End of Yellow Front Ends?

[Karl]

I noticed this from JaJaWa in another thread and being totally unaware of the change wondered if anyone else could add additional information as to how this came to be?

It's going to be strange to see units and locomotives without their traditional yellow fronts. I'm undecided what to think.

With no more yellow front ends from January, I presume it will look something like this (excuse the awful Photoshop!)

 

[AM9]

I noticed this from JaJaWa in another thread and being totally unaware of the change wondered if anyone else could add additional information as to how this came to be?

It's going to be strange to see units and locomotives without their traditional yellow fronts. I'm undecided what to think.

Not really. Many here remember trains without yellow fronts when they actually looked better. The speckled squashed fly and salt/oil smeared front wasn't so obvious and any styling/livery schemes looked much better.
I would expect the current craze for white base-coloured stock to fade away and schemes to make better use of the new freedom.

 

[driver9000]

It only applies if a certain level of front lighting is met which I understand existing stock doesn't meet so they will require yellow ends. The only loco that meets the new regs is the 68 as far as I'm aware.

 

[DarloRich]

Not really. Many here remember trains without yellow fronts when they actually looked better. The speckled squashed fly and salt/oil smeared front wasn't so obvious and any styling/livery schemes looked much better.
I would expect the current craze for white base-coloured stock to fade away and schemes to make better use of the new freedom.

they might look better but the Yellow end is easier to see at track level. Personally i don't care about the aesthetics as long as i see the front of the train coming!

 

[sprinterguy]

This was previously discussed within the thread announcing the livery of the Crossrail stock. Here is the relevant part of the standard:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2368312&postcount=11

I understand that this is shall no longer be required due to improvements in headlights. I will try to find a link to this information.

Edit: I believe this is it, from this document

Originally Posted by RSSB GM/RT2131
Historically, RGS GM/RT2483 required the front of trains to include a yellow warning
panel, in order to increase their visibility to members of the public and trackside staff.
The LOC & PAS TSI does not have a requirement for the colour of the front of trains,
thereby giving the transport operator a choice. The presence of a head lamp meeting
the requirements of the TSI is considered to give a sufficient visual warning that a train
is approaching; whilst the combination of that head lamp along with the marker lamp
layout is considered to make an approaching train identifiable as a train.

 

[BestWestern]

they might look better but the Yellow end is easier to see at track level. Personally i don't care about the aesthetics as long as i see the front of the train coming!

It does seem a tad disingenuous having some trains with yellow front and others without...

 

[Domh245]

It does seem a tad disingenuous having some trains with yellow front and others without...

Which is why until there is an entire fleet of trains with compliant headlights (class 345), you probably won't see liveries without it

 

[Trog]

So much for staff safety being the number one priority.

 

[dave87016]

I got told off my friend who works for TPE that the yellow at the front on class 185's is also used as a indicator of where the first class carriage is. as they can be at either end of the train

 

[221129]

I got told off my friend who works for TPE that the yellow at the front on class 185's is also used as a indicator of where the first class carriage is. as they can be at either end of the train

How does that work if both ends are yellow? :roll:

 

[sprinterguy]

I got told off my friend who works for TPE that the yellow at the front on class 185's is also used as a indicator of where the first class carriage is. as they can be at either end of the train

That would be the yellow strip on the bottom of the coupler at one end, not the yellow warning panel (which features at both ends out of necessity).

 

[dave87016]

on the TPE 185's I believe they are only yellow at the front of the train of one carriage ( where the first class compartment is)

Thanks Sprinterguy I failed to clarify the correct part as per my post thanks pal

 

[221129]

on the TPE 185's I believe they are only yellow at the front of the train of one carriage ( where the first class compartment is)

As SprinterMan says, you mean the little stripe on the coupler not the warning panel on both ends of the train.

 

[dave87016]

Yes that's correct Ollieb - oh dear I guess I need a cup of coffee

 

[ComUtoR]

So much for staff safety being the number one priority.

Why ?

Staff are still protected and it comes with a caveat that headlights meet a higher standard.

TOWS
Lookouts
Possessions
Blue fencing
restricted speeds
Late notice case

Not not forgetting the high vis clothing or the Driver's requirement to blow up when sighting people within the boundary fence.

 

[Juniper Driver]

How does that work if both ends are yellow? :roll:

First Class both ends.

 

[swt_passenger]

Which is why until there is an entire fleet of trains with compliant headlights (class 345), you probably won't see liveries without it

I'd have expected many recent classes such as 387s and 379s also have compliant headlights. They are surely only what has been generally fitted for the last few years, having followed this subject since it was first mentioned.

Presumably representatives of people directly involved have already had an opportunity to respond to the official consultation, or are we to believe RSSB ignored the responses?

 

[185]

Staff are still protected and it comes with a caveat that headlights meet a higher standard.

I see an issue here. Headlights & reds do fail, it happens even with newer types of lamp.

If a headlight on a non-yellow end set fails and a temporary battery operated bardic/equiv is slung on the front, how, even with a threshold-reduced speed limit, is that 'as' safe?

 

[Trog]

Why ?

Staff are still protected and it comes with a caveat that headlights meet a higher standard.

TOWS
Lookouts
Possessions
Blue fencing
restricted speeds
Late notice case

Not not forgetting the high vis clothing or the Driver's requirement to blow up when sighting people within the boundary fence.

