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What do you (dis-)like most about train travel within the UK?

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richieb1971

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My main pet peeve with the railways is the lack of East West routes where I live, but this is being addressed with the EWR.

Pricing is too high in some cases, especially when you are not guaranteed a seat.

And nobody has designed a train with a front window seat :lol:
 

Minilad

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Pretty much everyone, from the top to the bottom.

And frankly if you are comparing the railways to a second hand car dealer, you have accepted there is a problem.

What utter drivel. And quite frankly disrespectful to the vast vast majority of rail workers who are nothing of the sort.
 

TimG

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26 Jul 2014
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UK example: Annual ticket Brighton to London: GBP 4096 (80km)
Belgium example: Annual ticket Liege to Brussels: EUR 2229 = GBP 1722 (95km)
Netherlands example: Annual ticket Nijmegen to the Hague: EUR 3984 = GBP 3078 (137km)

Does anyone still think UK fares are good value? :)

(Sources: nationalrail.co.uk, sncb.be, ns.nl - routes chosen at random)

Not sure how relevant train fares in other countries with higher subsidies is.

Can you find a better value way to do this journey? i.e. under 15p a mile? If so, why does everyone get the train?
 

Envoy

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Expensive one way fares with returns sometimes only £1 more. This discourages people from using the railway to tour the country.

Some return fares are dearer if you stay away for a longer period. Why should that be? You are taking a seat on the a train & doing the same miles.

Having to purchase split tickets because they often screw you for long distance tickets. This is often occurs where you have to change company en-route but sometimes can occur when you change trains with the same company. When someone buys a through ticket, it should be the cheapest available and the computer systems of the different TOC's should 'talk to each other' to give the passenger the cheapest deal. Between Scotland & the south - it is often cheaper to fly than use the train.

Whilst I appreciate the peaks & troughs of demand, it is a real pain having to book specific trains yonks ahead in order to get a lower fare. For leisure travel, I would rather travel by car as then I can decline to make the journey should the weather be bad or I am ill without incurring loss. I would like to see the railways have a 3 colour system for fares with train schedules marked in green on timetables as offering the lowest fares and orange being the highest. Where a journey crosses two such zones, we could have mid priced fares with schedules marked in yellow. Using such a system for turn up and go fares would be much more user friendly and induce more people to travel by train. Unfortunately, the rail industry does not want more people travelling as they don't have enough rolling stock - hence the high fares.

Poor quality trains such as Voyagers. Cross Country are stuck with narrow bodied trains that don't have the advantage of tilting on bends in order to keep up speed. Who ever was the idiot who thought these would be good for long distance travel? Seats not aligned with windows and seat backs reflecting on the windows.

Diesel trains (Virgin Voyagers) making entire journeys under wires on the WCML whilst their is a chronic shortage of such trains on non electrified routes.
 
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NoMorePacers

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Poor quality trains such as Voyagers. Cross Country are stuck with narrow bodied trains that don't have the advantage of tilting on bends in order to keep up speed. Who ever was the idiot who thought these would be good for long distance travel?

Diesel trains (Virgin Voyagers) making entire journeys under wires on the WCML whilst their is a chronic shortage of such trains on non electrified routes.
Well, CrossCountry did isolate the tilt on the 221's, which was a stupid idea, and the only unelectrified line Virgin Voyagers actually go on is the North Wales Coast line. Virgin used to run a Pendolino to Crewe, then have a class 57 tug it along the North Wales Coast line. Not anymore, wasting the Voyagers. I totally agree with you on these.
 

Minilad

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Well, CrossCountry did isolate the tilt on the 221's, which was a stupid idea, and the only unelectrified line Virgin Voyagers actually go on is the North Wales Coast line. Virgin used to run a Pendolino to Crewe, then have a class 57 tug it along the North Wales Coast line. Not anymore, wasting the Voyagers. I totally agree with you on these.


