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Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

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hassaanhc

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That's fine but as I've stated mines based on an actual real trip on a unit and not a few minutes at a mock up (I actually ended up sitting on the mock up seats for a few hours too). And for the record I found them fine after sitting down for about an hour, certainly better than any other rolling stock on the BML at present.

For me I find the 387s a good mix and I feel the 700s improve on this. The routes that the 707 will service, what are the average and longest journey times like?

I semi-regularly travel the 40 minutes between Hounslow and Waterloo via Brentford (38 minutes in the return direction) which is the longest journey on the Hounslow Loop . I'm looking forward to these seats as I really like them, and I just can't get along with the Class 458 ones and prefer using a 450 or 455.

Average is a bit hard to work out. A lot of people board/alight at Putney which is about 17 minutes from Waterloo, the other well used stations are Richmond, Twickenham and Feltham (all served by the Windsor & Eton Riverside services which are semi-fast to Feltham then all stations). Less people use the Hounslow Loop than the main line via Richmond.
Longest for Windsor & Eton Riverside is normally 53-57 minutes, which some people would complete end-to-end. Weybridge via Hounslow is 75-83 minutes long (London-bound services wait at Virginia Water for 8 minutes) and Woking via Hounslow is 81 minutes long, but no one would use the service all the way as journeys from Waterloo to Addlestone/Chertsey and Weybridge-Woking are faster (and sometimes cheaper) via Surbiton. It is 57-63 minutes from Wandsworth Town to Addlestone, which is really the longest journey that people might do.
 
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Class377/5

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Thanks guys. It's not somewhere I know well (and I've never been Windsor). I don't think the seats will be much of an issue at all. Seats certainly seem fine to me for that period.
 

TEW

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For me I find the 387s a good mix and I feel the 700s improve on this. The routes that the 707 will service, what are the average and longest journey times like?
In what way do you think the 700 seats are an improvement on the 387s?
 

Skimble19

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That's fine but as I've stated mines based on an actual real trip on a unit and not a few minutes at a mock up (I actually ended up sitting on the mock up seats for a few hours too). And for the record I found them fine after sitting down for about an hour, certainly better than any other rolling stock on the BML at present.

For me I find the 387s a good mix and I feel the 700s improve on this. The routes that the 707 will service, what are the average and longest journey times like?

I agree about the 387s, personally I really like their interior set up, it's definitely the best on TL and is a good modern-day compariion to the 365 interior. I cannot see how you think the 700s improve on it though? They don't have tables, they don't have arm rests, they don't have plug sockets and they're as plain and boring as you could possibly get..?

By the sounds of it the 707s will have an interior that is a bit more passenger friendly than the 700s. One thing I can't disagree on is that the seats themselves are fine - my only complaint with them is the lack of arm rests / seat back tables, but the actual seat is more than comfortable for all but the longest of journeys.
 
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Class377/5

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In what way do you think the 700 seats are an improvement on the 387s?

The 700 standard seats (believe the same seats for the 707) are a better fit I found. I'd say they are firmer but in a good way. They seat feels like it holds me well and I don't quite get the same feeling I do on the 387 that if I jumped into the seats it would snap. The seat padding etc certainly feel like an upgrade on the 387s and seem to be more comfortable than a 377 (I haven't been on a 377 on that patch in a few years so it's hard to judge where as it's only been a few months since I did Bedford to Brighton on a leisure trip on a 387).

I agree about the 387s, personally I really like their interior set up, it's definitely the best on TL and is a good modern-day compariion to the 365 interior. I cannot see how you think the 700s improve on it though? They don't have tables, they don't have arm rests, they don't have plug sockets and they're as plain and boring as you could possibly get..?

As I'm talking about seats, Dont how tables factor in there. As for plain and boring, as a Thameslink commuter I'd rather have a train like the 700 that will work better and give me a greater chance of getting to/from work day in day out. The 700 and 707 as well, will be more reliable as they are designed to keep going.

Plugs is down to a weight issue. And looking at the real figures it's clear why lowering the weight as much as possible was the best idea.

By the sounds of it the 707s will have an interior that is a bit more passenger friendly than the 700s. One thing I can't disagree on is that the seats themselves are fine - my only complaint with them is the lack of arm rests / seat back tables, but the actual seat is more than comfortable for all but the longest of journeys.

As I've not seen a proper full 707 interior I can't really say much. If it's anything like the 700s it'll feel very different from current stock. The blue of Thameslink unit is smart actually, looking forward to comparing a red interior next year.
 

D365

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The 707's are going to be running short commuter journeys ;) (Windsor routes - The cascaded 450s will be used to strengthen outer suburban routes)
 
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jon0844

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I am not sure the weight is that big a deal, but there's obviously a maintenance cost to take into account.

