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Changes to subsidised services in Lancashire

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randyrippley

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overthewater

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Lancs County Council have published a list of the intended changes. Some services have been saved in part, but a lot of evening and sunday services have gone. Interesting that when pushed, a lot of the subsidised routes suddenly became commercially viable

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/897389/bus-services-list.pdf



DRAFT timetables are at http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/897449/timetables-routes.pdf
these are subject to confirmation / further negotiation

Looks like alot of stuff after 8pm is gone, so its not commercially viable after all. Its mainly around shift changes where the buses stay on, its also where said contracts make money to help pay for the under used journeys
 

pemma

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Interesting that when pushed, a lot of the subsidised routes suddenly became commercially viable

Question is how will they fare as commercial routes? High Peak Buses attempted to run some routes in Cheshire commercially using less buses and hiking the fares and they were a complete failure. However, GHA Coaches' attempts to do the same thing in Cheshire have been more successful.

Note Catch22 Buses who were threatened with a 7 year operating ban are operating some of the commercial services, possibly an attempt to not get banned?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Looks like alot of stuff after 8pm is gone, so its not commercially viable after all. Its mainly around shift changes where the buses stay on, its also where said contracts make money to help pay for the under used journeys

I expect some 'saved' routes will see later starts, earlier finishes and gaps in timetables to allow for a bus+driver doing a school/college contract or taking a break without another driver being used to provide cover.
 

Bletchleyite

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Lancs County Council have published a list of the intended changes. Some services have been saved in part, but a lot of evening and sunday services have gone. Interesting that when pushed, a lot of the subsidised routes suddenly became commercially viable

I do find that rather suspicious myself, and always did. Funny how Arriva have decided a load of Sunday daytime services were commercially viable once MK Council said they weren't paying for them any more.

You can't really blame bus companies for this, after all they are in it for profit, but it is a serious flaw in the structure of the industry.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I do find that rather suspicious myself, and always did. Funny how Arriva have decided a load of Sunday daytime services were commercially viable once MK Council said they weren't paying for them any more.

You can't really blame bus companies for this, after all they are in it for profit, but it is a serious flaw in the structure of the industry.

Well, I'd reign in some of your suspicion. You have some journeys that are clearly not sustainable but bus companies will register them commercially in order to either ensure other commercial journeys aren't undermined (a laudable holistic vision) or they may decide that a drivers going to be paid for anyway (minimum shift length) so may as well run on a marginal cost basis. Also, especially with Sundays, what may have been non-commercial a few years may now wipe its face given the growth in Sunday shopping.

For example, when Somerset CC cut their subsidies for Sunday and evening services a few years ago, First continued on a "use it or lose it" basis. Some Sunday services around Wells and Taunton continue to this day. Others like Wells to Yeovil just didn't pay and then went. Same with some of the evening stuff though they will continue to 2000/2100hrs.

Arguably, you shouldn't marginally cost services but sometimes operators will do so as part of a holistic approach
 

Busaholic

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Well, I'd reign in some of your suspicion. You have some journeys that are clearly not sustainable but bus companies will register them commercially in order to either ensure other commercial journeys aren't undermined (a laudable holistic vision) or they may decide that a drivers going to be paid for anyway (minimum shift length) so may as well run on a marginal cost basis. Also, especially with Sundays, what may have been non-commercial a few years may now wipe its face given the growth in Sunday shopping.

For example, when Somerset CC cut their subsidies for Sunday and evening services a few years ago, First continued on a "use it or lose it" basis. Some Sunday services around Wells and Taunton continue to this day. Others like Wells to Yeovil just didn't pay and then went. Same with some of the evening stuff though they will continue to 2000/2100hrs.

Arguably, you shouldn't marginally cost services but sometimes operators will do so as part of a holistic approach

I agree very much with all that. I'd also introduce another possible reason why an operator might at least try to make some of those journeys profitable, in the short term at least. Most operators will want to be favourably viewed by the councils in their area so that when, for instance, a tender is being made for a subsidised service and two competing firms make much the same bid, kudos might be given to the company which is taking the financial risk and keeping a service going which otherwise would have disappeared.
 

randyrippley

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Are you aware that the number 10 bus actually makes that journey and the bus is certainly wider than our Range Rover.

