Oyster PAYG - Underground between NR destinations

[DynamicSpirit]

A couple of days ago I started a journey from Abbey Wood to Charing Cross - which I'd normally make entirely on National Rail. However, there was extensive disruption because of the weather - SouthEastern temporarily stopped running to Charing Cross - so accordingly I swapped to the DLR at Woolwich Arsenal, to complete the journey via Jubilee then Northern line. I assumed, that since I was now using National Rail AND TfL trains, I'd have to pay a much higher fare, but was pleasantly surprised when I checked my Oyster journey history to find I'd only been charged the National-Rail-only fare of £2.80. This despite that I exited Charing Cross from the underground barriers, so the system should have been able to tell that I had used the underground.

I'm slightly curious as to on what basis the system would have charged me a national rail only fare? Does it only consider which stations you entered or exited at, and ignore whether you entered/exited via barriers that only lead to national rail, or only lead to the Underground? Or would there be some other reason why I was charged a national rail fare for that particular journey? Am I correct in assuming that I would have been charged more if I'd exited at any neighbouring station (such as Embankment)?

 

[greatkingrat]

According to the Single Fare Finder, journeys to Charing Cross LU, Embankment LU and Cannon Street LU are charged at the NR only rate. Other nearby stations like Westminster or Temple are charged at the TfL+NR rate.

I suspect this may be something to do with the ticket acceptance currently in place as a result of the London Bridge works?

 

[MikeWh]

I suspect this may be something to do with the ticket acceptance currently in place as a result of the London Bridge works?

Correct!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

According to the Single Fare Finder, journeys to Charing Cross LU, Embankment LU and Cannon Street LU are charged at the NR only rate. Other nearby stations like Westminster or Temple are charged at the TfL+NR rate.

I suspect this may be something to do with the ticket acceptance currently in place as a result of the London Bridge works?

Ah, thanks, that makes sense.

Out of interest, does that mean that if I do something like

• SouthEastern to Cannon Street, touch out, then touch in to get the Underground to Embankment, or
• SouthEastern to London Bridge, touch out, then touch in to get the Jubilee line to Waterloo

then those would each also be charged as one single journey at National Rail rates?

 

[bicbasher]

Ah, thanks, that makes sense.

Out of interest, does that mean that if I do something like

• SouthEastern to Cannon Street, touch out, then touch in to get the Underground to Embankment, or
• SouthEastern to London Bridge, touch out, then touch in to get the Jubilee line to Waterloo

then those would each also be charged as one single journey at National Rail rates?

That's correct, I've been commuting to Charing Cross on Southern to London Bridge, then the tube and been charged the NR rate since January 2015.

It may all change in August when there's no direct service to Cannon St from London Bridge, but even then I suspect the NR fare between Cannon St and Embankment/Charing Cross will still be in place.

 

[Romilly]

The short answer, as regards both of those, is "Yes".

See this (lengthy) link about ticket acceptance during the London Bridge works:

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/your-journey/about-thameslink-programme/ticket-acceptance/

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The short answer, as regards both of those, is "Yes".

See this (lengthy) link about ticket acceptance during the London Bridge works:

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/your-journey/about-thameslink-programme/ticket-acceptance/

A very informative link.

Oh dear. You wouldn't believe how many journeys I've made where I travelled at slightly non-ideal times in order to get a direct Charing Cross train, on the assumption that if I got a Cannon Street train and then used the underground, I'd get charged more I guess this thread is going to save me a fair bit of time in the future.

Interesting that the concession applies to some bus routes too. I guess that's potentially open to some abuse, since once a person has got on a bus, there's no way to verify that they got off at a location for which the concession applies, but I'd imagine the number of people making journeys that could allow that abuse is too small for TfL to worry about.

 

[Romilly]

Glad to help.

Also, the current morning peak 2-hour gap between Charing Cross trains should last only until the timetable changes in August 2016 that will coincide with Charing Cross trains starting to stop, and Cannon Street trains ceasing to stop, at London Bridge. The proposed timetable from August onwards planned to plug that gap.