I don't think these types of train really need them, and I don't expect to see them on tube trains. In the future, we may use wireless charging more. With advancements in tech that can have devices charged when held in a hand, not on a charging plate, we may wonder why we ever argued about such a thing before the trains are even half way through their active life.
 

AM9

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I am not sure the weight is that big a deal, but there's obviously a maintenance cost to take into account.

I don't think these types of train really need them, and I don't expect to see them on tube trains. In the future, we may use wireless charging more. With advancements in tech that can have devices charged when held in a hand, not on a charging plate, we may wonder why we ever argued about such a thing before the trains are even half way through their active life.

Given that mobile phones only last about 2-3 years in intensive use, I think that the TOCs/DfT are taking a sensible view and designing the trains for the other 80% of their expected life.
 

Goldfish62

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So, moving away from the wonders of WiFi charging for one moment..

I had a look over the mock-up last week. It certainly appeared to be the Thameslink one as inside the cab it professed to be a 12 car Class 700. The Siemens bod also told me that the ETCS and ATO buttons would be removed and the horn lever relocated in their place.

Moving to the passenger saloon, my impression was that the layout was not as good as the SWT inner-suburban standard as in the 455/456/458, which IMO is the gold standard for such stock. The SWT layout allows ample space between the window and the window seat and between the window seat and the aisle seat so that, unless they're massive, people are not going to spill out into the aisle. On the 707 the window seat is butted right up against the side and there is only a small spacer between it and the aisle seat. This will result in passengers overhanging into the aisle, neutralising any benefit from the slightly wider aisle. Plus, there's the usual floor-mounted heating grill which gets in the way of you're in the window seat. I am also not convinced about grab handles on the seat backs rather than poles.

I thought the Fainsa seats themselves were OK. They seemed better padded than the ones on the 387s, and also helped by having moquette rather than that awful astroturf. I still can't get used to the odd seat back profile, though.

Finally, I overheard one of the SWT people say that there would be a guard's panel at each doorway.
 

AM9

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Isn't that standard for any new stock from any manufacturer for trains destined to be on routes with guards?

Shouldn't that be the default position for any new trains with an option to have them blanked off/replaced and disabled through software/firmware if required? It certainly would allow two standards to be established and the costs in removal/reinstatement on service developments/stock transfer would be much reduced.
 

hwl

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I am also not convinced about grab handles on the seat backs rather than poles.

They work very well on crowded electrostars with those seats [377/6 &/6 and 387s] and people seem to like the lower hold position than on poles. The Bombardier grab handles are better in that they can take 3 hands rather than the 2 on Siemens with the same seats
 
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SpacePhoenix

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Shouldn't that be the default position for any new trains with an option to have them blanked off/replaced and disabled through software/firmware if required? It certainly would allow two standards to be established and the costs in removal/reinstatement on service developments/stock transfer would be much reduced.

The other thing that could do with having a set standard is the onboard equipment to allow ASDO (software would probably be different for each route)
 

TEW

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The problem is different TOCs have installed completely different ASDO systems. The 707s will come fitted with the neccesary equipment to allow for ASDO operation using the balises already installed on the SWT network for 444s/450s/458s.
 

Monty

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Finally, I overheard one of the SWT people say that there would be a guard's panel at each doorway.

This will not be the case I'm afraid, there will be one GOP panel located on every other door
 

TEW

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Broadly the same as the 455s then, not too bad a situation and better than the 458/5s.
 

SpacePhoenix

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This will not be the case I'm afraid, there will be one GOP panel located on every other door

Is that the only option that Siemens offered or is that the option that SWT decided to go for? If it's the option that SWT decided to go for, where the guards panels would be at the rest of the doors, behind the blanking panel will all the wiring/connections etc be there?
 

SpacePhoenix

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Any new news on the construction of the 707s? When are they due to start testing in the UK?
 

Class377/5

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Any new news on the construction of the 707s? When are they due to start testing in the UK?

707001/002 are at Wildenrath on test at present. Today's Railway has pictures of both with pans raised (These two have been built as DV units).
 

swt_passenger

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When SWT do their own testing of them, will that be done on the Windsor route?

Why? Anyone with a reasonable memory will know that the 458/5s (as currently used on Windsors!) were tested to Reading - because that's where the spare capacity is. Regenerative braking testing may well be done in the Weymouth area if previous tests are anything to go by.

The Windsor line will have to be route cleared for them, but individual unit testing doesn't need to be done to and from Windsor.
 

Harbornite

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That's not happening when they're 30p+!!!

Three options- go at home, hold it in or save your 30p and lose your dignity!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks for sharing this, I'll post the picture here.

swt-s-first-desiro-cities-start-test-runs_b.jpg
 

jcc

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The metro livery is starting to look a bit dated (if it was ever nice in the first place)!
 
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