The yellow ends are easier to see than headlights in some conditions, particularly heat shimmer. Also as painting the front of the train yellow costs nothing as it would need painting anyway. Even if the benefit is only small it must be worth doing.

 

[ExRes]

Seems to me that it's all down to one choice, are we interested in safety or aesthetics ?, for me there's no choice whatsoever, safety comes first every time

 

[ComUtoR]

I see an issue here. Headlights & reds do fail, it happens even with newer types of lamp.

They fail all the time.

If a headlight on a non-yellow end set fails and a temporary battery operated bardic/equiv is slung on the front, how, even with a threshold-reduced speed limit, is that 'as' safe?

I know the rules and do not see an issue when running without headlights. (its quite restrictive) Is it "as" safe. No, but the increased risk is minimal and if it was a non yellow end I would hope that additional restrictions are required without headlights. I don't support the change but I am highly aware that staff on the line are well trained professionals and the procedures that are in place are safe.

The protections for those on the line are quite high. The lookout does a very good job and is often in a position of safety.

 

[Crossover]

That would be the yellow strip on the bottom of the coupler at one end, not the yellow warning panel (which features at both ends out of necessity).

To be more precise, the electric box cover

Seems to me that it's all down to one choice, are we interested in safety or aesthetics ?, for me there's no choice whatsoever, safety comes first every time

As an informed outsider, it does seem a little retrograde...

 

[Ploughman]

Why ?

Staff are still protected and it comes with a caveat that headlights meet a higher standard.

TOWS
Lookouts
Possessions
Blue fencing
restricted speeds
Late notice case

Not not forgetting the high vis clothing or the Driver's requirement to blow up when sighting people within the boundary fence.

Do IWA's still exist?
Because I frequently used to out and about on my own.
Responsible for my own safety.
Yellow ends are better for visibility especially on an undulating line when the lights may be down in the dip.

 

[455driver]

Why ?

Staff are still protected and it comes with a caveat that headlights meet a higher standard.

TOWS
Lookouts
Possessions
Blue fencing
restricted speeds
Late notice case

Not not forgetting the high vis clothing or the Driver's requirement to blow up when sighting people within the boundary fence.

What about the weekly track inspection carried out under red zone working and by necessity the staff could be anywhere on the route!

 

[NSEFAN]

Yellow ends are better for visibility especially on an undulating line when the lights may be down in the dip.

Isn't one of the requirements for new stock to have lights at the top of the vehicle for this very purpose? If anything that aught to be more visible than the yellow warning panel closer to the floor of the vehicle.

 

[Blamethrower]

Yellow fronts are an outdated requirement for a train in my opinion. With new lamps and increased safety requirements, clearly they're not needed.

Trains for me aren't about just the engineering, aesthetics matter too. 395s look great as yellow goes with blue, and 373s and 374s for the same reason. Most other liveries look terrible with a yellow patch on the front. Virgin got creative with the 390 and made a hideous yellow smile, but I guess it matches the childlike interior.

Let's take the opportunity to design some truly beautiful trains without being hamstrung by ancient, outdated safety requirements

 

[455driver]

Yellow fronts are an outdated requirement for a train in my opinion. With new lamps and increased safety requirements, clearly they're not needed.

Trains for me aren't about just the engineering, aesthetics matter too. 395s look great as yellow goes with blue, and 373s and 374s for the same reason. Most other liveries look terrible with a yellow patch on the front. Virgin got creative with the 390 and made a hideous yellow smile, but I guess it matches the childlike interior.

Let's take the opportunity to design some truly beautiful trains without being hamstrung by ancient, outdated safety requirements

I take it from your post that you work trackside on a regular basis and have first hand experience of having trains bearing down on you at 100mph*!



*other speeds are available.

 

[Marklund]

What about the weekly track inspection carried out under red zone working and by necessity the staff could be anywhere on the route!

Precisely. Staff can be rapid responded anywhere.
As I've said in the previous thread, angle of view can make a huge difference, and also as Trog has pointed out heat shimmer too.

ComUtoR, track staff are under bombardment with rule changes eating away at safety. SWL being the latest farce.

COSS + 1 needs no Site Warden when working Green Zone, but all it takes is a slight lapse in concentration to step back from a location case closer to the line than what you perhaps should be.

Every tool in the box should be deployed to help keep staff safe.
Removing yellow warning panels is simply a case of aesthetics over safety.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Do IWA's still exist?
Because I frequently used to out and about on my own.
Responsible for my own safety.
Yellow ends are better for visibility especially on an undulating line when the lights may be down in the dip.

Not sure. I used to be one. I always looked in the up and down direction every 10 /15 seconds or so. Always saw the train before the yellow bit on the front. Even working in possesions or with lookouts I always kept looking myself. I remember one Sunday morning having a possesion of the down line east of Ashford station (pre HS1) and looked up to see a Eurostar coming towards us on the down. Told the COSS only to see the Eurostar cross to the up track and pass us wrong line with a friendly wave from the driver despite having to drop from 90 to 40mph.

 

[Goldfish62]

It does seem a tad disingenuous having some trains with yellow front and others without...

In Belgium generally SNCB domestic trains have yellow panels, but ICEs, Thalys and TGVs don't. Some SNCB locos/MUs which haven't been painted for about 600 years have mere yellow whiskers.