Trams proposed for Isle of Wight

[SpacePhoenix]

When I was on holiday over on the IoW a couple of years ago now, the bus route that runs between Yarmouth and Newport was quite well used as was the one that went from Newport to Ryde so for the two combined as a tram route the demand is there but it probably would't be easy to ever build

 

[Mikey C]

I think that if we MUST do something, trams would be the best option, because they could take a leaf out of Metrolink's book and get some huge expansions going. It won't be difficult to get everyone on the island to use the trams with a large network, and it would do good for the environment.

But, as I hinted earlier, MUST we do anything? Will it really be that bad if we just leave it as it is?

I'm not sure Manchester and the Isle of Wight are exactly comparable in terms of public transport needs.

Manchester is a large urban conurbation, while the IOW has a small number of scattered small towns. If the current rail line didn't exist, I doubt anyone would be in a hurry to build one as the numbers would never stack up when compared to rival projects on the mainland

 

[Stroud Valleys]

i think its fair to say that any decision to expand the current network on the iow is a long term project, and one that will not be made any time soon.

the problem is what to do in the short-term, especially as investment and replacement of the current rolling stock is needed within 5-10 years time. I agree with the idea of exploring trams and/or parry people movers as a replacement to the current rolling stock, and install a new loop at brading to enable trains/trams/people movers whatever to run on a 30 minute frequency, or 20 minute during times of high demand.

could ticket barriers be installed at the ryde stations to ensure that everything has purchased tickets - surely there must be a significant number who get through the system, especially if a ticket inspection is restricted to a single carriage.

maybe smallbrook junction could be connected to the nearby road and turned into a park and ride facility for the ryde-portsmouth passenger ferry - plenty of space nearby for car parking and for use as a station down south to sandown etc

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When I was on holiday over on the IoW a couple of years ago now, the bus route that runs between Yarmouth and Newport was quite well used as was the one that went from Newport to Ryde so for the two combined as a tram route the demand is there but it probably wouldn't be easy to ever build

Has a budgetary costing ever recently been prepared and an estimated time period of construction given for this Ryde-Newport-Yarmouth line. How much road-running and how much off-road track laying would be envisaged and are there any areas where traffic problems can be expected during the time of the road-running construction?

 

[Chris125]

When I was on holiday over on the IoW a couple of years ago now, the bus route that runs between Yarmouth and Newport was quite well used as was the one that went from Newport to Ryde so for the two combined as a tram route the demand is there but it probably would't be easy to ever build

We need to be realistic here - buses between Ryde-Newport-Cowes are far more frequent and carry far more people all year round than those serving the West Wight. With all the will in the world Yarmouth and Freshwater will not regain a railway service.

Has a budgetary costing ever recently been prepared and an estimated time period of construction given for this Ryde-Newport-Yarmouth line. How much road-running and how much off-road track laying would be envisaged and are there any areas where traffic problems can be expected during the time of the road-running construction?

I don't think reopening to Freshwater and Yarmouth has ever been seriously suggested, let alone costs investigated - it closed relatively early in 1953 for a reason.

There's a link to a 2001 study suggesting some possible costings for Ventnor, Newport and Cowes on the previous page though they seem a little optimistic...

 

[Argosy]

i think its fair to say that any decision to expand the current network on the iow is a long term project, and one that will not be made any time soon.

the problem is what to do in the short-term, especially as investment and replacement of the current rolling stock is needed within 5-10 years time. I agree with the idea of exploring trams and/or parry people movers as a replacement to the current rolling stock, and install a new loop at brading to enable trains/trams/people movers whatever to run on a 30 minute frequency, or 20 minute during times of high demand.

could ticket barriers be installed at the ryde stations to ensure that everything has purchased tickets - surely there must be a significant number who get through the system, especially if a ticket inspection is restricted to a single carriage.

maybe smallbrook junction could be connected to the nearby road and turned into a park and ride facility for the ryde-portsmouth passenger ferry - plenty of space nearby for car parking and for use as a station down south to sandown etc

Have you ever been to Smallbrook Junction by road? It's in the middle of nowhere.

It is some distance from any semblance of a main road not far from the local athletics track accessed off a lane and some way from the main road between Ryde and Sandown. It is totally impractical to consider it as a park & ride site (or maybe that should be Ride for Ryde!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

We need to be realistic here - buses between Ryde-Newport-Cowes are far more frequent and carry far more people all year round than those serving the West Wight. With all the will in the world Yarmouth and Freshwater will not regain a railway service.




I don't think reopening to Freshwater and Yarmouth has ever been seriously suggested, let alone costs investigated - it closed relatively early in 1953 for a reason.