I know that road well, but didn't realise it ran that way. I assumed it was out-and-back through Newton and Slaidburn.
 

mbonwick

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A lot of the tendered work that will be commercial is on a "use it or lose it" basis as well - the operators are trying to help LCC out, but there's only so much you can do if people don't use the services.
 

robertclark125

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Basically, the ball is now in the court of the people of Lancashire, to use these services. Ironically, the public will be very well aware of them now, given the free publicity given to them by the media reports, so perhaps folk will be tempted to try them.
 

randyrippley

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the real pain as I see it is that the Sunday and evening "touristy" services have gone: no more bus rides out to Kirkby Lonsdale or Silverdale or Glasson for a beer and walks, no more evenings in the fleshpots of Blackpool (as the evening 42 has gone}.
I'm sure those "scenic" routes just needed better advertising as "country pubs and walks" routes to keep the services going in the summer, at least.
 
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winston270twm

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Two interesting new registrations as a result of LCC cuts I assume:


PC0001777/146 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Clitheroe Interchange
Finish Point: Skipton Bus Station
Via: Gisburn
Service Number: 180
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Sunday


PC0001777/147 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
Finish Point: Clitheroe Interchange
Via: Whalley
Service Number: 280
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Sunday
 

Stan Drews

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Two interesting new registrations as a result of LCC cuts I assume:

PC0001777/146 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Clitheroe Interchange
Finish Point: Skipton Bus Station
Via: Gisburn
Service Number: 180
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Sunday

PC0001777/147 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
Finish Point: Clitheroe Interchange
Via: Whalley
Service Number: 280
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Sunday

Rotala have decided to run it commercially.
 

pemma

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Number of new registrations have appeared today:

PC0001439/167 - HOLMESWOOD COACHES LTD, SANDY WAY, HOLMESWOOD, ORMSKIRK, L40 1UB
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Burnley Bus Station
Finish Point: Burnley Bus Station
Via:
Service Number: 14
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0001439/168 - HOLMESWOOD COACHES LTD, SANDY WAY, HOLMESWOOD, ORMSKIRK, L40 1UB
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Nelson Interchange
Finish Point: Burnley Bus Station
Via:
Service Number: 65
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0001439/169 - HOLMESWOOD COACHES LTD, SANDY WAY, HOLMESWOOD, ORMSKIRK, L40 1UB
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Burnley Bus Station
Finish Point: Colne Library
Via:
Service Number: 95
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0001439/170 - HOLMESWOOD COACHES LTD, SANDY WAY, HOLMESWOOD, ORMSKIRK, L40 1UB
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Chorley Interchange
Finish Point: Lord Street, Southport (Morrisons)
Via:
Service Number: 347
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC1067065/28 - ROJAY SERVICES LTD T/A WIGAN COACHWAYS, UNIT 2C, CRICKET STREET BUSINESS CENTRE,, CRICKET, WIGAN, WN6 7TP
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Chorley Bus Station
Finish Point: Wigan Bus Station
Via: Coppull Old Parish, Standish, Roby Mill, Orrell
Service Number: 351
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 05-APR-2016
Other Details: Tuesdays & Fridays 3 journeys one direction and 2 journeys the other.
 

winston270twm

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New Preston Bus registrations listed on VOSA today:

PC0001777/148 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
Finish Point: Penwortham
Via: Broadgate
Service Number: 13
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0001777/149 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Ormskirk Bus Station
Finish Point: Ormskirk Bus Station
Via: Scott Estate
Service Number: 6
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0001777/150 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
Finish Point: Myerscough (Agricultural College)
Via: Elswick, Great Ecclestone
Service Number: 80
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0001777/151 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Chorley Interchange
Finish Point: Leyland Tesco
Via: Clayton Brook
Service Number: 114
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0001777/152 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
Finish Point: Bamber Bridge (Sainsburys)
Via: French Wood
Service Number: 112
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0001777/153 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
Finish Point: Poulton
Via: Kirkham
Service Number: 75
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0001777/154 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Ormskirk Bus Station
Finish Point: Ormskirk Bus Station
Via: Town Green
Service Number: 5
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0001777/155 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Fleetwood (Albert Square)
Finish Point: Blackpool
Via: Thornton & Poulton
Service Number: 74
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0001777/156 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Appley Bridge
Finish Point: Burnscough Bridge
Via: Skelmersdale
Service Number: 3A
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday
 

robertclark125

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According to someone on another forum, the Ormskirk locals are actually being worked from Atherton depot, which is obviously Diamond Bus North West. Crew training is seemingly taking place using staff from that depot.
 