 

[Regeff]

I don't think it's specifically mentioned in the publicity for the London Bridge changes, but if you've arrived at Cannon Street NR and suddenly realise you need to get to Waterloo, your PAYG won't be charged if you walk to Bank (it's not far - I usually go via St Swithins Lane, more or less opposite Cannon Street station) and take the Waterloo & City Line to Waterloo. Just don't forget to touch out at the W&C validators at Waterloo.

 

[amateur]

Correct!

whats a single from z1-z3 on oyster? and what's the daily cap if traveling between z1-z3 during off peak. i.e. weekends?

is stratford london classed as Zone 2 or zone 3?

And, if you use oyster PAYG from STP - Stratford Int. (fast train), how much would it cost there and back?

 

[MikeWh]

This could almost be a new thread ...

whats a single from z1-z3 on oyster?

It depends what routes you travel on. Between £3.10 and £5.00 peak, £2.50 to £4.00 off-peak. The highest fares only apply if you mix certain NR routes with Underground/DLR. Full details at: http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/fares-guide/single-fares-2016/

and what's the daily cap if traveling between z1-z3 during off peak. i.e. weekends?

Adult is £7.60 any time, any day.

is stratford london classed as Zone 2 or zone 3?

Both! If you travel from zone 1 or zone 2 to get there then it's zone 2, if you travel from zone 3 and beyond to get there it's zone 3.

And, if you use oyster PAYG from STP - Stratford Int. (fast train), how much would it cost there and back?

£5.40 peak, £3.80 off-peak. These fares do NOT count towards any caps.

 

[amateur]

This could almost be a new thread ...


It depends what routes you travel on. Between £3.10 and £5.00 peak, £2.50 to £4.00 off-peak. The highest fares only apply if you mix certain NR routes with Underground/DLR. Full details at: http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/fares-guide/single-fares-2016/

Adult is £7.60 any time, any day.

Both! If you travel from zone 1 or zone 2 to get there then it's zone 2, if you travel from zone 3 and beyond to get there it's zone 3.

£5.40 peak, £3.80 off-peak. These fares do NOT count towards any caps.

Is a day travelcard valid on STP to Strat Int. And for that matter are day travelcards valid on LO?

 

[bb21]

Yes LOROL, no on High Speed between St Pancras and Stratford Int. The fare quoted by MikeWh is each way.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Doing some more investigating on this, I've just noticed that Abbey Wood to Kings Cross is charged at the combined Underground + National Rail rate - £4.30 off-peak. This seems a bit of an oversight in terms of London Bridge rebuild arrangements, since in normal circumstances you could do that journey on national rail only - using Thameslink to get from London Bridge to Kings Cross/St Pancras.

Abbey Wood-Farringdon is even odder: Charged at national rail rates (£2.80 off-peak) if you avoid changing at a London terminus - which presumably means using the DLR from Woolwich to Bank, but combined rates if you do change at somewhere like Charing Cross or Cannon Street. Again, this is a journey that in normal circumstances could be made on national rail only.

 

[MikeWh]

Doing some more investigating on this, I've just noticed that Abbey Wood to Kings Cross is charged at the combined Underground + National Rail rate - £4.30 off-peak. This seems a bit of an oversight in terms of London Bridge rebuild arrangements, since in normal circumstances you could do that journey on national rail only - using Thameslink to get from London Bridge to Kings Cross/St Pancras.

You do have to be careful what you ask for. Kings Cross St Pancras is an Underground station so will always charge the combined fare. St Pancras International is the required National Rail station and the fares charged for that are correctly National Rail only. At the moment you would struggle to make the journey, I guess Abbey Wood - Lewisham - Denmark Hill - St Pancras might do it.

Abbey Wood-Farringdon is even odder: Charged at national rail rates (£2.80 off-peak) if you avoid changing at a London terminus - which presumably means using the DLR from Woolwich to Bank, but combined rates if you do change at somewhere like Charing Cross or Cannon Street. Again, this is a journey that in normal circumstances could be made on national rail only.

Again it's correct and the same suggestion applies. You could go via Bank as long as you're sure that you wouldn't need to go through the internal barriers.