Notice of Intention to Prosecute with no warning

[Regan_]

Hi all,

Last month I was travelling from Moorgate to Hatfield via Finsbury Park (I switched at finsbury for the fast train).

When I got on the fast train I was sitting in 1st class although my annual gold card is standard class only.

Two ticket inspectors came on and rounded up myself and 5 others who were sat there without the correct ticket.

I was the first to have my details taken but I wasn't able to pay then and there as I had no money/card on me so the guy informed me I would receive a letter with an option to pay or dispute the penalty fare.

2 weeks later and I've recieved a letter of Notice of Intention to Prosecute which will leave me with a criminal record meaning I will lose my job and lose my hobby as becoming a rugby coach as I wouldn't be able to work with kids. If I had known this then I would of asked someone to come to the station to pay for me!!

I was only 1 of 2 from the carriage to actually have details taken as the others were able to leave the train at Hatfield as the inspectors were dealing with me and the other. Is this right?

I would ideally like to settle this without going to court but I am not sure how best to do so,can any of you help me out please?

 

[headshot119]

Hi all,

Last month I was travelling from Moorgate to Hatfield via Finsbury Park (I switched at finsbury for the fast train).

When I got on the fast train I was sitting in 1st class although my annual gold card is standard class only.

Two ticket inspectors came on and rounded up myself and 5 others who were sat there without the correct ticket.

I was the first to have my details taken but I wasn't able to pay then and there as I had no money/card on me so the guy informed me I would receive a letter with an option to pay or dispute the penalty fare.

2 weeks later and I've recieved a letter of Notice of Intention to Prosecute which will leave me with a criminal record meaning I will lose my job and lose my hobby as becoming a rugby coach as I wouldn't be able to work with kids. If I had known this then I would of asked someone to come to the station to pay for me!!

I was only 1 of 2 from the carriage to actually have details taken as the others were able to leave the train at Hatfield as the inspectors were dealing with me and the other. Is this right?

I would ideally like to settle this without going to court but I am not sure how best to do so,can any of you help me out please?

Okay, first of all try not to panic. Things are probably not as bad as they seem.

Does the Notice of Intention to Prosecute state what they intend to prosecute you for? This will usually be a railway bylaw offence, or the Regulation of Railways Act.

A railway bylaw offence will not lead to a criminal record, as it is a none recordable offence.

A Regulation of Railways Act offence will lead to a criminal record, but this is usually spent after a year. Even getting a record for this is unlikely to cause you to loose your job, in the grand scheme of things it is a minor offence.

I assume the company have asked for your version of events, this is an opportunity to write a sincere letter, saying you will not do it again, and offer to pay a sum to cover the unpaid fare, and a contribution towards there costs.

The fact that they only managed to take your details, and one other persons is immaterial to your case, I would suggest you ignore it and not try to find faults with the company, though I do understand that this may seem unfair to you.

 

[furlong]

Did you consider trying to purchase a first class excess before starting your journey at Moorgate? (Does Moorgate still have a ticket office and, if not, do the machines now offer national rail excess fares?)

 

[najaB]

I was only 1 of 2 from the carriage to actually have details taken as the others were able to leave the train at Hatfield as the inspectors were dealing with me and the other. Is this right?

Doesn't make a difference, your details were taken which is all that matters.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I agree that this appears to be a simple "Railway Byelaw" 19 offence, which is not a recordable conviction.

Having said that, most train companies are willing to dispose of violations by way of an administrative settlement, some being more willing than others.

Only if there was more to the incident which we don't know about and which provided compelling evidence of an attempt to travel without paying the correct fare, would the Company consider the more serious, recordable, offences.

 

[Regan_]

Thanks for your replies and after looking at the byelaws it is number 19 thank you very much. Can anyone advise how best to word the letter I'm sending so I can pay before anything worse will happen?

 

[crehld]

Thanks for your replies and after looking at the byelaws it is number 19 thank you very much. Can anyone advise how best to word the letter I'm sending so I can pay before anything worse will happen?

Keep the letter short and concise. I'd advise structuring it around three things:

1. A statement of the facts (date, time, what service you were on, the fact you were caught sitting in first with a standard ticket).

2. A recognition that not holding a first class ticket was wrong, and a sincere apology with a commitment that you've learned from your mistake.

3. An offer to resolve the matter swiftly by paying the outstanding first class fare for your journey that day, plus any additional costs the company might have incurred investigating your case.

Avoid anything the company will deem irrelevant (e.g. The impact of a criminal conviction, the fact only two of five had details taken)


If you look on previous threads you'll see examples others have used. We're happy to proof read anything if you're comfortable.

 

[anme]

Did you consider trying to purchase a first class excess before starting your journey at Moorgate? (Does Moorgate still have a ticket office and, if not, do the machines now offer national rail excess fares?)

How does this post help the OP?

 

[Puffing Devil]

How does this post help the OP?

Agree - no help at all.

I certainly do not support the OP in their actions and I am happy that they are being dealt with by the TOC.

