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Least improved line

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IKB

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Really? The service is massively improved and it is the second fastest growing line in the country.

It has gone from an irregular service pattern, then to every hour and there are now three trains per two hours, with an hourly service on Sundays which was introduced a few years ago; there have been no regular Sunday services, aside from a short trial in the early 2000s, for decades. Trains now run for much longer in the day also; the number of services operated per week has almost doubled.

Pacers don't go anywhere near the line either; it is 150s mostly.

Stations are now much improved with artwork, regular cleaning, floral displays, CCTV and realtime information thanks to work put in by the local Community Rail Partnership, Great Western and Bristol City and South Gloucestershire councils.

If anything, it is a line that has probably changed beyond recognition since privatisation!

I stand corrected on the service pattern - as a former local it's always seemed pretty sporadic. A two hourly service to Severn Beach is pretty poor, although granted the populous there isn't massive.

The station improvements you mention although welcome, I wouldn't call them transformative.

I was looking at ridership figures t'other day - they have certainly increased quite substantially in the five to ten years. Hopefully that can be capitalised on if/when the greater Bristol Metro gets off the ground. It would be nice to see more through trains - e.g. from Bath/south Bristol etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Bromley North to Grove Park. Never seem to be timed to connect with other services, far easier and quicker to catch a bus instead.

Agree. Must be mind numbing to work that job back and forth as well.

Talk in the press about it going over to tramlink or part of Bakerloo line extension in the future.
 
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HarleyDavidson

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Reading - Redhill.

It went from being a useful service with a nice early start to absolute shi7e when the WR took it over.

From an hourly stopping service between Reading & Redhill to a two or three in the morning & evening with a couple during the peaks if you were lucky and they bothered to turn up.

Now an utterly useless service which does skip stop, has the reliability of a cold war trabant, the crews who live along it have deserted it because it has become so poor, I want to use it but can't because it's so poor.

The local services are timed so badly that they go before the fast or semi fast arrives in either direction, the up Gatwick arrives after the down fast, the down Gatwick arrives in front of the up fast, spoiling any chance for good journey times from the South Coast.

You wouldn't think it runs through the rich Surrey commuter belt, commuters between Shalford & Redhill have left it because its unreliable.

What makes me laugh is that they propose 3 tph in each direction from 2017, yet they can't run a decent on time service now!
 

Grimsby town

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As many people have already mentioned most East Midlands Train local services fit into this catergory. Most lost long distance connections with the dividing of central eg Lincoln to Cardiff, Grimsby to Birmingham and Skegness to Crew/ Manchester Airport.

The rolling stock has got worse although the refurbishments have been passable, lines have gone from seeing regular 170's and 158's to 153's and 156's. Grimsby to Newark Northgate and Stoke to Derby seem to have gotten the worst with cuts in rolling stocks and services. Hopefully the next EMT franchise will resolve this but I won't hold my breath.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Leeds to Huddersfield locals: been hourly for as long as I can remember, used to be half hourly in the peaks but that was sacrificed for the Manchester via Brighouse and for 4 then 5tph expresses. The forthcoming changes will on paper mean 2tph from most intermediate stations to both Leeds and Huddersfield but won't be much use for journeys between certain pairs of intermediate stops.
 

greaterwest

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Reading - Redhill.

It went from being a useful service with a nice early start to absolute shi7e when the WR took it over.

From an hourly stopping service between Reading & Redhill to a two or three in the morning & evening with a couple during the peaks if you were lucky and they bothered to turn up.

Now an utterly useless service which does skip stop, has the reliability of a cold war trabant, the crews who live along it have deserted it because it has become so poor, I want to use it but can't because it's so poor.

The local services are timed so badly that they go before the fast or semi fast arrives in either direction, the up Gatwick arrives after the down fast, the down Gatwick arrives in front of the up fast, spoiling any chance for good journey times from the South Coast.

You wouldn't think it runs through the rich Surrey commuter belt, commuters between Shalford & Redhill have left it because its unreliable.

What makes me laugh is that they propose 3 tph in each direction from 2017, yet they can't run a decent on time service now!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Now with the removal of the Southampton and Portsmouth services from Redhill, there's really no point boarding a Redhill stopping service and changing, because you'll only beat the Gatwick fast from Reading by about 5 minutes on arrival at Gatwick (not to mention that the connection at Redhill from the unreliable GW train arriving and the SN stopper to Horsham departing is three minutes - useless if you have luggage or anything that requires you use the lift)

3tph is laughable when they can't even manage two, the total lack of signalling headway West of Guildford would mean any minor issues would very quickly disrupt the whole service (only 4 signals between Aldershot South Jn and Wokingham!)

Then there's the whole fiasco with the GWML electrification, Reading DMU depot won't be around for much longer and the North Downs isn't expecting third rail until at least control period 6, (that's 2019, for those not in the know) as per the Wessex Route Study, and that doesn't even guarantee it!
 
