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First Group: General Discussion

ivanhoe

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Turnover down in both accounts. They've cut costs like but it's the turnover that is worrying for me.
 
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overthewater

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It seems Southampton is up. It should be noted both Glasgow and Midland bluebird accounts are over due...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here is First Essex: Note the others are on the page before including Manchester, Bos and stoke.

G05TrfU.jpg



just notice the Buses of somerset is wrong, so here it is again:

KWlS0bs.jpg
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It seems Southampton is up. It should be noted both Glasgow and Midland bluebird accounts are over due...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here is First Essex: Note the others are on the page before including Manchester, Bos and stoke.

G05TrfU.jpg



just notice the Buses of somerset is wrong, so here it is again:

KWlS0bs.jpg

Surely BoS is First South West? Isn't this the former Badgerline Somerset operation
 

Andyh82

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First South West Limited is Buses of Somerset and Kernow

First Somerset & Avon is ex-Badgerline, but not those in Bristol itself which is First Bristol Limited
 

overthewater

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What about Leicester and South yorkshire, what are both called? and cheers.
 
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overthewater

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Thank you for those both: First South Yorkshire Limited accounts are overdue...

Leicester: Nice profit here:
a4SV15C.jpg
 

Andyh82

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Didn't realise Trent Barton held 6% holding in Leicester City Bus

I do recall something along those lines.

Does that explain why Leicester was never renamed First Leicester...

Although it's once twin Northampton Transport I don't think ever was renamed either.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Didn't realise Trent Barton held 6% holding in Leicester City Bus

Yes - it's a long story dating from c.1987-9. In short (and I'll be happy to be corrected....

Trent traditionally had a depot in Loughborough.

Leicester Citybus were under attack from Midland Fox (and GK Kinch to an extent). They were looking to expand and set up Loughborough Bus & Coach with some Optare City Pacers. Trent sold the depot off for redevelopment but the operation was sold to LCB in exchange for cash adjustment plus a shareholding in LCB. It dates from that deal AFAIK.

By 1989, an ailing LCB were looking to rationalise so sold Loughborough to Midland Fox (who were also looking to improve their competitive position against various independents). However, the shareholding was retained by Wellglade who later bought Kinch ironically and so returned to Loughborough
 

ivanhoe

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Yes - it's a long story dating from c.1987-9. In short (and I'll be happy to be corrected....

Trent traditionally had a depot in Loughborough.

Leicester Citybus were under attack from Midland Fox (and GK Kinch to an extent). They were looking to expand and set up Loughborough Bus & Coach with some Optare City Pacers. Trent sold the depot off for redevelopment but the operation was sold to LCB in exchange for cash adjustment plus a shareholding in LCB. It dates from that deal AFAIK.

By 1989, an ailing LCB were looking to rationalise so sold Loughborough to Midland Fox (who were also looking to improve their competitive position against various independents). However, the shareholding was retained by Wellglade who later bought Kinch ironically and so returned to Loughborough

Thanks for this. I remember sometime in the late 80's, three buses going past my house. Trent, Kinch and Triffids. Trent went, Triffids which were a unique set of green and yellow small buses , were forced out by Kinch and Midland Fox became part of the Arriva empire.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Thanks for this. I remember sometime in the late 80's, three buses going past my house. Trent, Kinch and Triffids. Trent went, Triffids which were a unique set of green and yellow small buses , were forced out by Kinch and Midland Fox became part of the Arriva empire.

The Trippits were Loughborough Bus and Coach (aka Leicester Citybus)!
 

vicbury

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Surely BoS is First South West? Isn't this the former Badgerline Somerset operation

So West of England (non-Bristol) increased turnover yet increased losses. What is going wrong? It's not like mileage has increased significantly nor has there been significant investment in fleet (purchases or refurb/maintenance).

Is this a sympton of a shortage of drivers and reliance on agency staff, who are typically more costly?
 

ag51ruk

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The Trippits were Loughborough Bus and Coach (aka Leicester Citybus)!

And the Optare CityPacers they ran were bought by Derby City Transport to compete with Mercian Midland Red, all now part.of Arriva Midlands along with what was Midland Fox. What goes around...

To be pedantic, Wellglade own the share of Leicester City Bus rather than Trent Barton, which is just another Wellglade subsidiary
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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And the Optare CityPacers they ran were bought by Derby City Transport to compete with Mercian Midland Red, all now part.of Arriva Midlands along with what was Midland Fox. What goes around...

To be pedantic, Wellglade own the share of Leicester City Bus rather than Trent Barton, which is just another Wellglade subsidiary

Pedantic? Nah - you're absolutely correct
 

F Great Eastern

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First Northern Ireland accounts published too, losses down by around 50%

However you can't really read anything into them since the company is simply a vehicle used to pay staff based in Belfast and to service vehicles overnight there and base some vehicles there..

They are subcontracted by Last Passive Ltd (the overall Irish business) to provide half of the Dublin to Belfast Aircoach service so you can't take either company in isolation, need to take into account a combination of the two

Operating structure has to be that way because of the fact the Dublin to Belfast route is an international one
 

THarris123

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So West of England (non-Bristol) increased turnover yet increased losses. What is going wrong? It's not like mileage has increased significantly nor has there been significant investment in fleet (purchases or refurb/maintenance).

Is this a sympton of a shortage of drivers and reliance on agency staff, who are typically more costly?

Just remember that's before 375, 377 and 231 went. Operating costs have hiked by much higher margin that sales. Turnover will increased from 376 and Bath-Norton corridors. I expect bath city services also helped increase turnover.

Still can't make out why operating costs are so much higher. I can't think it's mostly down to fuel or wages - it has to be something else. It'll be interesting to see if Bath get any new vehicles going on those statements - wonder if even Sherrington will keep his job.
 

