Evening Standard article - skip stopping

[MichaelAMW]

If they put stop orders in for other trains it would delay those passengers to. So by making you wait it helps try and keep the delays to a minimum. Lol.

Harrow was one they would miss out with the added bonus that London Midland and TfL didn't seem to like talking to one another so you wouldn't know about cancellations always. Don't know if things Ave improved since I stopped commuting there.

Delay minutes don't add up: a train with 500 people on that is 10 minutes late is 10 minutes late; a train with 10 people on that is 20 minutes late is 20 minutes late. The first train doesn't have more "lateness" because it's busier: an individual's lateness is not affected by the lateness of anyone else. Therefore, a busy train running a bit late should never miss stops if even a single person is made later as a result. I mean that right to it's limit, so every train for the entire rush hour out of Waterloo can run 10 minutes late if the alternative plan makes a single person 30 minutes late. Keeping delays to minimum only works at the level of a train not a person. The only rational reason for skip stopping is to avoid the sevice getting worse or collapsing because of people and trains being out of place.

You'll probably tell me I'm mad but, as I said, lateness is not something that is experienced as a group activity so all that matters to "me" is that any lateness is minimised.

 

[Busaholic]

In much the same way, at least on the Southern where I worked on telephone enquiries around 1980. There were fewer trains and passengers then, but with basic frequencies half hourly, at least as inconvenient.

xx42 VA-ON calling HH, PE, BJ, BP only - have I got the old telegraph codes right?

PS to comply with forum rules it's Victoria, Orpington, Herne Hill, Penge East, Beckenham Jn, Bromley S.

Interesting - I have absolutely no recollection of any trains on that line missing stops, although I ceased to use it for about three years from mid 1980. Admittedly, I wouldn't have been using any of the omitted stations, other than Shortlands on occasion.

 

[LBSCR Times]

You have to wonder how this was handled a generation ago when such tactics were generally unknown.

Back in the late 70's / early 80's, it was a regular event with the semi-fast Victoria / Brighton services.
Used to miss out stations between Gatwick and Brighton or v.v. due to only a 12 minute turn-round at Brighton.

Also, the xx.05 Victoria to Bognor services would either terminate Barnham or drop in to the Barnham - Bognor shuttle, but that was when those services were all formed of Vep stock.

 

[Taunton]

Well I recall how it was handled a generation ago on the Edinburgh-Glasgow "High Speed" in the 1970s. 2 x Class 27 and 6 Mk 2 coaches, every 30 minutes, 45 minute journey time and 15 minutes turnround. 90 mph line speed, although not infrequently they were up towards 100 mph. The High Speed was closely followed out of each terminus by two other services, then an interval where other services, including much freight at the time, was slotted in before the next one.

Sounds like four sets in use all day, but in fact there were five, after an early morning extra run the fifth stood up at Cowlairs, all ready to be called down to Queen Street if an inbound looked at all late. And this was regularly done to keep the service rolling along. As a result it was extremely reliable all day long, any delay was confined to one rotation from Glasgow.

 

[chrisdoward]

Interesting - I have absolutely no recollection of any trains on that line missing stops, although I ceased to use it for about three years from mid 1980. Admittedly, I wouldn't have been using any of the omitted stations, other than Shortlands on occasion.

The only time I can remember a train skipping stops when I lived in West Dulwich, was one that was fast to Sydenham Hill, then Bromley South. It was only a little further to walk.

 

[30907]

The only time I can remember a train skipping stops when I lived in West Dulwich, was one that was fast to Sydenham Hill, then Bromley South. It was only a little further to walk.

That's an interesting choice, as I recall from my commuting days that Sydenham Hill wasn't that busy. And in the evening peak the norm would be to make all the stops and then run back fast. Not that it happened that often anyway.

 

[southern442]

I'm not entirely against this practice - if there is another train to that station in 10 minutes or less, or if the station is lightly used, then I think it can be justified. For example, East Grinstead trains sometimes stop at South Croydon, and I think that when they are delayed (which they always are) this station should be skipped as nobody uses it. Also Riddlesdown should be skipped in the case of serious delay as I've never seen anyone get off there, although I know there are people that do use the station regularly so that would be a last resort.

 

[robbeech]

What sort of saving would a service that takes say 1hr from end to end with for example 10 stops make if it only called at 5 of them? how many actual minutes are we talking?

If i look at the train that runs through my village. The Worksop to Nottingham line. Generally services from one end to the other are timed at about 63 to 65 minutes. Throughout the day there are a few that are booked to stop at Newstead and others aren't. Some stop at Bullwell, others don't. The last service northbound calls at every stop and is timed for 63 minutes. It's rarely more than a minute late anywhere but can be fairly busy on a Friday night for example. It's currently running as 2W27.

The empty run back to Nottingham as DOO running as 5D28 is timed at 60 minutes.

I appreciate all lines are different but not stopping AT ALL in this case only seems to save 3 minutes.

 

[louis97]

What sort of saving would a service that takes say 1hr from end to end with for example 10 stops make if it only called at 5 of them? how many actual minutes are we talking?

If i look at the train that runs through my village. The Worksop to Nottingham line. Generally services from one end to the other are timed at about 63 to 65 minutes. Throughout the day there are a few that are booked to stop at Newstead and others aren't. Some stop at Bullwell, others don't. The last service northbound calls at every stop and is timed for 63 minutes. It's rarely more than a minute late anywhere but can be fairly busy on a Friday night for example. It's currently running as 2W27.