There's a link to a 2001 study suggesting some possible costings for Ventnor, Newport and Cowes on the previous page though they seem a little optimistic...

Yes but Chris things have changed dramatically since 1953. A doubling of the IoW population for a start!

A system largely following the FYN is not that daft except that when you come to Gunville one is stuffed. The obvious is to try and thread a way across to St Mary's/College but linking Carisbrooke High with that would be difficult. They would be the two main traffic generators by volume. The High School for 40 odd weeks in the year, really heavy peaky demand and the hospital/college continual demand but at a lower level.

I am very much behind a tram system for the IoW. To me it is a no brainer. Having lived there since 1964 I've seen the changes and from a traffic point of view it is horrendous. Crap road surfaces, a shed load of traffic - some highly seasonal and never any money to carry out serious road maintenance.

Not for nothing did IoWCC put up the signs 'Island roads are different' near to ferry terminals. Too right they are! By comparison (and the serious underfunding of all LA roads in the UK) the gap now between 3rd world IoW and the 2nd world mainland has narrowed considerably than what it was in the 1970's I can assure you, but in the long run having a transport system that provides access to the main corridors is the obvious way to go. Sadly I can't see there being the money to do so and thus this wretched situation will continue.

Car drivers don't generally like buses, so switching is not 'natural'. Car drivers prefer train/tram like systems. Luckily or otherwise it doesn't bother me. I started using buses at 5 when I was in Sheffield and regularly commuted from St Helens then Cowes to Ryde for school and later to Carisbrooke from Cowes and Brighstone. But I did grow up in the era when getting a car was considered important and I think that influenced a lot of people and thinking.

As mentioned in a previous post the loss of Freshwater - Newport, Cowes, Newport - Ryde, Newport - Sandown and Shanklin - Ventnor were bad decisions and have contributed to the mess we are in today on the Island. I don't think a heavy rail system would have survived but conversion to even diesel or lpg powered tram might have been an answer.

It would have been so easy. Carisbrooke station close to the High School (allowing the closure of West Wight secondary modern, which did happen), perhaps a station/halt for what was Medina High on the way to Ryde. It may also have helped get more children to Sandown by rail from the Arreton valley area.

Some reduction in large buses would have been possible. Because of the school traffic Vectis keep a large fleet of deckers as operating smaller vehicles just ups the cost base when they need the volume. Not much point keeping a load of smaller vehicles when you need 70 odd seaters to take a bunch of pubescent neanderthals home at 4pm on a Tuesday afternoon (been there, t-shirt, scars etc.)

 

[Chris125]

Have you ever been to Smallbrook Junction by road? It's in the middle of nowhere.

It won't be for much longer.

The controversial Pennyfeathers scheme has recently been approved, which will see a large housing development between the station and the main road - previous iterations of this scheme even included public access to the station. More will no doubt follow.

While I don't think another P&R would make sense when there's one at St Johns, if public access was resurrected it would put the large Tesco Extra and Westridge Business Park within walking distance.

I am very much behind a tram system for the IoW. To me it is a no brainer. Having lived there since 1964 I've seen the changes and from a traffic point of view it is horrendous.

As an Island resident all my life I am only too aware!

 

[baz52]

There an item in my rail mag this week about , conversion of the line on IOW, from london tube train , to the old Midland metro trams , because the Midland Metro had brand new tram fleet, and the old ones would be ideal for the island line as would be much cheaper to run, and why the lack of investment on the island,? Plus also it might be possible to run a line from say ryde to newtown, its many years since last went to the isle of wight lovely erea, good roads and buses, and those days ventor had it own bus stn.

 

[Chris125]

There an item in my rail mag this week about , conversion of the line on IOW, from london tube train , to the old Midland metro trams , because the Midland Metro had brand new tram fleet, and the old ones would be ideal for the island line as would be much cheaper to run, and why the lack of investment on the island,? Plus also it might be possible to run a line from say ryde to newtown, its many years since last went to the isle of wight lovely erea, good roads and buses, and those days ventor had it own bus stn.

I'd suggest looking back through this thread, where this has been discussed at some length.

It is a proposal by Chris Garnett, who has compiled a report for the local council which they've submitted to the government's franchise consultation.

Btw I think you probably mean Newport, rather than Newtown

 

[baz52]

Yes Newport, sorry, like I said happy memories, on the island, we used to stay in ventor lovely little town , but anyway I do hope the island has much improved transport in the future.

