First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[carlberry]

Just with subsidies cut and costs rising the line of what is viable has changed which means certain services are not longer viable.

If buses stay private then I think there should be greater use of the kickstarter fund that we have seen which has had some success.

Yes I admit there is a line where it is just mad to keep funding something which isnt working but if you withdrew everything that made no money a lot of people would suffer and that is why I just don't see privatisation being a good thing.

Some profits go to shareholders of companies or if it was public then it could go back into services funding those that might not quite make it otherwise and improve the network.

When EastCoast was in public ownership it made the government money. But now it is making Stagecoach money!

The problem with East Coast is that the general public voted to continue with rail franchising last year so it's going to carry on like that. The advantage is that East Coast will compete with West Coast to keep prices down, improve services etc. etc. (see relevant PR drivel) and, it's not like the bad old days when they were run by the same company!!!

A lot of the arguments against privatisation go along the lines of 'nasty companies making profits' which would be a useful argument if they were actually making mega profits but, in reality, they don't. Even if the government decided to, overnight, nationalise the industry without compensation it would take a very short time before the level of profits was actually replaced by the costs involved in having government organising the industry. The net benefit that could actually go into improving the network would be very low (less than 5% at a guess) and, as buses dont win votes at a national level, you can guess where that 5% is going to go, even if it actually that big. The downside would be that instead of having people running the buses that have incentives to keep people coming back the industry would rapidly be run by people whose first priority is to please local and national politicians and things get really expensive very quickly in these cases, and get really bad for passengers. This isn't to say the current system is perfect (network information was often better under NBC for example), but, until somebody votes in the kind of government that's willing to spend serious money on buses, it's likely to be better than the alternative.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In 1970 I was a NBC driver for United Counties in Luton. It wasn't me that lost all that money, honest !!:roll:

To be fair, my late father may have had a hand in it. A couple of decent routes propping up a lot of highly unremunerative work! Still, paid for my upbringing and my mum still gets his pension!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The problem with East Coast is that the general public voted to continue with rail franchising last year so it's going to carry on like that. The advantage is that East Coast will compete with West Coast to keep prices down, improve services etc. etc. (see relevant PR drivel) and, it's not like the bad old days when they were run by the same company!!!

A lot of the arguments against privatisation go along the lines of 'nasty companies making profits' which would be a useful argument if they were actually making mega profits but, in reality, they don't. Even if the government decided to, overnight, nationalise the industry without compensation it would take a very short time before the level of profits was actually replaced by the costs involved in having government organising the industry. The net benefit that could actually go into improving the network would be very low (less than 5% at a guess) and, as buses dont win votes at a national level, you can guess where that 5% is going to go, even if it actually that big. The downside would be that instead of having people running the buses that have incentives to keep people coming back the industry would rapidly be run by people whose first priority is to please local and national politicians and things get really expensive very quickly in these cases, and get really bad for passengers. This isn't to say the current system is perfect (network information was often better under NBC for example), but, until somebody votes in the kind of government that's willing to spend serious money on buses, it's likely to be better than the alternative.

Put better than I could (or did).

 

[South Westerly]

Has anyone seen this one recently - MAN Wrights SF08RRO? Was silver and blue and operating with CityFox.
Anyone know where I might see it?

 

[freetoview33]

East Coast and West Coast are both Virgin Trains/Stagecoach anyway! So no competition there at the moment!

Anyway back to First in Bristol! Any news on the 54?

 

[carlberry]

Has anyone seen this one recently - MAN Wrights SF08RRO? Was silver and blue and operating with CityFox.
Anyone know where I might see it?

Somebody on the Bristol indeps thread said
'It's quite often parked up on a night, in a dark corner, at the old Bristol Greyhound 'depot'. '

 

[South Westerly]

Somebody on the Bristol indeps thread said
'It's quite often parked up on a night, in a dark corner, at the old Bristol Greyhound 'depot'. '

Thanks. Where's that?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Thanks. Where's that?

Was Swifty who mentioned it? I'd interpreted it as the former Pier Buses parking area at Lawrence Hill. Has anyone clocked the disc on it?

 

[swifty]

Was Swifty who mentioned it? I'd interpreted it as the former Pier Buses parking area at Lawrence Hill. Has anyone clocked the disc on it?

Come to think of it, I haven't seen it parked up there for a few weeks now. It used to be parked right up against the fence next to the cycle track on an evening.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks. Where's that?

Lawrence Hill, the other side of the fence from the DVSA car park.

 

[DaveHarries]

Anyway back to First in Bristol! Any news on the 54?

I heard online earlier that First are due to release full details of the changes during the course of this week.

Dave

 

[DJ737]

G'day
1st post in this thread, I have always been curious as to why First have a presence in the Haverfordwest / Pembroke area with just a few routes, is this an historical anomaly? Wouldn't Silcox be better operating the routes?

