Trams proposed for Isle of Wight

[Mikey C]

Chris Garnet's Report suggest's its far from clear, if there is detailed knowledge little if any of it has been public.



The Catamaran is generally hourly with extra sailings inbetween in the evening and at busy times - a loop in the vicinity of Brading would allow both to operate twice per hour timed to meet, without incurring the costs of 3tph.



It most certainly is, there's nothing funny about being walking along a half mile pier in a winter storm completely exposed to the weather - with no public transport alternative it is here to stay.

As for the Hovercraft, it fulfills a niche but the Catamaran is the principal passenger service for most people especially Islanders with its greater capacity and a far better located terminal at Portsmouth Harbour, while able to operate in almost all weather conditions.

Won't most Islanders be driving across anyway, so will be using one of the car ferry links?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Won't most Islanders be driving across anyway, so will be using one of the car ferry links?

I think that you have to remember the number of HGV that are essential to the Isle of Wight in bringing essential foodstuffs to the supermarket chains and goods to all retail and wholesale outlets. I wonder when the last time was that any strategic planning that was discussed in Parliament when another mode of access to the Isle of Wight received discussion time.

Every time that we have used the ferries to the Isle of Wight, there always have been a large number of such HGV queuing in the loading lanes for the ferries.

 

[341o2]

There was a plan for a tunnel, but as I recall it was at the western end of the island.

The proposal was to have a branch coming off the Lymington line, which would run to Keyhaven, then tunnel under the Solent to link with the Island lines near Yarmouth

It would be interesting to consider how the Island's economy might have developed had this line be constructed

One of the factors why it never went ahead was disagreement between the various pregrouping companies regarding competition with the Portsmouth - Ryde crossing

 

[Chris125]

Won't most Islanders be driving across anyway, so will be using one of the car ferry links?

Not if you can avoid it, the car ferries are slow and very expensive - that's why there are three foot services all year round.

 

[Stroud Valleys]

Would the rolling stock from Glasgow's underground be sufficient for the Island Line?

 

[Domh245]

Would the rolling stock from Glasgow's underground be sufficient for the Island Line?

The Glasgow Subway stock is a non-standard gauge (4ft instead of 4ft, 8 & 1/2") so wouldn't be able to run on the Island Line without significant (read expensive!) alteration

 

[Elecman]

Parry people movers ?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

For the line to have tamping done, do they have a machine over there or does one get sent over from the main land?

 

[Chris125]

Parry people movers ?

Not remotely suitable.

For the line to have tamping done, do they have a machine over there or does one get sent over from the main land?

They occasionally bring one over.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not remotely suitable.

Are they not?

Parry might well be able to build a 2-car version of the longer bogied PPM with a suitably low roof (and possibly a lower floor) for an attractive price. Unlike most rolling stock builders, one-off small builds are their thing.

 

[Chris125]

Parry might well be able to build a 2-car version of the longer bogied PPM with a suitably low roof (and possibly a lower floor) for an attractive price. Unlike most rolling stock builders, one-off small builds are their thing.

Anything is possible but the complexity, reliability and performance required would be on a whole different level to their current design which really isn't suitable.

 

[Argosy]

Eh, I still want the railway to stay, but this idea isn't too bad and would probably make a significant difference to the cost of running the line in terms of maintenance and revenue.
Plus, if Manchester is anything to go by, there would be great opportunities to open up old lines on the island - I reckon that if the service came to Newport and Cowes it could be a viable transport option.

It would be virtually impossible to ever serve Newport or Cowes again unless you were to spend probably a few billion.

The total lack of forethought on the Island vis a vis traffic especially Newport and cross Medina traffic makes me quite mad. I moved there in 1964 and have seen most of the changes. Many retrograde steps.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do you honestly believe that the introduction of trams into Newport would see traffic matters of all types improve there if this mode of transport was added to the current scenario? Newport with its centrally situated bus station is indeed the public transport hub of the island where buses serve all the major settlements of the island from.

Yes I do. Newport Paul is a fantastic example of how successive highway engineers have made a total pig's ear of traffic on the Island. An absolute mess and terrible legacy for the current and future generations.

I have lost count of the different schemes various IoWCC now IoWC County Surveyors have introduced and all it does is make matters worse.