 

[HSTEd]

What if the tram system was a Silesian Tramways esque ultra lightweight single track system using those new tiny Alstom trams (or 'streetcars' like they use in Portland in the US?)
That would seriously reduce the supply costs.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What if the tram system was a Silesian Tramways esque ultra lightweight single track system using those new tiny Alstom trams (or 'streetcars' like they use in Portland in the US?)
That would seriously reduce the supply costs.

No-one has mentioned re-gauging the bogies (?) of the trams on the Seaton Tramway, which surely could have no size problems with the tunnel....

 

[randyrippley]

why not regauge the track to 3 feet or 1 metre and use new lightweight Seaton-style trams? Or maybe get some of the spare stock from the Isle of Man?

 

[Argosy]

Btw I think you probably mean Newport, rather than Newtown

That'd be good! We could have a Georgian style replica coach.

'Oyez, oyez, the good burghers of Newtown welcome you to the former capital of the Isle of Wight. Change here for the Nature Reserve and the short (hee hee) stroll to Shalfleet'.

 

[southern442]

If you can create cheap and convenient enough tram routes to other towns on the island you could effectively replace the long distance bus services.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If you can create cheap and convenient enough tram routes to other towns on the island you could effectively replace the long distance bus services.

Create cheap and convenient tram routes? What type of budgetary-costed construction methods and tram sourcing is being suggested here?

All that said, the "long-distance bus services" do tend to run on normal roads with stops at convenient distances apart, so why suggest replacing them. I had to chuckle at the term "long-distance" bus services when applied to the Isle of Wight compared to what I normally assume such services to be on the mainland, such as the Yorkshire Coastliner routes that start at Leeds, for example.

 

[Mikey C]

Create cheap and convenient tram routes? What type of budgetary-costed construction methods and tram sourcing is being suggested here?

All that said, the "long-distance bus services" do tend to run on normal roads with stops at convenient distances apart, so why suggest replacing them. I had to chuckle at the term "long-distance" bus services when applied to the Isle of Wight compared to what I normally assume such services to be on the mainland, such as the Yorkshire Coastliner routes that start at Leeds, for example.

Going towards to the Lizard and West of the Island the buses bomb along empty rural roads! Definitely no need for anything else there

 

[Bletchleyite]

Going towards to the Lizard and West of the Island the buses bomb along empty rural roads! Definitely no need for anything else there

I'd imagine anywhere else a bit of dedicated bus infrastructure/bus lanes would solve any likely problem. For the pier, an automatic people mover of some sort could be built - would be a lot more use for the pier shuttle than anything else.

Or, thinking of the nuclear option, what is ridership like on the catamaran? Is it even needed?

 

[pompeyfan]

The 'new' fast Cats are far more durable during adverse weather then their main competition, the Hovercraft. During the day outside of peak times loadings are quiet, but during peaks, or half term/summer trade sees a big increase.

 

[Chris125]

Or, thinking of the nuclear option, what is ridership like on the catamaran? Is it even needed?

Haven't we been through this before? The Catamaran is well used and essential to the Island and Ryde in particular.

Not only is it's future secure but it has justified substantial investment in recent years - two new replacement craft, a complete renewal of the facilities and berthing arrangements on both sides, a larger carpark at Ryde Pier Head and a very costly overhaul of the listed pier itself.

These upgrades have also allowed it to operate reliably in most weather conditions, including those that recently saw the Hovercraft, Red Jet and Lymington-Yarmouth car ferry all cancelled.

 

[southern442]

Create cheap and convenient tram routes? What type of budgetary-costed construction methods and tram sourcing is being suggested here?

All that said, the "long-distance bus services" do tend to run on normal roads with stops at convenient distances apart, so why suggest replacing them. I had to chuckle at the term "long-distance" bus services when applied to the Isle of Wight compared to what I normally assume such services to be on the mainland, such as the Yorkshire Coastliner routes that start at Leeds, for example.

Well, you know what I mean

My reasoning was that, judging by previous posts, buses on the island seem to be well used. If we take a bus route from Newport to Cows for example, not particularly long distance I know, but we will use this as an example. There seems to be a large demand for transport between these two towns, so if a tram route is built as cheaply as possible, replacing the bus services, lots of people would use it, so it would generate enough revenue to pay for itself. Then there are the added benefits of less air pollution and freeing up road space (in theory).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well, you know what I mean

My reasoning was that, judging by previous posts, buses on the island seem to be well used. If we take a bus route from Newport to Cows for example, not particularly long distance I know, but we will use this as an example. There seems to be a large demand for transport between these two towns, so if a tram route is built as cheaply as possible, replacing the bus services, lots of people would use it, so it would generate enough revenue to pay for itself. Then there are the added benefits of less air pollution and freeing up road space (in theory).

