• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Class 387 to GN

Status
Not open for further replies.

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,908
Would have thought platforming at Kings Cross would become easier as the semi-fast services no longer serve Kings Cross, instead using St Pancras Thameslink. Therefore fewer trains at Kings Cross.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
Not sure if how much of a problem platform is. For example the train leaving WGC at 0640 turns into a Kings Lynn train so that one isn't a problem. There are other examples where peak services to kings Lynn return on a slow when they drop off a portion. I think some of the existing Cambridge- kings cross fasts are returns of 387 workings. I am sure 1823 kings cross - Cambridge returns as a fast.
 

Class377/5

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,594
Presumably one of the changes at some point will to be remove the interworking of the diagrams between fast and slow, so that CA!Bridge/Kings Lynn fast services are desperate diagrams to the Cambridge semi-fast/slow and Peterborough services? Will need carefully platforming at Kings Cross but is required so that services can be converted to Thameslink

The changes from today's 4tph Cambridge service to 6tph (spilt between three different routes) as well as Peterborough route changes means a complete rewrite of all diagrams on GN as well as TL.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
12,978
I've twice had 387s on journeys between Stevenage and Kings Cross over the last few days. My observations:

- Overall a decent ambience. Both journeys were 8-car services at relatively quiet times so I couldn't comment on the capacity compared to the current trains.
- I'm no expert but the train seemed to 'bounce around', especially when going over the points at Potters Bar at speed. Can't say I've noticed this on the 365s.
- The positioning of 1st class needs changing to become consistent with the 365s and 700s. I suspect they've put it where it is because it's a slightly smaller section than if it was at the end of the train but on blalnce I think it would be better if they went for consistency. The seats in 1st class are completely unacceptable and need to be swapped out pronto - god help us if the Queen travels on a 387 to Kings Lynn (I suspect a 365 would be quickly substituted)
- The auto-announcement on today's journey on approaching both Finsbury Park and Kings Cross said'change here for 'one' services!
- The 'ironing board' seats are not acceptable for longer distance journeys to places like Peterborough, Cambridge and Kings Lynn. I found the seats too hard and the posture not great. I do have to wonder why seats in the same style as the Stansted Express 379s or Chiltern's 168s couldn't have been fitted.
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
If the first class seating was behind the both cabs, the unit would have 2 more first class seats than today. However this was important remove a baggage area and partition you would probably end up with the same capacity.

They do seem to jolt more on the fasts.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
If the first class seating was behind the both cabs, the unit would have 2 more first class seats than today. However this was important remove a baggage area and partition you would probably end up with the same capacity.

Plus make an entire vestibule available for standard class passengers to use. Currently it's unclear whether it's permissible or not for standard class passengers to stand there (I suspect the answer is technically it's not). Either way, it doesn't really matter as if the train is busy then people *will* stand there, thus potentially annoying people in first.

They do seem to jolt more on the fasts.

Very much so. For me, this combines with the hard seats and hard armrests to provide a rather unpleasant experience.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
They do seem to jolt more on the fasts.

I recall jumping around a fair bit between Hadley Wood and New Barnet London-bound. Can't recall if we were on the slow or fast up last time I felt it. Most likely the slow, so we wouldn't have been going faster than 75 - if that.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
Plus make an entire vestibule available for standard class passengers to use. Currently it's unclear whether it's permissible or not for standard class passengers to stand there (I suspect the answer is technically it's not). Either way, it doesn't really matter as if the train is busy then people *will* stand there, thus potentially annoying people in first.

Yes people absolutely do, but given there are no doors into first class from the vestibule I am sure it will be considered to be first class. Whether RPIs are that cruel is another thing (they hate the positioning of first - not only where it is on the carriage but also the fact it can be front or back* - and so some might show some leniency).

* I assume they like to know where first is as it's quite a popular thing to hit first, and often on a 317/1 they come in from each side.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Yes people absolutely do, but given there are no doors into first class from the vestibule I am sure it will be considered to be first class. Whether RPIs are that cruel is another thing (they hate the positioning of first - not only where it is on the carriage but also the fact it can be front or back* - and so some might show some leniency).

* I assume they like to know where first is as it's quite a popular thing to hit first, and often on a 317/1 they come in from each side.