Why was it a stupid idea to isolate tilt on XC 221. Tilt on XC would not provide much in the way of time savings and then only on the Birmingham - Manchester route. Isolating tilt makes the XC 221s more reliable too.
Made absolute sense in reality
 

NoMorePacers

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Poor quality trains such as Voyagers. Cross Country are stuck with narrow bodied trains that don't have the advantage of tilting on bends in order to keep up speed. Who ever was the idiot who thought these would be good for long distance travel? Seats not aligned with windows and seat backs reflecting on the windows.
The bit in bold that you put is why I put 'a stupid idea'.
 

richieb1971

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Expensive one way fares with returns sometimes only £1 more. This discourages people from using the railway to tour the country.

Some return fares are dearer if you stay away for a longer period. Why should that be? You are taking a seat on the a train & doing the same miles.

Having to purchase split tickets because they often screw you for long distance tickets. This is often occurs where you have to change company en-route but sometimes can occur when you change trains with the same company. When someone buys a through ticket, it should be the cheapest available and the computer systems of the different TOC's should 'talk to each other' to give the passenger the cheapest deal. Between Scotland & the south - it is often cheaper to fly than use the train.

Whilst I appreciate the peaks & troughs of demand, it is a real pain having to book specific trains yonks ahead in order to get a lower fare. For leisure travel, I would rather travel by car as then I can decline to make the journey should the weather be bad or I am ill without incurring loss. I would like to see the railways have a 3 colour system for fares with train schedules marked in green on timetables as offering the lowest fares and orange being the highest. Where a journey crosses two such zones, we could have mid priced fares with schedules marked in yellow. Using such a system for turn up and go fares would be much more user friendly and induce more people to travel by train. Unfortunately, the rail industry does not want more people travelling as they don't have enough rolling stock - hence the high fares.

.


Its supply and demand. The trains that I feel are too expensive to travel on, I sometimes have to stand. So if the train is full, why would the TOC lower the price?

The split ticket issue is something I ran into a few years ago. Where from Wellingborough to Leicester was £21 return. But from Bedford to Leicester was £60 return. So £29 extra for a 15 mile 1 stop situation. I drove to Wellingborough in the end and got the £21 ticket. I should have just drove the whole way to be honest.

Some days I can get Carlisle for £30 from MKC, but on East Midlands they wanted £70+ to get to Chesterfield. In the end I didn't go.

Ticket prices in the UK are bonkers.
 

PHILIPE

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Well, CrossCountry did isolate the tilt on the 221's, which was a stupid idea, and the only unelectrified line Virgin Voyagers actually go on is the North Wales Coast line. Virgin used to run a Pendolino to Crewe, then have a class 57 tug it along the North Wales Coast line. Not anymore, wasting the Voyagers. I totally agree with you on these.

Ever heard of Shrewsbury or Blackpool ?
 

Minilad

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Idea:idea::
Run a Birmingham-Manchester service with a train with tilt ON.

But why? The time saved would be minimal and probably would need a lot of timetable alterations to make everything fit.
Tilting trains are not the be all and end all. I would rather have a more reliable train than a tilting one
 

NoMorePacers

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But why? The time saved would be minimal and probably would need a lot of timetable alterations to make everything fit.
Tilting trains are not the be all and end all. I would rather have a more reliable train than a tilting one
Now about my Virgin Voyager post
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ever heard of Shrewsbury or Blackpool ?
Yes but they were added AFTER the Pendolino drags dissapeared
 

anme

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Not sure how relevant train fares in other countries with higher subsidies is.

Can you find a better value way to do this journey? i.e. under 15p a mile? If so, why does everyone get the train?

It seems very relevant in a thread about what people like and dislike about UK railways. This is something I dislike.

I suspect most people get the train because it's the only practical way to make the journey.
 

Envy123

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9 Apr 2015
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Peterborough
Counting the tube, lately with the overcrowding on the Piccadilly Line, I had to resort to using NR instead, even though the trains are kinda shabby and the service is infrequent.