What they should have done is build the Medina bridge back in the early 70's. In the middle of the Island most traffic is either coming into or out of Newport or wants to get from the ports of Yarmouth, East Cowes and Fishbourne to either Ryde, Newport or the Sandown/Shanklin connurbation.

An obvious alignment presented itself, namely Forest Road across to Seaclose and Whippingham to Arreton via Wootton Common and on to Sandown. By following these alignments that would have kept most of the through traffic away from the Coppins Bridge area of Newport, immortalised in the early 1980's by the superb professionally designed sign erected near to the crematorium suitably adorned with the IoWCC seahorse coat of arms "The Isle of Wight County Council welcomes you to the Coppins Bridge tail back scheme. The expected delay to your journey is anticipated to be in the region of 20 minutes."

Now of course due to lack of foresight the area east of Forest Road is Industrial estate making it darn near impossible to do this. Once upon a time the southern part of St Mary's Hospital was clapped out prefab units. As usual on the Island thinking was too short term.

Now we have a semi-permanent traffic jam clogging up Newport. If only the railways could have hung on a tad longer we could have replaced the lot with a decent tram system.

The only lines (as routes) that needed to close were Brading - Bembridge and Merstone - Ventnor West, since a Cowes - Ventnor option was available via Sandown.
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Extending rail links on the island is a very difficult proposition due to the contours of the land,houses and other settlements etc.The current line is not a profitable operation conversion to trams would be a good idea but will require careful thought as to were it could be extended to.Buses give excellent connections throughout the island and are well used by the locals and holiday makers.Roads are narrow and can be very congested and if trams did appear there would have to be much off road running which would be costly.So overall I think that the buses will cope with the traffic on offer and that the current rail offering will still be viable for its segment of traffic so ignore the rants of mp,s.

People will just move to cars.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The proposal was to have a branch coming off the Lymington line, which would run to Keyhaven, then tunnel under the Solent to link with the Island lines near Yarmouth

It would be interesting to consider how the Island's economy might have developed had this line be constructed

One of the factors why it never went ahead was disagreement between the various pregrouping companies regarding competition with the Portsmouth - Ryde crossing

Principally the first World War.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The only lines (as routes) that needed to close were Brading - Bembridge and Merstone - Ventnor West, since a Cowes - Ventnor option was available via Sandown.

No-one would doubt what you say above. With regards the Bembridge area, would you say that the frequency of the number 8 bus service is suitable for the needs of those with no cars?

 

[Townsend Hook]

It would be virtually impossible to ever serve Newport or Cowes again unless you were to spend probably a few billion.

Not to mention that to serve Newport you'd almost certainly have to close one of the Island's most popular tourist attractions (the steam railway), which isn't exactly great with a tourism-based economy.

 

[Stroud Valleys]

Would something similar to this be suitable:

http://www.parrypeoplemovers.com/PPM130.htm

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...ultra-light-rail-service-in-the-west-midlands

 

[Townsend Hook]

Would something similar to this be suitable:

http://www.parrypeoplemovers.com/PPM130.htm

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...ultra-light-rail-service-in-the-west-midlands

There or thereabouts, if it was maybe a lengthened a little to match the '38 stock capacity, and fitted for multiple working.

 

[pemma]

Is the 3rd rail in the Isle of Wight life expired? If not surely the option of cascaded trams + new overheads should be examined alongside the cost of new/cascaded units which run on 3rd rail.

 

[Stroud Valleys]

Is the 3rd rail in the Isle of Wight life expired? If not surely the option of cascaded trams + new overheads should be examined alongside the cost of new/cascaded units which run on 3rd rail.

i would personally go for some new parry people movers that were long enough to meet existing capacity needs, overhead electrify the whole route so that its easier to expand the network if finance allows in the long term

 

[Chris125]

Would something similar to this be suitable:

http://www.parrypeoplemovers.com/PPM130.htm

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...ultra-light-rail-service-in-the-west-midlands

I believe Parry were aware of Chris Garnett's report into the future of the line, so presumably either chose not to be involved or were considered unsuitable.

The most obvious stumbling block is the performance, given the need to complete a round trip between the hourly Catamaran sailings - can their design even meet the timings of the existing trains, let alone allow extra stops as proposed in Mr Garnett's report?