Obviously your experience differs, however I can't remember the last time I saw an on-train revenue check on GN. Under FCC it was pretty frequent, and it seemed to be the same when GTR started, however nowadays it seems pretty rare.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
It is rare, but I've had very few trips on 387s and been checked twice.

But I think it makes a difference where you travel. Quite often RPIs board at WGC or Hatfield, then do checks starting out of Potters Bar into London (on trains that originated from Peterborough or Cambridge).

Even knowing that this is quite a common way for RPIs to operate, I can definitely say checks are rare. Can't remember when I last got checked out of King's Cross (but you'd have to assume they do go north in order to come back!).

I've even been checked on Thameslink (on a 700)! I bet checks on TL are even more rare.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
Hatfield is 'protected' until very late, so have a lot of RPIs been moved to gateline duties?

I have to assume that in order to staff stations, they've not hired loads of people. I know that one RPI I used to see on the gates at Hatfield is now on platform 3 a lot of the time dispatching trains.

So perhaps that's why there are less checks. We may well have only a few roving inspectors left!
 

APUK002

Member
Joined
26 Dec 2016
Messages
315
Really, some staff moved from RPI,to dispatcher, how many 387's on GN now and in service, unit no.s if possible.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,771
As I passed Hornsey yesterday I saw a 387 with "1st" on the door nearest the cab, but yellow stripes above the windows to the other end of the carriage. So well done there. That's clear.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
As I passed Hornsey yesterday I saw a 387 with "1st" on the door nearest the cab, but yellow stripes above the windows to the other end of the carriage. So well done there. That's clear.
On 387110, I photographed the door between first class which has no markings to warn people that it is in between first class, but as it was rush hour I did observe people waiting on the platform avoid the door (as well as on the rear unit, 119 I think).

It was also telling everyone about the train split and about coaches East Coast to Cross Country and Grand Central to Great Western, whereby a driver heard it and spent the time to Finsbury Park speaking to someone at Three Bridges to report the nonsense.

I tweeted the photo and a recording of the PIS to GTR and they said they'd feed back my suggestion on the former (marking the door) and that they had no sound on their computer to listen to the latter.

Another warning: if you use the accessible toilet, when you step in, you must wait for the door to shut before using the lock 'switch''. Otherwise it won't lock or give a warning.

I realise this is to stop someone pressing lock and jumping out, but I can still see people being caught out as the door can take some time to close and activate the switch. Surely a simple timer could operate so it allows the switch to activate the lock (when shut) a little bit before it thinks the door will be closed?
 

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
11,396
Another warning: if you use the accessible toilet, when you step in, you must wait for the door to shut before using the lock 'switch''. Otherwise it won't lock or give a warning.

I realise this is to stop someone pressing lock and jumping out, but I can still see people being caught out as the door can take some time to close and activate the switch. Surely a simple timer could operate so it allows the switch to activate the lock (when shut) a little bit before it thinks the door will be closed?

That's quite normal for an accessible toilet, e.g. on a Voyager one must wait for the door to close before the lock button is illuminated. The 'door locked' indicator will come on when the door locks.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
That's quite normal for an accessible toilet, e.g. on a Voyager one must wait for the door to close before the lock button is illuminated. The 'door locked' indicator will come on when the door locks.
Yes, and as I know why it does it I wasn't caught out - but the door in question took so long to close that I am sure some will press close, then lock. It won't show locked or unlocked as the button (switch) isn't active at that point.

I think as a lock button, it's clear. Such as on a pre-facelift 365. With a (pretend) lever it's not so clear. Some will think it's a physical lock.

A minor niggle, but I also think it's odd that when you press for water it doesn't let you stop it by pressing the dryer button (that's also inactive for a while). Maybe not ideal for hygiene in some study somewhere, I am able to wash my hands with a lot less water than it gives. Me rinsing and pressing dry earlier conserve water.

(These are just observations, not complaints. I didn't say anything to GTR).
 
Last edited:

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
11,396
Ah, so now I understand why the angry reactions of Hertfordshire commuters...
 

Skimble19

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2009
Messages
1,487
Location
London
With regards to the external First Class stickers, the amount of units like that seems to be reducing, although they should never have been sent out like it in the first place IMHO.