Bletchleyite

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Interesting that they consider the Aughton circular as possibly commercial. Will be interesting to see how it does (my Dad likes that one with his free pass, and it does keep a car off the road as without it he'd drive)

Edit: ah I see it's still tendered.
 
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Deerfold

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Not impressed with Transdev's website. There's no mention that the 180/280/X80 would no longer be operated by them even though their last journeys were yesterday.
Preston Bus start tomorrow, so I hope no one tried to catch one today.
 

lejog

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Lancs County Council have published a list of the intended changes. Some services have been saved in part, but a lot of evening and sunday services have gone. Interesting that when pushed, a lot of the subsidised routes suddenly became commercially viable

.... or perhaps not so viable. The old 465 service between Todmorden and Bacup, which was replaced by extending the 482 to Todmorden as the Lancashire subsidy ended is now being reduced from an hourly service to a once per day school service from 29th Jan. Apart from this any journeys between Rossendale and Yorkshire will now involve going through either Rochdale or Burnley.

http://www.rossobus.com/article.shtml?articleid=6518

Unfortunately, we'll no longer be operating Todmorden - Bacup section of this service. Buses will continue to operate between Bacup and Bury on Mondays to Saturdays to a revised timetable.

Until April 2016 and for at least 30 years prior to that, the bus service between Bacup and Todmorden was subsidised by local authorities: Lancashire County Council (LCC) contracted operators to provide the service, and West Yorkshire Metro have also contributed to the cost. Throughout this period, Rossendale Transport has been the main service provider but as services such as this are subject to competitive tendering, other operators have run the service from time to time.

From April 2016, as part of a wider review of subsidised bus services, LCC withdrew their subsidy and terminated our contract to operate the service. In response, we took the decision to extend the 482 (Bacup to Bury) service to also operate between Todmorden and Bacup. This has run to a slightly reduced timetable than the previously subsidised service and required less resource to operate. We had hoped that this would be viable enough to operate on a commercial basis. Unfortunately, having operated the service for nine months, it is clear that the income generated on-bus through fares is insufficient to sustain the service in the longer term. As a business, we are unable to sustain the operation of loss making services and reluctantly, we have now taken the decision to withdraw the service.

We will operate one journey in each direction on schooldays only (new service 465), largely to cater for demand from schoolchildren and students travelling from Calderdale to Rossendale for education.
 

Baxenden Bank

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.... or perhaps not so viable. The old 465 service between Todmorden and Bacup, which was replaced by extending the 482 to Todmorden as the Lancashire subsidy ended is now being reduced from an hourly service to a once per day school service from 29th Jan. Apart from this any journeys between Rossendale and Yorkshire will now involve going through either Rochdale or Burnley.

http://www.rossobus.com/article.shtml?articleid=6518

A nice, comprehensive, explanation by Rosso of the situation behind the withdrawal. One has to ask why they thought it would be commercial though, if it has been subsidised every day since de-regulation and bus use generally is in decline.

I suspect there will be many similar withdrawals in due course as the rushed decision to take things on commercially faces harsh commercial reality.

On a more positive note, the fewer links between Lancashire and Yorkshire the better, keeps the tykes where they belong ;) Should it be branded Lexit or Yexit?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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A nice, comprehensive, explanation by Rosso of the situation behind the withdrawal. One has to ask why they thought it would be commercial though, if it has been subsidised every day since de-regulation and bus use generally is in decline.

I suspect there will be many similar withdrawals in due course as the rushed decision to take things on commercially faces harsh commercial reality.

On a more positive note, the fewer links between Lancashire and Yorkshire the better, keeps the tykes where they belong ;) Should it be branded Lexit or Yexit?

I think you'll find that Yorkshire people like to travel if only to spread the good word and the readings of St. Geoffrey.

We regard the Third World (e.g. Lancashire) as a interesting place and one that might seem quite nice when it's finished. ;)
 

Baxenden Bank

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I think you'll find that Yorkshire people like to travel if only to spread the good word and the readings of St. Geoffrey.

We regard the Third World (e.g. Lancashire) as a interesting place and one that might seem quite nice when it's finished. ;)

Surely you missed out a word?

...Yorkshire people like to travel FREE if only to spread....
 
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