The empty run back to Nottingham as DOO running as 5D28 is timed at 60 minutes.

I appreciate all lines are different but not stopping AT ALL in this case only seems to save 3 minutes.

5D28 runs a slightly different route, via Pinxton. This connects to the Erewash line at Ironville Junction, this route via Pinxton is quite slow.

It would be faster than 60 minutes if it went the route the normal service takes via Bulwell. Indeed it is quicker than the normal service between Worksop and Kirkby in Ashfield (Where the line to Pinxton diverges), about 8 minutes quicker.

 

[Sprinter153]

Ah, the Standard, much like the Metro, that pinnacle of fine railway journalism.

Must have been a slow news day. Once again the railway gets bashed either way. If they left the stops in the suffering/distraught/poor commuters would be furious/angry/incandescent (or other sensationalist hyperbole as appropriate) at the further delay to the service. A nice lazy story for a 'journalist' to dream up whilst on their train home.

These two papers have a lot to answer for regarding the general misinformation of the travelling public regarding the railway and the very sound reasons for some (not all) delays. I realise good news stories about the railway don't shift newspapers but it's damaging to the industry and the staff (who are often unfair victims of the nonsense written, and the victums of abuse that they gee up some of the more unscrupulous passengers to dole out).

The railway isn't perfect, I know that, but the vitriol that gets printed fuels misinformation and generates the 'fury' of itself and any response or explanation the industry gives is ridiculed (or 'blasted' to use a beloved media expression).

As for MPs, of course they're never going to stand by the railway. It's an easy points score come election time. My local MP seems to have made a career of moaning about the railway and writing snotty letters to Southern.

 

[southern442]

Ah, the Standard, much like the Metro, that pinnacle of fine railway journalism.

Must have been a slow news day. Once again the railway gets bashed either way. If they left the stops in the suffering/distraught/poor commuters would be furious/angry/incandescent (or other sensationalist hyperbole as appropriate) at the further delay to the service. A nice lazy story for a 'journalist' to dream up whilst on their train home.

Well, they couldn't find anything about Jeremy Corbyn to poke fun at so it had to be the railways this time!

 

[furnessvale]

When PPM was devised, it wasn't set at 100% but at a margin underneath because there was an awareness that all sorts of external issues can arise. But operators seem to think that if their target is 90% and they achieve 90%, that's perfection.

Shades of the "On time" days in the late 1960s when, for one day, everybody tried to make the trains run on time.

My comment, " aren't we supposed to do this every day" used to fall on stony ground.

 

[Via Bank]

Must have been a slow news day. Once again the railway gets bashed either way. If they left the stops in the suffering/distraught/poor commuters would be furious/angry/incandescent (or other sensationalist hyperbole as appropriate) at the further delay to the service. A nice lazy story for a 'journalist' to dream up whilst on their train home.

Almost as if passengers have a right to be angry when they have paid a fare with the intention of travelling at a certain time, only to be delayed and suffer personal inconvenience and discomfort when that service is delayed or cancelled (particularly when it's the Railway's fault.)

These two papers have a lot to answer for regarding the general misinformation of the travelling public regarding the railway and the very sound reasons for some (not all) delays. I realise good news stories about the railway don't shift newspapers but it's damaging to the industry and the staff (who are often unfair victims of the nonsense written, and the victums of abuse that they gee up some of the more unscrupulous passengers to dole out).

Almost as if passengers have a right to be angry when the service they have paid for is delayed or cancelled (particularly when it's the Railway's fault.)

As for MPs, of course they're never going to stand by the railway. It's an easy points score come election time. My local MP seems to have made a career of moaning about the railway and writing snotty letters to Southern.

Almost as if his or her constituents (or the MP themselves, presuming they sometimes use the rail service) have a right to be angry when the service they have paid for is delayed or cancelled (particularly when it's the Railway's fault.)

Unfortunately GTR are digging themselves deeper into their own hole. If anyone is damaging the railway industry, it's them, and their failure to (a) recover the service in a timely manner, and (b) provide adequate customer information and aftercare when things go wrong.

 

[Busaholic]

The only time I can remember a train skipping stops when I lived in West Dulwich, was one that was fast to Sydenham Hill, then Bromley South. It was only a little further to walk.

There are too many 'important people' using West Dulwich now for that to happen.

 

[LBSCR Times]

There are too many 'important people' using West Dulwich now for that to happen.

Yes, those who shout the loudest.....
Then the timetable gets altered and another train gets affected!

 

[Busaholic]

Yes, those who shout the loudest.....
Then the timetable gets altered and another train gets affected!

To be fair, the half hourly service that was proffered, even at peak times, until fairly recent times at West Dulwich didn't give a lot of scope for stopskipping. Also, those 32 stairs (or whatever it is) to access the London-bound platform tax not only the 'very important' but ordinary people like my sister who, carrying a portable oxygen cylinder, is unable to use her local train service.

 

[bb21]

Almost as if his or her constituents (or the MP themselves, presuming they sometimes use the rail service) have a right to be angry when the service they have paid for is delayed or cancelled (particularly when it's the Railway's fault.)

It is only right that when TOCs refuse to provide meaningful answers people seek out the assistance of their MPs as a possible route for resolution.

That said, complaints lodged by some MPs have to be seen to be believed - rude, ignorant and arrogant are some of the descriptors that come to mind without divulging too much detail. Thankfully there are also others who are more willing to be understanding of the constraints operators are under, and be constructive.