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

G'day
1st post in this thread, I have always been curious as to why First have a presence in the Haverfordwest / Pembroke area with just a few routes, is this an historical anomaly? Wouldn't Silcox be better operating the routes?

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

It is a historic anomaly and forgive me if my knowledge isn't as detailed as some but here goes....

The operations in that part of Wales were historically Western Welsh, a BET subsidiary. As well as Haverfordwest, there were also depots at Carmarthen, St Davids, Newcastle Emlyn and New Quay. However, even this was a bit distant from the main WW operations that extended from Bridgend and through Cardiff and the Valleys.

However, in 1971, the UK bus industry experienced a massive cut in subsidy and a number of firms severely pruned back their operations (such as Western National in North Cornwall but even Southdown and Midland Red). In West Wales, Carmarthen and St Davids depots were closed and so it became a bit of distant island of operation with small independents picking up a lot of the discarded work. Haverfordwest survived because of the oil industry money in Milford Haven and indeed, it had new Atlanteans there.

In 1973, the depots at New Quay and Newcastle Emlyn were transferred to Crosville because that firm had a better relationship with the local county council (but that's another story). It may have been at that point that the decision was taken that this distant pocket of WW operation would sit better with South Wales Transport and so it was transferred. It was linked with the rest of the network with ExpressWest coach services running from Bristol and along the length of the M4/A48/A40

That was the same until deregulation until the newly privatised SWT decided to expand their operations and began with a small set of tendered operations in Carmarthen. They also sold the Haverfordwest depot and bus station site for development, moving to Withybush.

A later expansion in Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire came in the mid 1990s when Davies Bros of Pencader went bust and so a full Carmarthen depot and an expanded network came about. However, the usual First malaise saw the usual contraction and the Carmarthen depot closed in c.2009 (though some vehicles still used it for parking). However, the Haverfordwest depot continues with some now ageing Darts on two main routes.

I hope this helps and apologies if I've made the odd error.

 

[Whiteway215]

Today was my first jolly around since moving. I really needed to study for 2 exams next week (audit and budgeting/costing - in case Mr Wazoo is interested/can offer any tips ), but instead went on a big trip whilst taking my books with me.

Started in Wells with the 10.30 126 where I bought a £10 day. It was 69445 and it was a lovely ride all the way to Weston - B7s are more than suited to 126 and the like and i'm very pleased (as I think are the drivers) that they stayed in Wells. 69445 flew up the A38 after Axbridge, proving just how powerful they are and how perfect they are for country work. On the way we saw 66936 and 69440, the latter being a bus that seems to be making a very regular appearance on 126. Got into Weston and saw the lovely 66726 (see the rubbish pics )

Then it was to 21. The one that was waiting which was leaving about 10 mins late was 32859, so instead of having my backside broken to pieces, I went and had lunch and waited for the next 21. Whilst waiting saw 66726 again, 66723/5/7 and 66934 (I thought all 55 B7s in Weston were in Urban) on W7 and 44910, 44914/5 on W3. Then onto 21 and what came along 5 mins late - 61594. Horrible bus for passengers - if FSW is reading this, please either send this back to Glasgow or refurb the seats - the seats are awful. I had to sit on my coat for the whole journey, which is not nice. Mechanically the bus is fine - much the same as the other 02 stuff. Went all the way to Taunton on this. Not many people on at all - single deck is fine in winter. On the way saw 32844, 40591/3, 32817, 32930, 32874, 32843, 40585, 33382 all on 21/A. In Bridgwater saw 40588 and 40590 on 1 and 40594 on 14. Webberbus have now really got a stronghold in Bridgwater - is it now time that First withdraw from Bridgwater. Obviously 21 would still have to run (as it only just makes money), but split it at Bridgwater and run Taunton-Bridgwater from Taunton and Weston-Bridgwater from Weston. Then run X75 from Wells. No point anymore with the rest, as they've let Webbers take virtually everything there now. Ashame really.

In Taunton, First still have a good stronghold. Got in early and had a look around. Saw at the depot 32935, 33379, 48225, 55102 and 48234. At the bus station there was a stack of old rotting buses parked up - 40034, 42472, 43823, 50285, a Vario, 42252 and a Trident - obviously stuff they can't sell. All vehicles apart from 43823 have had their display boards taken out. On the road coming in/out I saw 47536/7 on P&R, 45111 (6), 44922 (5), 44923 (2), 43867 (5). In bus station saw a very busy 30 - full to the brim was 62183. That should be hourly and single deck is fine. 69013 on 28, 62245 coming in on 28, 48272 on 25, 40584 coming in on 25 and 40581 going out on 22A. So then caught 54 with a late 33381. Those really are lovely buses - a lot of bumps and a few odd rattles, but I had a very nice trip to Yeovil, especially with the sunlit views along the way. On the way saw 32954 coming in on 21, 48273 and 32936 on 54.