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Carlisle

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Doncaster - Leeds

Stock: same (322's = more of the same really, don't they?)
Service: same
Stations: Wakefield Westgate's changed a bit, Display screens, that's it.

The same could be said about the Newcastle -Carlisle line stock and services
 
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pemma

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To be pedantic - Middlewich branch. Passenger services were axed during the Beeching Cuts and there remains no service but the line is still open and is used for freight and Virgin Voyager diversions.
 

Mordac

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What the point of having more trains as all there is there is a connection with the Isle of man ferry service which it quite successfully does 6 days a week as there is no ferry service on a Sunday.
As the station is within the Peel Ports complex and nothing else there whats the point of more trains going?If you miss the train its send for a taxi or walk to Heysham village for a bus thats if Peel Ports will let you walk through the port complex?

Sure, but the question didn't specify if improvements would have been warranted or not. :D

Plus, I think the track is in really bad state.
 

Deepgreen

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

Now with the removal of the Southampton and Portsmouth services from Redhill, there's really no point boarding a Redhill stopping service and changing, because you'll only beat the Gatwick fast from Reading by about 5 minutes on arrival at Gatwick (not to mention that the connection at Redhill from the unreliable GW train arriving and the SN stopper to Horsham departing is three minutes - useless if you have luggage or anything that requires you use the lift)

3tph is laughable when they can't even manage two, the total lack of signalling headway West of Guildford would mean any minor issues would very quickly disrupt the whole service (only 4 signals between Aldershot South Jn and Wokingham!)

Then there's the whole fiasco with the GWML electrification, Reading DMU depot won't be around for much longer and the North Downs isn't expecting third rail until at least control period 6, (that's 2019, for those not in the know) as per the Wessex Route Study, and that doesn't even guarantee it!

Yep - as a user (Betchworth) I would support this view! The service's 'skip-stop' pattern is bizarre (so to get from, say, Betchworth to Chilworth in the off-peak can take well over an hour and a change of train en route for the twelve mile journey!), and its overall lack of reliability is depressing and annoying to those of use who use it. Connections (two-hourly off peak stopping trains) are not held at Redhill, and station facilities are woeful (for example, one platform screen at Betchworth has probably worked for only 60% of the time in the last four years). The signalling allows only a thin service provision and the lack of train lengthening has been poor. The costs of extending platforms at the intermediate stations would not be huge but we continue with three car units (sometimes two cars). Part of the problem is that the Surrey folk here prefer to drive to a major station (or all the way) so the backing is not there for improvements.
 

Train man

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Glasgow to Edinburgh via Shotts on a sunday:

First train leaves Glasgow C at 1016 and Edinburgh at 1026
Last train leaves Glasgow C at 2017 and Edinburgh at 2026
Any improvements needed Taken from the ScotRail timetable
 

urbophile

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Originally Posted by IKB View Post
Bristol Temple Meads - Severn Beach branch line.

[snip]

Bristol - Avonmouth service approximately every 30-40 minutes, extended to Severn Beach every two hours. A few skeleton trains on Sundays.

Stations are very basic (bus shelter types). Traction has been 143 Pacer or 150/2 for over twenty years.
Lets be honest, that is true for countless rural branch lines, and is arguably better than many. Pacers or 15x's calling on a timetable that is an hourly (if not worse) frequency with most stations being what the old railway would have called halts but somehow now constitute a station.
I don't know Bristol well but the service on this line was lamentable when I used it a few years ago. I was meeting a friend in Clifton and hoped to leave my luggage at Temple Meads: amazed to discover that the only main-line station in a major city and tourist destination had no left luggage facilities (I know that is not the responsibility of the TOC but it added to my frustration.) As far as I remember there was only one train an hour, and the one I hoped to catch was cancelled. This is not a remote rural branch line but could be the basis of an efficient and frequent metro service. Having again missed a train, the return bus journey took an age and like the whole city was snarled up in traffic. Where is the joined-up thinking?
 

Statto

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Bidston-Wrexham painfully slow & hourly frequency until 6pm then 3 journeys Southbound & 2 journeys Northbound, 6 journeys both ways on Sundays, talk about electrification for years but nothing has come of it.
 

D6975

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The Severn Beach service is currently the best it's been for quite a while. We used to have an hourly(ish) service to Avonmouth with buses to the Beach, through trains only at peak times, no late service and no trains at all on a Sunday.

Even now it has its quirks, some services don't stop at Lawrence Hill. This is inexcusable. It means festering at Stapleton Road for typically 15 minutes to connect in/out of Beach services. Those who know the area will know that this is not a place that you want to be hanging around, even during daylight hours. I stopped going there to take photos several years ago when the local drug dealers came up to me asking what I was doing hanging around the station.
 