I do believe that anyone posting in this section of the forum is entitled to constructive advice pertinent to their situation. "Buy a ticket" doesn't cover it.

The other advice posted here is good, useful, and helpful to the OP.

 

[furlong]

How does this post help the OP?

There might not have been an opportunity to pay on the journey itself leading to some grey areas (depending what was said to the inspector which we don't know).

 

[30907]

How does this post help the OP?

IF the OP had attempted to buy an excess to First at Moorgate and IF it had proved impossible to do so, it would have altered the scenario, as arguably they were entitled to excess on board. However, it's a big IF, and the OP hasn't suggested this.

 

[swt_passenger]

IF the OP had attempted to buy an excess to First at Moorgate and IF it had proved impossible to do so, it would have altered the scenario, as arguably they were entitled to excess on board. However, it's a big IF, and the OP hasn't suggested this.

AIUI you still cannot occupy a first class seat (or remain in the first class part of the train) in anticipation of being able to excess later.

If the train is DOO it is impossible to do such an excess anyway.

 

[furlong]

AIUI you still cannot occupy a first class seat (or remain in the first class part of the train) in anticipation of being able to excess later.

There are limited circumstances where you may do exactly that - but anyone thinking of doing so should check very carefully first, as there are other circumstances where you clearly may not and there are grey areas in between. From what's reported here, the OP's situation is unlikely to fall into one of those grey areas - if neither an excess nor a permit to travel was available before travelling with a standard class season ticket, I'd argue their options were either to travel in standard class or to purchase a first class fare for the start of their journey to be taken as part-payment towards the excess later under condition 3 (but alternative interpretations seem possible).

 

[Darandio]

But there is absolutely no indication from the OP that they intended to pay for sitting in first class, their details were taken and it seems not to have been mentioned when this was done.

Suggesting otherwise seems to me like some are trying to concoct a false story for the OP to try and use.

 

[Bletchleyite]

2 weeks later and I've recieved a letter of Notice of Intention to Prosecute which will leave me with a criminal record meaning I will lose my job and lose my hobby as becoming a rugby coach as I wouldn't be able to work with kids.

Even if it is a RoRA prosecution this is unlikely. The Scout Association do not absolutely bar all criminal records - it is just ones that they feel would be an issue, e.g. violence, sexual offences, child related offences, fraud (for trustees) etc. I can't see rugby coaching being any different.

 

[30907]

But there is absolutely no indication from the OP that they intended to pay for sitting in first class, their details were taken and it seems not to have been mentioned when this was done.

Suggesting otherwise seems to me like some are trying to concoct a false story for the OP to try and use.

I made your first point myself in a post you appear to be referring to, and I can assure you that I was not attempting to concoct a false story.

However, like Furlong I missed the fact that the OP didn't have any means of payment on them.

 

[furlong]

But there is absolutely no indication from the OP that they intended to pay for sitting in first class

Neither did the OP say they did not try to pay, which is why I posed my original question. (But you may wish to draw further inferences from the fact it has not been answered.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry - I take this all back - I had missed:

I wasn't able to pay then and there as I had no money/card on me

so this might be prosecuted as a more serious offence than the byelaw one suggested so far.

 

[najaB]

Sorry - I take this all back - I had missed:

I wasn't able to pay then and there as I had no money/card on me

so this might be prosecuted as a more serious offence than the byelaw one suggested so far.

Indeed. It means there never could have been any intention to pay the difference between standard and first class.

 

[furlong]

Indeed. It means there never could have been any intention to pay the difference between standard and first class.

which might be taken alongside NRCoC 39(d)

...if you travel in first class accommodation (or the equivalent) with a standard class Season Ticket, you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid ticket..

to support RORA:

5 Penalty for avoiding payment of fare.
...
(3) If any person—
(a) Travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare, and with intent to avoid payment thereof...

 

[anme]

Neither did the OP say they did not try to pay, which is why I posed my original question. (But you may wish to draw further inferences from the fact it has not been answered.)

Are we here to help the OP or to determine their guilt/innocence?

 

[najaB]

Are we here to help the OP or to determine their guilt/innocence?

Sometimes it is useful to take the view of a prosecutor in order to figure out the best course of action. If we the questions that the TOC will ask, it gives the OP a chance to figure out what the best answer is.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Greenback]

I think we should keep this simple rather than getting sidetracked into all sorts of 'what if' speculation, as seems to happen here all too frequently.

Regan, you sat in an area of the train that you were not entitled to be in. It's likely that you will prosecuted under the Railway Byelaws, which doesn't lead to a criminal record. Even if you did get a criminal record, this would not necessarily cause you to lose your job or to stop coaching rugby.

You can try and settle with the company by writing a letter in which you apologise profusely for being in a first class area without the appropriate ticket, stress that you won't do it again, and offer to pay a contribution to cover the lost revenue and additional costs they have incurred in dealing with you.

Then, make sure that you don't do the same thing again, and always have the correct ticket or an excess for the accommodation that you're using.