Got into Yeovil (it's looking even worse there now - loads more shops gone out of business, ashame) about 15 mins late. Had a look around and 60914 was waiting to go out on 377 without a driver at 16.45. Asked around to see if it broken down or not - even asked the office staff if it was going out, to the response of I expect so - helpful Waited a few mins and gave up to have a look around. 42950 was waiting to go out on 58A, 53111 on 1, 53052 on 57, 53056 on 3, 53110 on 1, 42952 on 1 and 53611 was in bus station. 53057 is now in Urban and was in the bus station for a while til going out on 2. 69447 turned up on 377 and the break down truck turned up for 60914. Back on 377 on the way i saw 53614 on 1, we met 69446 just coming out of Kingsdon (stupid to have them meeting there and saw 60912 in Street on 377. Also saw 35166/7 on 376. Back in Wells 69443 and 69438 were in depot, with the solo dead at the back and 2 Streetdecks.

Overall a very nice day out, seen some lovely views and interesting things, but would have preferred a better vehicle on 21. And I still managed to do plenty of study!

If anyone fancies 42472 you have until next Monday to put in a bid as it's for sale on Ebay. I believe the Vario must be 52554 as the last surviving one with FSW.

 

[freetoview33]

Slightly off topic but I was reading a document from Bristol City Council back from 2001 and they did have some mad plans. A total of 9 park & rides around Bristol being the main point!

 

[THarris123]

53401 is back in working order today - on 375

 

[diffywood]

full changes now showing on travelwest site

http://travelwest.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Cllr-Update-Bus-Service-Changes-April-2016-V1.pdf

 

[1905 Group]

66301 on 2 and 66342 on 1 next to each other today, and a Dart on another 1.

 

[Class 33]

Just seen a Dart on a Northbound 1. It had 1 Westbury(not Westbury 1!) on the destination display.

With Wessex introducing their new service 2 from Broadmead-Southmead Hospital from 24th April, which will run the same route as First's 2 as far as Greystoke Avenue, then via Pen Park Road and Monks Park Avenue. I wonder if they will now finally re-instate the four bus stops (2 on each side) on the Southern park of Pen Park Road again? What with First's 77 running via that stretch for the past year as well. There is a bit of a long gap between bus stops between the end of Greystoke Avenue and the Southmead Hospital bus terminus.

 

[winston270twm]

Just seen a Dart on a Northbound 1. It had 1 Westbury(not Westbury 1!) on the destination display.

With Wessex introducing their new service 2 from Broadmead-Southmead Hospital from 24th April, which will run the same route as First's 2 as far as Greystoke Avenue, then via Pen Park Road and Monks Park Avenue. I wonder if they will now finally re-instate the four bus stops (2 on each side) on the Southern park of Pen Park Road again? What with First's 77 running via that stretch for the past year as well. There is a bit of a long gap between bus stops between the end of Greystoke Avenue and the Southmead Hospital bus terminus.

First are now changing their 1/2 timetable 6 days after the Wessex changes:

PH0007208/21 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Cribbs Causeway, Bus Station and Broomhill/ Stockwood given service number 1/2 effective from 30-Apr-2016. To amend Timetable.

 

[freetoview33]

Just seen a Dart on a Northbound 1. It had 1 Westbury(not Westbury 1!) on the destination display.

With Wessex introducing their new service 2 from Broadmead-Southmead Hospital from 24th April, which will run the same route as First's 2 as far as Greystoke Avenue, then via Pen Park Road and Monks Park Avenue. I wonder if they will now finally re-instate the four bus stops (2 on each side) on the Southern park of Pen Park Road again? What with First's 77 running via that stretch for the past year as well. There is a bit of a long gap between bus stops between the end of Greystoke Avenue and the Southmead Hospital bus terminus.

I think they might put 1 pair back but doubt that both pairs will be reinstated
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So the 54 is just a variation of the 53

 

[Colly405]

Both pairs still exist according to Traveline, Google Maps, the Next Stop TV screens on some Darts, and *some* drivers.

Both pairs do not exist according to the Greater Bristol Bus Map, NextBus on the First website, or *some* drivers.

But then equally, the 625 route is on Traveline as inward to the Hospital via Southmead Way, but the drivers use either that or Monks park Way inward. Seems nobody really knows what happens in the area around those darned double mini-roundabouts...

I had heard on the grapevine in the hospital that the long term plan is for services to use Southmead Way as much as possible to get to/from the hospital rather than Monks Park Way, once the new bus station is open. Basically overall it makes little difference, except the 3/4 of a mile gap between the hospital main stop and BAWA will be broken by a stop at Lidl, so it will once again be feasible to get on at Lidl to go up Southmead Rd. Why they couldn't simply have a stop at the double minis just after the junction going in each direction, I don't know...