My post from another thread sums up just how bad it's become to commute from Arnos Grove at peak times over the last few years from my experience (I needed to go from Arnos Grove/New Southgate to Stepney Green):

I preferred New Southgate because it was relatively less packed than the Piccadilly Line, and I was very likely to get a seat at Finsbury Park (the peak trains ran fast to Finsbury Park, rather conveniently). So, GN to Moorgate then the H&C Line became my route of choice to university in the third year. Sure, they're both less frequent but the time difference is negligible and I get a seat for most of my journey, even in peak times.

Comparing this to my route via Arnos Grove and King's X - uncomfortable tube ride with no chance of a seat and stops at 9 stations. Then, it's the luck of a draw that I get on a H&C line train, never mind getting a seat. I missed a few 9am classes this way, so NR saved my hide for the 9am lectures.

There's no easy fix for the overcrowding, sadly.
 

broadgage

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11 Aug 2012
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1,094
Location
Somerset
Likes
Being able to enjoy drink in moderation, not safe or legal if driving.
Dining on board in one of the few trains that still offer this service.
Usually quicker than driving or flying.
Very safe mode of transport.

Dislikes.
Overcrowded services especially when the railway industry has made it worse by making trains shorter.
New trains with minimal leg room.
New trains with no catering.
Astronomical walk up fares, and no guarantee of a seat with the most expensive tickets, whereas cheaper advance tickets get a reservation.
Reduced first class, now nearly as crowded as steerage on some services.
Hugely complicated ticketing system.
Breakdowns and delays, I appreciate that these have always occurred, but in recent years we have had an increase in major signalling failures that result in no effective service for hours.
 

al78

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7 Jan 2013
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Not sure how relevant train fares in other countries with higher subsidies is.

Can you find a better value way to do this journey? i.e. under 15p a mile? If so, why does everyone get the train?

Not everyone does get the train, as is demonstrated by daily congestion on parts of the UK motorway network.

For optimal value, drive and find three other people who wish to do the same journey, then divide the mileage costs amongst all four people. That would be cheaper per individual, I expect, than all those four people each paying to travel by train. The driving option also negates the possibility of having to pay for a bus or taxi from origin to station, then from station to destination, but on the other hand there is the possible added expense of parking at the destination.
 

urbophile

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Not sure how relevant train fares in other countries with higher subsidies is.

Can you find a better value way to do this journey? i.e. under 15p a mile? If so, why does everyone get the train?

It's very relevant to a discussion on likes and dislikes about train travel in the UK, if one of the 'dislikes' is the reason for these higher fares. Not so much lack of state support; subsidies are massive but largely go into the pockets of shareholders, or funding an inefficient bureaucracy to allocate funds between companies, rather than a nationally owned and funded network run as a public service. But we won't see any change as long as British people keep voting for Tory governments.
 

Andrewlong

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Joined
2 Jan 2013
Messages
373
Location
Earley
Likes:
* Rail safety is really good
* Network is getting the investment it needs but it's taking too long to see reopened lines and electrified lines
* improvement in customer service over BR days

Dislikes:
* voyagers - can't we have mk3 stock with a loco on the front?
* paper tickets - can't we have the option of e-tickets or smart cards?
* lack of real competition on many lines and innovation
* Peak walk on fare pricing
 

Merseysider

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22 Jan 2014
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Birmingham
Like:
  • Return fares are often excellent value for money compared to single fares - normally costing only 10p more. In Europe you generally have to shell out for two singles.
  • Food included in 1st Class. It's not the norm in central Europe to get meals for free in 1st.
  • Delay Repay is very generous.
  • The complexity of the fares structure means there's always loopholes lying around.
  • Dirt-cheap TOC specific fares.

Dislike:
  • Lack of integrated multi-modal ticketing. In Germany, I can buy an inclusive single ticket valid on bus, train, metro and tram for a journey between two towns 500km away. In the UK, it often involves buying a bus ticket to the station, a rail ticket and then a ticket for the tram afterwards.
  • How absolutely sh*te some of the rolling stock still on our railway is. I've been to countries in Europe, under communist rule less than 25 years ago, where 142s wouldn't even dream of showing up. And here in our capitalist, democratic, advanced society we still have that Pacer crap rolling around.
  • Privatisation has undoubtedly led to a degree of fragmentation. I don't need to present that argument here.
  • Lack of overnight trains. Granted, there may not be as much demand as on the continent, but you can get to pretty much anywhere in Europe on a sleeper from Germany. Here, we have only two sleeper routes and very limited night trains.
  • How pretty much everything, except for St Pancras, some airport services and TVMs, is in English only. European countries generally have information in the native language and English, so I think we should make more of an effort to make it easier for those visiting us.
 