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PHILIPE

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I don't know Bristol well but the service on this line was lamentable when I used it a few years ago. I was meeting a friend in Clifton and hoped to leave my luggage at Temple Meads: amazed to discover that the only main-line station in a major city and tourist destination had no left luggage facilities (I know that is not the responsibility of the TOC but it added to my frustration.) As far as I remember there was only one train an hour, and the one I hoped to catch was cancelled. This is not a remote rural branch line but could be the basis of an efficient and frequent metro service. Having again missed a train, the return bus journey took an age and like the whole city was snarled up in traffic. Where is the joined-up thinking?

3 trains every 2 hours on the Severn Beach now and strengthening for morning peaks. I believe there are many large stations with no left luggage facilities now. Perhaps they are being confined to history.
 

Clip

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Even though they have put in a few new screens along the line you wouldve thought theyd do more with the Bishop - Saltburn line, especially with that rather large attraction thats been built.
 

Deepgreen

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Indeed, as I said earlier anyway, the Wessex Route Plan doesn't necessarily mean it will happen (or to schedule) and for the foreseeable future it will be diesel operated.

I do have to say though, 750vDC is the majority in London and the South East, and I have read posts on here about the battery operated trains, how viable will that be though, with short turnarounds at Gatwick, Redhill and Reading. Not to mention that the NDL is one of the few lines in the South East to not be 750vDC.

There's also the possibility of a re-assignment of route to another TOC to consider, which has been discussed to some extent on this forum too, Southern being the only TOC in the area with suitable diesel trains in their current fleet. (170s and variants)

I'll push for a Guildford to London Victoria Southern service, all stations to Redhill then non-stop to Victoria. That's my commute sorted out!
 

DarloRich

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Even though they have put in a few new screens along the line you wouldve thought theyd do more with the Bishop - Saltburn line, especially with that rather large attraction thats been built.

Yes Darlington FC moving to Bishop Auckland has created a massive upsurge in traffic. Northern have failed magnificently to respond to the unprecedented demand! The service after the match are scandalous. ;)
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
My local line the City Union Railway between Springburn and Bellgrove has a 30 minute frequency on Mondays - Saturdays, which has remained unchanged for a good number of years.

The Sunday service operated in December only before the Glasgow and Garnkirk Railway was electrified in 2014. As the "What's it called?" Cumbernauld services were diverted to Glasgow Queen Street low level, this meant that there was an all year round Sunday service between Springburn and Bellgrove. This then led to an accident by design in providing an all year round Sunday service at Barnhill, Alexandra Parade, and Duke Street from either the December 2014 or May 2015 timetable change, albeit only during shopping hours.

Another route in West Central Scotland is the section between Paisley Gilmour Street and Wemyss Bay/Gourock on Sundays. The frequency is every 30 minutes between Glasgow Central and Port Glasgow, with one train every 60 minutes to each of Gourock and Wemyss Bay. Although the Mondays - Saturdays frequency has been improved so as to provide a train broadly every 12 minutes between GLC and Port Glasgow, the Wemyss Bay frequency and the Sunday service still remains the same.
 

Clip

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Yes Darlington FC moving to Bishop Auckland has created a massive upsurge in traffic. Northern have failed magnificently to respond to the unprecedented demand! The service after the match are scandalous. ;)

I see what you did there :lol:
I dont even mind the pacers that run the service but the track really needs to be sorted out, spilled me can many a time ;)
 

Gareth Marston

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You don't think that the Cambrian has seen improvements over the past fifteen years?

It must have one of the highest "infrastructure costs per passenger" in terms of the investment in redoubling?


Cambrian mainline Yes Coast No - big difference.
 

Bevan Price

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To be pedantic - Middlewich branch. Passenger services were axed during the Beeching Cuts and there remains no service but the line is still open and is used for freight and Virgin Voyager diversions.


Middlewich closed in 1960, before the Marples-Beeching mass closures. Line speed limit is now as low as 20 mph, and Crewe - Chester diversions take at least one hour.

Not seen anyone mention (Preston) - Kirkham - Blackpool South. Line singled, despite St. Annes & Lytham once being busy intermediate stations. Used to have hourly passenger services to Manchester, some semi-fast, and also had a few through trains to/from London. Now just has a painfully slow all stations service to Preston & Colne, often operated by Pacers.

(Not to mention the stupid closure of Blackpool Central, so that terminus is over one mile from the town centre, and which can be blamed on short-sighted town councillors in the 1960s )
 

simonw

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What are you suggesting? There is now more employment in that area than there has been at any time in the past 20 years! Indeed, there is now so enough demand to justify a bus service that goes to Avonmouth (stopping by the station) and then runs all around the industrial area serving businesses. http://severnnet.org/workareas/transport/bus-services/severnnet-flyer/

The service alterations, which only affects off peak services on weekdays were designed to allow customers to travel via Severn Beach, and were introduced because of timetabling constraints, rather than any reason such lack of demand.