Sorry - this is my regular haunt and it really bugs me... :mad:

 

[Whiteway215]

37764 and 62242 on 14 in Bath this afternoon

 

[Marc]

Has anyone seen this one recently - MAN Wrights SF08RRO? Was silver and blue and operating with CityFox.
Anyone know where I might see it?

Come to think of it, I haven't seen it parked up there for a few weeks now. It used to be parked right up against the fence next to the cycle track on an evening.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Lawrence Hill, the other side of the fence from the DVSA car park.

it weas dumped at the ss great britan coach park last week. the grayhound disk in it is forged.

 

[freetoview33]

Both pairs still exist according to Traveline, Google Maps, the Next Stop TV screens on some Darts, and *some* drivers.

Both pairs do not exist according to the Greater Bristol Bus Map, NextBus on the First website, or *some* drivers.

But then equally, the 625 route is on Traveline as inward to the Hospital via Southmead Way, but the drivers use either that or Monks park Way inward. Seems nobody really knows what happens in the area around those darned double mini-roundabouts...

I had heard on the grapevine in the hospital that the long term plan is for services to use Southmead Way as much as possible to get to/from the hospital rather than Monks Park Way, once the new bus station is open. Basically overall it makes little difference, except the 3/4 of a mile gap between the hospital main stop and BAWA will be broken by a stop at Lidl, so it will once again be feasible to get on at Lidl to go up Southmead Rd. Why they couldn't simply have a stop at the double minis just after the junction going in each direction, I don't know...

Sorry - this is my regular haunt and it really bugs me... :mad:

Indeed but this was the case before anyway! They only stopped using Southmead Way when the new hospital opened and demolition work started. Once the new road is finished then that was always the plan for services to go back via Southmead Way

 

[THarris123]

full changes now showing on travelwest site

http://travelwest.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Cllr-Update-Bus-Service-Changes-April-2016-V1.pdf

Why aren't the Bath service changes on that? Makes me think we could see some Wells changes too?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Why aren't the Bath service changes on that? Makes me think we could see some Wells changes too?

Be surprised if anything is due for Wells - not had any VOSA registrations through whereas all the Bristol, Bath and North Somerset have been through.

Looks like the 35A are just placement journeys (head from Bridgeyate to Cherry Gardens) and the 54 likewise just placement journeys - nothing to report

Freudian slip though.....First down as the 901 operator

Interesting to see the 48A scaled back quite a bit too.

Here's my bit of a guess....the cuts in Bristol and Bath will see the first nibblings into the W reg deckers (native and not)

 

[freetoview33]

Be surprised if anything is due for Wells - not had any VOSA registrations through whereas all the Bristol, Bath and North Somerset have been through.

Looks like the 35A are just placement journeys (head from Bridgeyate to Cherry Gardens) and the 54 likewise just placement journeys - nothing to report

Freudian slip though.....First down as the 901 operator

Interesting to see the 48A scaled back quite a bit too.

Here's my bit of a guess....the cuts in Bristol and Bath will see the first nibblings into the W reg deckers (native and not)

There is plenty of double deck rubbish that needs shot of so yes!

 

[THarris123]

Be surprised if anything is due for Wells - not had any VOSA registrations through whereas all the Bristol, Bath and North Somerset have been through.

Looks like the 35A are just placement journeys (head from Bridgeyate to Cherry Gardens) and the 54 likewise just placement journeys - nothing to report

Freudian slip though.....First down as the 901 operator

Interesting to see the 48A scaled back quite a bit too.

Here's my bit of a guess....the cuts in Bristol and Bath will see the first nibblings into the W reg deckers (native and not)

Have to see what First say. I'm still suspicious as the new timetables for 319 and a couple of others haven't come up on Traveline yet.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Be surprised if anything is due for Wells - not had any VOSA registrations through whereas all the Bristol, Bath and North Somerset have been through.

Looks like the 35A are just placement journeys (head from Bridgeyate to Cherry Gardens) and the 54 likewise just placement journeys - nothing to report

Freudian slip though.....First down as the 901 operator

Interesting to see the 48A scaled back quite a bit too.

Here's my bit of a guess....the cuts in Bristol and Bath will see the first nibblings into the W reg deckers (native and not)

To be honest I did think every ten minutes for the 48A was a little bit optimistic, and I do think every twenty minutes seems much more realistic.

I do feel the X74 needs a good sort out mind.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Have to see what First say. I'm still suspicious as the new timetables for 319 and a couple of others haven't come up on Traveline yet.

Give it til next weekend but if there's nothing in N&P then it's probably that

 

[freetoview33]

Im surprised they have cut the 48A whilst the 13 is still around but needs must I guess!