TAS

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I've been through and summarised the turnover and profit figures for each subsidiary, together with a summary of any explanatory notes. N.B. Accounts are not yet available for the Scottish firms, South Yorkshire and West Yorkshire.

All figures in 000s
Code:
Firm	                         	Turnover (15/16)Turnover (14/15)Profit (15/16) 	Profit (14/15)	Notes
First Aberdeen Ltd
First Beeline Buses Ltd 	 	£16,998 	£19,892 	£240 	 	£815	  	Bracknell depot sold
First Bristol Ltd 	 	 	£52,840 	£50,459 	£803 	 	£3,936	
First Cymru Buses Ltd 	 	 	£36,397 	£38,127 	£3,026 	 	£2,566
First Eastern Counties Buses Ltd 	£34,476 	£33,697 	£65 	 	£246 		Additional staff
First Essex Buses Ltd          	        £50,080 	£51,828 	£51 	 	£1,709
First Glasgow (No 1) Ltd
First Glasgow (No 2) Ltd
First Hampshire & Dorset Ltd  		£44,293 	£42,260 	£2,816 	 	£2,389	
First Manchester Ltd 	 	 	£88,214 	£89,935 	£431 	 	(£745)		Discontinuation of TfGM tenders and three-year planned reduction in concessionary income
First Midland Red Buses Ltd  		£8,811  	£10,655 	(£1,051)	£308 		Hereford depot closed
First Pioneer Bus Ltd 	 	 	£4,141		£6,578 	 	£150 	 	£227 		Transfer of services to Oldham depot, reduction of TfGM tenders
First Potteries Ltd 	 	 	£19,209 	£20,645 	(£185)	 	(£1,645)	Newcastle-under-Lyme depot closed
First Scotland East Ltd
First Somerset & Avon Ltd 	 	£35,289 	£33,699 	(£1,881)	(£1,577)	Increased staff costs
First South West Ltd 	 	 	£28,614 	£30,632 	(£3,308)	(£7,724)	Sale of South Devon & transfer of Taunton & Bridgwater depots
First South Yorkshire Ltd
First West Yorkshire Ltd
First York Ltd 	 	 	 	£14,933 	£14,495 	(£661)	 	(£931)		New contract with the University of York & reduction in park and ride licence fee
Leicester Citybus Ltd 	 	 	£15,459 	£16,177 	£2,538 	 	£2,300	 	Disruption from Haymarket bus station redevelopment
Midland Bluebird Ltd
TOTAL	                                £449,754 	£459,079 	£3,034 	 	£1,874
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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So West of England (non-Bristol) increased turnover yet increased losses. What is going wrong? It's not like mileage has increased significantly nor has there been significant investment in fleet (purchases or refurb/maintenance).

Is this a sympton of a shortage of drivers and reliance on agency staff, who are typically more costly?

As any good accountant will tell you, the information is so scant that it is impossible to really understand what may is actually happening.

For instance, there could be some one offs in there? Things that may not be fully attributable but have been loaded into that business? You could have a pensions realignment? There could be an element of poor trading mixed in as well - certainly you would have bits of the old Frome and Trowbridge area plus taking on some lower margin stuff in North Bristol/South Glos in order to weaken Wessex.

Truth is, without the detail that sits behind it, you can only guess!

ps I am not an accountant.... but I work with plenty of them ;)
 

Baxenden Bank

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Taking on board what Grand Wazoo says in the previous post about the level of detail available and what may be hiding in there.

Most companies show an improvement, be that higher profits or lower losses than the previous year. Except, on a simple turnover / costs analysis:
First Beeline down from 7.47% to 1.6% profit
First Essex down from 5.08% to 0.8% profit
First Eastern Counties 1.81% to 0.65% profit
First Midland Red 4.55% profit to 14.2% loss, ouch
First Bristol, the 'star performer' 11.35% to 2.11% profit.

Note the stretching of 'full size' bus life from 15 to 17 years, that will have a positive effect on the numbers as depreciation is reduced.

In terms of First Potteries, I note a reduction in driving staff, as a result of service cuts, (sorry, network improvements :roll:) but a disproportionate reduction in maintenance staff. I hope this is not an omen for future poor maintenance standards, and consequent service reliability, as per 2003.
 

Baxenden Bank

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It takes several days for accounts to appear online after they have been lodged with Companies House for a normal month where there have been NO bank holidays, so nothing will appear until probably well into next week. Most of the companies registered in England are now showing the accounts will be available online 5 days from today, although most are now live already. Of those lodged, the surprise is the ones doing worse in the 2015/6 financial year that are not the usual suspects.

Strangely, when I looked yesterday (Monday 9/1), the 'overdue' companies were showing as 'available soon', today the message does not show, nor have the accounts appeared. Perhaps the scanner has broken down with all the extra work!
 

DD12

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First Midland Red (Worcester) doesn't look too good.

Thanks for posting all these figures, you guys !

.... does anyone know what the total winding-up cost was for the closing of the Hereford operation ?

First Midland Red now consists of only the Worcester based operation, and SHOULD - in my opinion - be making a healthy profit (despite serious traffic congestion + roadworks etc).

- Would the cost of new vehicles be deducted from the profit figure ?

Thanks.
 

overthewater

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The remaining accounts have now been submitted, if were lucky we might get them by the end of the week.
 

Volvodart

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The remaining accounts have now been submitted, if were lucky we might get them by the end of the week.
These accounts are now live and were submitted at the same time as all the other accounts lodged. Companies House had been showing these as filed late.

First Aberdeen, First Glasgow 2 and First West Yorkshire are still shown as outstanding at Companies House.
 
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