But that bus service doesn't call at St Andrews Road station, it calls at Avonmouth Station.
 

Busaholic

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Bromley North to Grove Park. Never seem to be timed to connect with other services, far easier and quicker to catch a bus instead.

Connections were timed better when it was half-hourly. Now it's every 20 minutes the pattern got disturbed. It means the driver's productivity improves by 50% though!
 

kieron

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Has Borderlands had anything in the way of infrastructure or timetabling improvements?
A couple of miles of track between Heswall and Upton had its speed limit increased from 50mph to 55mph a while back. There have also been improvements to the station facilities. There are fewer services than in 1982 according to 2d53, but I don't know what the pattern was in 1997. I don't know what stock was used then, either.
A standard 15min service with all the stations fully staffed all day, with platform information boards and most with improved waiting,cycling,toilet and lighting facilities, I'm not sure they need any more improvement to be honest.
I don't know, Trains which take half an hour to travel the ten miles from West Kirby to Liverpool don't seem to me to be the best that anyone could hope for.
 

urbophile

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The Wirral electric lines from Liverpool to New Brighton and West Kirby operate at a basic 15 minute interval all day. This is the same as when the lines were electrified in 1938. There was a period when it was 20 minutes off-peak and 10 minutes peak on both routes, but then it reverted to the same interval service, over the same hours in the day, as 75 years ago. Most of the Wirral side stations look exactly the same now as then.

Trains are no longer as comfortable as those ones built in 1938, of course.

As someone else said above, maybe there is not much need of improvement. The 1938 LMS stock was way in advance of its time and it's a pity its replacements were inferior. But even so, they, and the service in general, are much superior to the majority of lines mentioned on this thread and indeed to most suburban lines anywhere in the country (even including London: they might have newer and more frequent trains but they are often overcrowded in a way the Wirral line rarely is).

Most of the stations on the West Kirby line (except for Bidston in the middle of the wilderness) were inspired by the Holden-era London Underground classics. Smaller and more basic, certainly, but the same simple and elegant modernism.

However, where Merseyrail falls down (except on the Southport - Hunts Cross section) is with the post 19.00 train service which drops to half-hourly. There is surely room for improvement there.
 

ryan125hst

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That's the first thing that came to mind (an hourly Pacer or single 153 taking 1h20 to cover under fifty miles of flat countryside, no service before half one on Sunday lunchtime, stuck in a timewarp).

The best defence I can give is the extension to Meadowhall (which I think was in the fifteen year period quantified by the OP?) - obviously with through running to/from Huddersfield/ Adwick/ Scunthorpe at various times.

It will also see through running to Leeds, under the new Northern franchise (plus off-peak extras from Sheffield to Worksop/ Retford), plus through services to Leeds, though "future improvements" maybe aren't what this thread is about.

It's not great though.

It gets you from A to B but it certainly isn't great. The Pacers aren't too bad between Retford and Sheffield if it's not too busy. It's when it's busy that they aren't great- 16:44 is normally a full and standing two car Pacer which isn't great, and I used to go home from uni for the weekend with a suitcase and found that there is just no luggage space on them.

I'm looking forward to these improvements. It desperately needs them, that's for certain!

Welly said:
I disagree. 20 odd years ago there were gaps of 2 hours in service on the Lincoln Sheffield service during the day between 9am and 11am and also between 2pm and 4pm. Privatisation abolished the gaps and brought in an hourly service albeit with Class 141 Pacers!!

I've remember hearing somewhere that it was a two hourly service at some point. It doesn't look too bad on the face of it- it's only two services less- but if the gap between 2 and 4pm is leaving Sheffield, that meant there's a big gap returning to Sheffield in the evening for those who work in Lincoln and live in Retford or Worksop. I also guess that's why a Class 153 is often found on the 11:27 from Retford as it's always been a period of lower demand.

Fortunately, I am too young to remember these times or the Class 141's!
 

crispy1978

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I guess it depends how you define "improvement" - or lack thereof, are we talking infrastructure, services, stock, stations and/or facilities, etc.

The Middlesbrough to Whitby line isn't great - although improvements have taken place with the NYMR and Whitby now has two platforms - so improvements have been made there.

The track from Ormskirk to Preston was horrendous when I travelled on it in October - very bumpy and in need of a bit of a levelling.

I agree with the Morecambe to Heysham line not being great, but as mentioned it only sees one train each way per day (6 days per week).

Those are the three which there have been comments on which I have noticed one way or the other.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Another planet...
Fortunately, I am too young to remember these times or the Class 141's!

I think the reference to 141s must've been a typo, as they were withdrawn by BR prior to privatisation. Additionally I didn't think they'd ever worked into Lincolnshire on a regular basis. They were horrible things but they had character!
 
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