certain level, and the cab AirCon is InOp they may open the door. The guy I asked was a DI so I'm sure he'd be correct
 

Class 170101

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The D78 Stock on the District Line can operate this way with the cab door open. I wonder if its still a feature in its new guise?
 

Deepgreen

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Don't know re the door, but the high-intensity headlight is only ever on one side on any UK train.

Except on LUL (and possibly other metros) where the main lights are used on both sides. Whether they can be defined as 'high intensity' is moot, but they are certainly very bright (especially the LED type).
 

Radedamer

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It used to be not uncommon for buses to leave the (front) door open on a hot summer's day back in the 1970s – and it's not so long ago they didn't bother with doors at all in London! So I doubt it's particularly dangerous for the driver to have his door open. As long as it is only the driver!
 
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