Really, some staff moved from RPI,to dispatcher, how many 387's on GN now and in service, unit no.s if possible.

The only RPIs / RCOs who have moved from Revenue to Platform have done so entirely at their own choice, with no requirement or incentive from the company to do so.. They're then trained up fully in dispatch and Platform just like a new starter, only with the added bonus of already knowing plenty of information that'll help them in their job.

As a side note, there was at least one 8 car 321 set out today, although this time it was substituting for 365s and not 387s!
 
Last edited:

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Noticed that the 0727 Cambridge-King's X just departed as an 8-car Class 387 - thus using the SDO at Foxton, Shepreth and Meldretg.
 

notverydeep

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2014
Messages
872
Not only the coaches Grand Central to East Coast oddity today on 2C32, the 1822 King's Cross - Cambridge (387117), but also a double announcement. A quieter announcement for any seems to be a different stopping pattern playing at the same time as the normal announcement. The driver has noticed, as he apologised the first time it occurred...
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
When it does the East Coast to Cross Country and Grand Central to Great Western stuff, the following 'coach n of n' bit is about twice the volume.

I assumed the trains had noise sensors and adjusted accordingly, so I wonder if the sound files are themselves at different sound levels?

It's a total mess.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
When it does the East Coast to Cross Country and Grand Central to Great Western stuff, the following 'coach n of n' bit is about twice the volume.

I assumed the trains had noise sensors and adjusted accordingly, so I wonder if the sound files are themselves at different sound levels?

It's a total mess.

The earlier Electrostars do this as well. I've always assumed it's because the "this is coach X of X" messages are broadcast individually per carriage, whereas the remainder of the announcements go though the whole train.

On a different note, looks like quite a few changes to diagrams in February. It's not just 387s dropping onto 317 diagrams, but quite a few diagram changes plus even a few minor changes to the timetable - for example some services increasing from 4 to 8 carriages, plus at least two services reducing from 8 to 4 carriages - although these are all at off-peak times affecting services which are probably only 8 carriages in the first place for stock-positioning purposes. A few 317 services will change to 365, for example 1632 KX to Cam. There will be quite a few 387s working towards London in the high morning peak, which is not going to please people who get a seat currently. On a more positive note a couple of 387 services will be going to 365, so a partial result for people who use those particular services. Still nothing north of Cambridge, I expect more big changes in the May timetable change when things will no doubt shuffle around again.

For those who wish to avoid the 387s, this is what I make to be the list of services off KX that will be 387s. This doesn't include Royston peak fasts, any non-stop Cambridges, fast Peterboroughs, or stuff terminating at Welwyn. Everything else will be 365s, unless any 317s or 321s hang on covering unavailable 365s/387s. A source tells me 2x321s are currently remaining on lease or hire covering for unavailable 365s, until further notice.

1x387
0604, 0652, 0704, 0734, 0904, 0934, 1004, 1204, 1234, 1334, 1404, 1504, 1534, 1653, 1918, 2004, 2034, 2104, 2204, 2252, 2304 (Mon to Thurs only), 2334 (Fridays only).

2x387 or 3x387
0834, 0952, 1552, 1650, 1713, 1722, 1743, 1752, 1822, 1823, 1852, 2022, 2122, 2322.
 
Last edited:

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
11,396
For those who wish to avoid the 387s, this is what I make to be the list of services off KX that will be 387s. This doesn't include Royston peak fasts, any non-stop Cambridges, fast Peterboroughs, or stuff terminating at Welwyn. Everything else will be 365s, unless any 317s or 321s hang on covering unavailable 365s/387s. A source tells me 2x321s are currently remaining on lease or hire covering for unavailable 365s, until further notice.

1x387
0604, 0652, 0704, 0734, 0904, 0934, 1004, 1204, 1234, 1334, 1404, 1504, 1534, 1653, 1918, 2004, 2034, 2104, 2204, 2252, 2304 (Mon to Thurs only), 2334 (Fridays only).

2x387 or 3x387
0834, 0952, 1552, 1650, 1713, 1722, 1743, 1752, 1822, 1823, 1852, 2022, 2122, 2322.

Thanks for the times. It's a pity I won't be travelling back down to Peterborough for another 1-2 months as I've only ever seen the Class 387s in the Nene CS.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top