70014IronDuke
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 Jun 2015
- Messages
- 3,686
Excuse the question if it is glaringly obvious to many in here, but this is an area I don't understand in the now divided railway.
I assume that if a regional or county transport authority wants to see improvements to services in its area, then it has to stump up for the studies and evaluations, and consult NR and the relevant TOCs in working out what can be done. But what about internally, within the railway industry?
Let's assume a TOC wants to improve a service.
It could be a 'minor' change, eg let's say EMT wants to put a couple more stops on the the morning Boston-Grantham train (seems easy, but it might cause chaos at Grantham if there is no capacity to delay the train by 5 minutes).
Or it could be a 'big' request let's say Northern wanted to run every second Nottingham-Leeds train onto Carlisle over the S&C which as has been discussed on here, would mean crossing all lines at Leeds a potentially highly disruptive move.
Question: does the TOC have to pay NR for each requested timetable change or study? And who decides, in the end, if (as in the examples), the cost or disadvantages of the changes are not worth implementing? What power has the TOC got to push its case if it thinks NR has made the wrong decision, or just can't be bothered to work on the item suggested? Can it appeal to the DfT or ?
And does it work the other way round? If someone at Network Rail has idea, and NR puts forward a proposal to a TOC, do they charge for the idea, or any study undertaken to evalueate an idea?
Eg, a few weeks ago The Planner mentioned that studies (he implied there had been several) had revealed that increasing the line speed on the S&C did not stack up as a business case - by which I took him to mean the returns from faster journeys and improved stock turnrounds would not match the costs incurred in raising the line speed from 60 mph to (I assume) 70 mph.
Is this a two-way thing? Does/did NR undertake this study - or others like it - off its own back? Did it consult Northern in doing so? Or do managers or committee in NR launch internal studies on an entrepreneurial basis for improvements, hoping for a return if a TOC takes up their suggestions?
I assume that if a regional or county transport authority wants to see improvements to services in its area, then it has to stump up for the studies and evaluations, and consult NR and the relevant TOCs in working out what can be done. But what about internally, within the railway industry?
Let's assume a TOC wants to improve a service.
It could be a 'minor' change, eg let's say EMT wants to put a couple more stops on the the morning Boston-Grantham train (seems easy, but it might cause chaos at Grantham if there is no capacity to delay the train by 5 minutes).
Or it could be a 'big' request let's say Northern wanted to run every second Nottingham-Leeds train onto Carlisle over the S&C which as has been discussed on here, would mean crossing all lines at Leeds a potentially highly disruptive move.
Question: does the TOC have to pay NR for each requested timetable change or study? And who decides, in the end, if (as in the examples), the cost or disadvantages of the changes are not worth implementing? What power has the TOC got to push its case if it thinks NR has made the wrong decision, or just can't be bothered to work on the item suggested? Can it appeal to the DfT or ?
And does it work the other way round? If someone at Network Rail has idea, and NR puts forward a proposal to a TOC, do they charge for the idea, or any study undertaken to evalueate an idea?
Eg, a few weeks ago The Planner mentioned that studies (he implied there had been several) had revealed that increasing the line speed on the S&C did not stack up as a business case - by which I took him to mean the returns from faster journeys and improved stock turnrounds would not match the costs incurred in raising the line speed from 60 mph to (I assume) 70 mph.
Is this a two-way thing? Does/did NR undertake this study - or others like it - off its own back? Did it consult Northern in doing so? Or do managers or committee in NR launch internal studies on an entrepreneurial basis for improvements, hoping for a return if a TOC takes up their suggestions?