One simple query. How many existing bus stops for the convenience of bus passengers are there between Newport and Cowes (I suppose you did not mean to make a bovine connection) and how many tram stops do you envisage being constructed in your proposed tram route.

 

[southern442]

One simple query. How many existing bus stops for the convenience of bus passengers are there between Newport and Cowes (I suppose you did not mean to make a bovine connection) and how many tram stops do you envisage being constructed in your proposed tram route.

I didn't realise that I spelt it like that!

I think that, assuming the service begins in Newport Town Centre, there should be the following stops:

• Newport Town Centre
• A stop to serve the college and 'Hunny Hill' area
• St. Mary's Hospital
• A stop or two for the Parkhurst area
• Potentially a stop to make up for the bus stops inbetween Parkhurst and Northwoord
• Northwood
• A stop for the Industrial estates
• A couple of stops in the south of Cowes

The line would then end in the town centre with a stop or two there.

 

[Argosy]

Create cheap and convenient tram routes? What type of budgetary-costed construction methods and tram sourcing is being suggested here?

All that said, the "long-distance bus services" do tend to run on normal roads with stops at convenient distances apart, so why suggest replacing them. I had to chuckle at the term "long-distance" bus services when applied to the Isle of Wight compared to what I normally assume such services to be on the mainland, such as the Yorkshire Coastliner routes that start at Leeds, for example.

To be fair Paul some of the longer distance routes do take a lot of time a couple of hours plus. Over the years the Vectis have changed things around. I remember when the 27, 28 and 29 were extended back from Newport to Ryde and when the 11 and 12 ran from Sandown to Freshwater. These would constitute a couple of hours or so on the bus.

Nowadays I think it is the summer only Coaster which is the longest service Ryde - Sandown - Blackgang - Freshwater Bay - Yarmouth. Not a natural route for a tram!

 

[Stroud Valleys]

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...onversion-proposed.html#.VtLKVAP3u4E.facebook

Isle of Wight light rail conversion proposed

 

[swt_passenger]

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...onversion-proposed.html#.VtLKVAP3u4E.facebook

Isle of Wight light rail conversion proposed

That's just a late Railway Gazette report on the same Garnett report which started this thread off, mentioned in the first post on page 1.

There's a link to the actual report a few days later, in post #66, and a better direct link in post #116. Nothing new in Railway Gazette's piece AFAICT..

 

[The Ham]

That's just a late Railway Gazette report on the same Garnett report which started this thread off, mentioned in the first post on page 1.

There's a link to the actual report a few days later, in post #66, and a better direct link in post #116. Nothing new in Railway Gazette's piece AFAICT..

The only possible thing is that it is reporting that the IoW council will be considering the report next month (given the article's date I would suggest that means March), other than that nothing that I can spot other than details which are within the report.

 

[Argosy]

One simple query. How many existing bus stops for the convenience of bus passengers are there between Newport and Cowes (I suppose you did not mean to make a bovine connection) and how many tram stops do you envisage being constructed in your proposed tram route.

I think there are 18.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I didn't realise that I spelt it like that!

I think that, assuming the service begins in Newport Town Centre, there should be the following stops:

• Newport Town Centre
• A stop to serve the college and 'Hunny Hill' area
• St. Mary's Hospital
• A stop or two for the Parkhurst area
• Potentially a stop to make up for the bus stops inbetween Parkhurst and Northwoord
• Northwood
• A stop for the Industrial estates
• A couple of stops in the south of Cowes

The line would then end in the town centre with a stop or two there.

Well Cowes was actually named after cows so there you go. (East and West Cowe).

Is you tram proposal to run on the street? If so what advantages do you see over the bus to which it would be a hideously expensive replacement.

 

[southern442]

I think there are 18.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Well Cowes was actually named after cows so there you go. (East and West Cowe).

Is you tram proposal to run on the street? If so what advantages do you see over the bus to which it would be a hideously expensive replacement.

My plan is to run off-road (but roughly alongside it) with street running in town centres where it is unavoidable.

 

[aylesbury]

Trams will not be suitable for the IOW due to the roads being narrow and congested. Buses can and do provide excellent services throughout the island with cheap daily and weekly tickets. There's also a scheme where if you scrap your car you get a years travel on all routes. All the ferry terminals have buses that stop beside them and most routes use Newport as a hub this is where people who live on the island want and need to go regularly.

I do wonder how the rail option can be justified in light of the alternative transport modes on offer. Having experienced the response by Southern Vectis to major events plus using the services on regular days they are the best solution perhaps with improved access to roads via dedicated bus roads and bus lanes were possible but its a very difficult place to move around is the IOW.