 

[swt_passenger]

I believe Parry were aware of Chris Garnett's report into the future of the line, so presumably either chose not to be involved or were considered unsuitable.

They were involved in Island Line proposals but JPA (the consultancy arm) ran into financial problems at the same time and it sort of fizzled out.

It's all covered in a couple of pages in their own newsletter issue 71 here: http://www.parrypeoplemovers.com/pdf/NL71.pdf

Interestingly he compares the heights of tube and SSR stock, with figures...

 

[Townsend Hook]

If the worst came to the worst and the Island Line was closed, reinstating the pier tram with Parry People Mover or similar vehicles would seem to be the next best option for transport along the pier.

 

[LBSCR Times]

If the worst came to the worst and the Island Line was closed, reinstating the pier tram with Parry People Mover or similar vehicles would seem to be the next best option for transport along the pier.

Considering the train half empties out at Ryde Esplanade, more so on a wet day!

 

[Argosy]

No-one would doubt what you say above. With regards the Bembridge area, would you say that the frequency of the number 8 bus service is suitable for the needs of those with no cars?

The problem with retaining Bembridge is that there is no other natural terminal point without a reversal which costs time and operational flexibility.

In the timescale under review and during much of my time on the Island the service I think was half hourly, which I would consider totally reasonable for Bembridge. Now it is hourly. The 8 is one of the few services that by number has not changed in over 50 years (as the 4 and 5) although its route now takes in what I remember as part of the 43.

The difficulty with serving those 'with no cars' is that isn't what the provision of bus services is about. In that case an hourly service might be considered a luxury.

I can't see us ever being without cars, actually, although what a 'car' is in the future is of course open to interpretation!

 

[Argosy]

Not to mention that to serve Newport you'd almost certainly have to close one of the Island's most popular tourist attractions (the steam railway), which isn't exactly great with a tourism-based economy.

Which is personally why I think they should expand their operations, but that's another story!

 

[yorksrob]

The problem with retaining Bembridge is that there is no other natural terminal point without a reversal which costs time and operational flexibility.

In the timescale under review and during much of my time on the Island the service I think was half hourly, which I would consider totally reasonable for Bembridge. Now it is hourly. The 8 is one of the few services that by number has not changed in over 50 years (as the 4 and 5) although its route now takes in what I remember as part of the 43.

The difficulty with serving those 'with no cars' is that isn't what the provision of bus services is about. In that case an hourly service might be considered a luxury.

I can't see us ever being without cars, actually, although what a 'car' is in the future is of course open to interpretation!

Frankly somethings got to be about those with no cars, and if bus provision isn't, I don't know what is. Unless you want the country to become even more of a motor infested traffic jam.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Trying to follow the route from the end of the steam railway at Wooton, it appears that the old track bed has been built on so a new route would have to be chosen.

If the Island Line doesn't get expanded it'd be nice to see the steam railway extended into Ryde St Johns, it would also make it easier for people to reach the steam railway as well

 

[Chris125]

Trying to follow the route from the end of the steam railway at Wooton, it appears that the old track bed has been built on so a new route would have to be chosen.

I'd suggest having a look at the following executive summary of a 2001 report into extending to Newport/Cowes/Ventnor.

http://old-iwight.onthewight.com/li.../Transport_Strategies/images/IWCRailStudy.pdf

 

[HSTEd]

The only reason a tram solution would be worthwhile is if the Island was to receive a comprehensive tram network covering at least as much route mileage as existed on the island in 1914.

 

[southern442]

The only reason a tram solution would be worthwhile is if the Island was to receive a comprehensive tram network covering at least as much route mileage as existed on the island in 1914.

I think that if we MUST do something, trams would be the best option, because they could take a leaf out of Metrolink's book and get some huge expansions going. It won't be difficult to get everyone on the island to use the trams with a large network, and it would do good for the environment.

But, as I hinted earlier, MUST we do anything? Will it really be that bad if we just leave it as it is?

 

[Argosy]

Frankly somethings got to be about those with no cars, and if bus provision isn't, I don't know what is. Unless you want the country to become even more of a motor infested traffic jam.

I don't disagree with your sentiment. But Govt policy isn't about providing public transport for those with no cars. At local authority level it is largely about passenger numbers versus cost of provision. And that's it. Frankly it is only about budgets.