waterboo

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24 Jul 2013
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When a good service is operating, generally the railways can be quite a pleasant experience. Now lets say that an incident such as the "wrong sunlight" happens to cause commuter chaos, the whole network is awash with absolute hysteria. Pinstriped men scuffle aboard a train, only for it two be cancelled two stops later down the metals in short notice. Woman are left cradling their crying children on the platforms whilst simultaneously holding their 4 seat buggy with the other hand. Helpless commuters can only stare at the woman out of the narrow, unaligned windows as the train is held at a red starting signal with all the passenger doors locked. The army of orange hi-vis are armed only with a rain-soaked piece of paper, being forced to improvise as they are heckled by infuriated commuters.

Incidents on the rail network are inevitable, but surely, we must be able to find a better way to inform passengers, and recover the service promptly.
 

Bletchleyite

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Not everyone does get the train, as is demonstrated by daily congestion on parts of the UK motorway network.

For optimal value, drive and find three other people who wish to do the same journey, then divide the mileage costs amongst all four people. That would be cheaper per individual, I expect, than all those four people each paying to travel by train. The driving option also negates the possibility of having to pay for a bus or taxi from origin to station, then from station to destination, but on the other hand there is the possible added expense of parking at the destination.

True, but then full cars are not really to be discouraged, as a full car is an environmentally efficient method of transport, and also one making relatively good use of road space.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
[*]Lack of overnight trains. Granted, there may not be as much demand as on the continent, but you can get to pretty much anywhere in Europe on a sleeper from Germany. Here, we have only two sleeper routes and very limited night trains.

You know Germany and France are removing near enough all sleeper trains this year? Much to my surprise, as someone who often travelled the night trains of Germany in the 1990s, it's the UK night trains that have proven to be the survivors.
 

coppercapped

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It's very relevant to a discussion on likes and dislikes about train travel in the UK, if one of the 'dislikes' is the reason for these higher fares. Not so much lack of state support; subsidies are massive but largely go into the pockets of shareholders, or funding an inefficient bureaucracy to allocate funds between companies, rather than a nationally owned and funded network run as a public service. But we won't see any change as long as British people keep voting for Tory governments.

How many more times must it be pointed out that for the last 4 years or so train operation and day to day operation and maintenance of the infrastructure requires no government subsidy?

The Network Grant of some £3 billion per year now goes exclusively to Network Rail and is used for two purposes - one is payment of the interest on the debts run up by Network Rail since the days of Alastair Darling and the other is paying for enhancements to the system as laid out in the agreements for this Control Period. Admittedly in the last case the 'bang for the buck' is somewhat less than one would expect, but without it there would be no electrification, flyovers and other improvements.
 

beeza1

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4 Oct 2012
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I dislike the fact that tickets are date specific, for instance on a return ticket you have to specify the date of your outward journey, ok you get a very small amount of flexibility on an "anytime" ticket, but these are usually expensive.
I will be making a return journey sometime towards the end of this week, not sure exactly which day, as I live 10 miles away from my nearest manned station I will have to make a 20 miles round trip just to get my tickets, I can't risk buying on the day due to time constraints, print at home is not available on this journey so that is not an option either.
The return half of a ticket is valid for a month, so why can't the outward half be?
Ironically I was at the station yesterday, and could have bought my tickets then if there was a little more flexibility.
 

Kite159

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[*]How pretty much everything, except for St Pancras, some airport services and TVMs, is in English only. European countries generally have information in the native language and English, so I think we should make more of an effort to make it easier for those visiting us.[/list]

But which languages would you want the station signage to be in to make it easier for those visiting (keeping in mind the wide-range of tourists who visit the UK)?
 
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