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Grimsby <> Birmingham International

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DeeGee

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Hi folks,

Just wondering if there's any finesse possible with the following itinerary. To be fair, it's not too expensive, but the need to get an Anytime for the outward is making it less interesting than I'd like.

Just me travelling, a 41 year old without a railcard.

I'm flying out of Birmingham International on Friday 7th April, leaving at 12:15, and returning on the Monday, 10th April at 12:15. In an ideal world, I'd take a leisurely journey home and use opportunities for food and beer.

Plan is to get the 06:28 from Grimsby Town, changing at Donny and New Street to arrive at 09:55. It's a 12:15 flight to Romania, so I'm guessing that leaving over 2 hours will be enough. There are earlier options if I need them, though.

Currently, I can get anytime return for £76.10, which is not too scary, but if I can save a few quid, that'd be better. In the absence of an Airport Advance, I'm wary to pick an advance to get home unless I get a long wait between landing and departure - I've done it before at Stansted, and it was fine.

I'm happy getting an advance outward and being restricted to a named train, though. I'm quite keen for flexibility from Sheffield on the return, or a longish teatime connection there instead, so perhaps a split at Sheffield might work?

What do we reckon? Are there any clever tricks?
 
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Romilly

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You can save £5.30 by splitting anytime tickets at Derby.
 

John @ home

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Currently, I can get anytime return for £76.10, which is not too scary,
trainsplit.com suggests this flexible split:Total £70.80.
I'm wary to pick an advance to get home unless I get a long wait between landing and departure
It's a little early for Advance tickets for travel on 7 and 10 April. CrossCountry set the fare for Grimsby - Birmingham International. http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/44703.aspx indicates that their Advance tickets are currently available for travel up to 2 April.

Similarly, information on planned engineering works is available for travel until 3 April.
 
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DeeGee

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Is it possible to get a £33.70 Anytime from GMB-Nottingham instead of the £37.00 Anytime to DBY? I'm guessing that via DBY is an acceptable route to NOT?

Therefore SOR GMB-NOT= £33.70
and SOR DBY-BHI= £33.80
Total £67.50

In terms of pricing rhetoric, I'd rather be just under 70 quid than just over.
 

BigCj34

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As an example, I found travelling out on Friday March 31 at 0628, and getting a return train at 1405 on Sunday April 3, gives £68.50 splitting at Derby.

If you want to be extra risky you can get the 0734 train out and get in at 1055, costing £56.50 as the return from Derby is off-peak leaving 1h20 minutes to spare to catch your flight. Doable if you only take hand luggage and purchase fast track security, but not worth the risk to save a few pounds and travel insurance won't look at your claim if you miss your flight from train delays.
 

DeeGee

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Doable if you only take hand luggage and purchase fast track security, but not worth the risk to save a few pounds and travel insurance won't look at your claim if you miss your flight from train delays.

To be fair, although I could only be hand-luggage outward, online check-in and would pay for fast-track security (would probably get it anyway, security's a (necessary) ball-ache), I know that I'd be clock-watching for the whole journey, and I'd rather get there in plenty of time as I'm leaving home at 05:40 and I won't have had any time for a decent breakfast! The flight's so cheap, I don't mind seventy quid for the train.
 

brompton rail

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Is it possible to get a £33.70 Anytime from GMB-Nottingham instead of the £37.00 Anytime to DBY? I'm guessing that via DBY is an acceptable route to NOT?

Therefore SOR GMB-NOT= £33.70
and SOR DBY-BHI= £33.80
Total £67.50

In terms of pricing rhetoric, I'd rather be just under 70 quid than just over.

Please note that according to this recent thread Doncaster to Nottingham tickets are NOT valid via Derby anymore.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138274
 

DeeGee

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Please note that according to this recent thread Doncaster to Nottingham tickets are NOT valid via Derby anymore.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138274

That's new. Good thing I checked! Thanks for that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As an example, I found travelling out on Friday March 31 at 0628, and getting a return train at 1405 on Sunday April 3, gives £68.50 splitting at Derby.

Is this Advance, or walk-up?
 

brompton rail

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I doubt that there are any cheap advance tickets Grimsby to Birmingham on the 06.28. The Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport train is busy as far as Doncaster, and the 07.56 Doncaster to New Street is full and standing between Doncaster and Sheffield and very busy onwards though you might find a seat when passengers disembark and before Sheffield ones get on! Even in First Class it can get full, though Friday is the quietest day of the working week and seats are nearly always to be found.

Or to put it briefly- make sure you reserve!
 

DeeGee

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I doubt that there are any cheap advance tickets Grimsby to Birmingham on the 06.28. The Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport train is busy as far as Doncaster, and the 07.56 Doncaster to New Street is full and standing between Doncaster and Sheffield and very busy onwards though you might find a seat when passengers disembark and before Sheffield ones get on! Even in First Class it can get full, though Friday is the quietest day of the working week and seats are nearly always to be found.

Or to put it briefly- make sure you reserve!

I will definitely reserve. That's why I'm doing the donkey-work now, before reservations are open....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is there any mileage in going first class from DBY? What's the complimentary offering like? It comes in at an extra 30 quid or so.
 

BigCj34

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Seems good. I can't find that combination, though. Only a pair of Anytime Returns at £33.80+£37.00.

If you decide to chance the 0734 train, you would need to get the 0734 Anytime ticket from Grimsby to Derby, then you would change tickets to your Off-Peak return when the train calls at Derby at 0953, getting into Birmingham International at 1055.
 

brompton rail

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I will definitely reserve. That's why I'm doing the donkey-work now, before reservations are open....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is there any mileage in going first class from DBY? What's the complimentary offering like? It comes in at an extra 30 quid or so.

I have only used this XC train in First Class between Doncaster and Derby (cheaper to split at Sheffield if you are on Day Returns, but not sure about period returns). A breakfast product is usually offered (see XC website for current offering) along with tea or coffee. However paper cups and plates are the closest XC get to proper china.

In all honesty I travel on those journeys in First Class to be sure of a seat, and the breakfast offering is frankly not a decider! If I travel on same 07.56 on Saturday a Costa Coffee and a croissant from the stand on the platform suits me better.

First Class from Derby to Birmingham isn't likely to get you any food. Two reasons- the service starts from Newcastle and breakfast items may have run out by Derby, and the catering crew may disembark at Birmingham and maybe the 30 min journey is too short.

If your First Class experience is TPX, then XC is better, but if VTEC is your experience then expect disappointment? Mind you if Northern is your Transport of delight anything XC offer will seem like luxury
 

DeeGee

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First Class from Derby to Birmingham isn't likely to get you any food. Two reasons- the service starts from Newcastle and breakfast items may have run out by Derby, and the catering crew may disembark at Birmingham and maybe the 30 min journey is too short.

If your First Class experience is TPX, then XC is better, but if VTEC is your experience then expect disappointment? Mind you if Northern is your Transport of delight anything XC offer will seem like luxury
 

brompton rail

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I suspect I won't bother, then. Will there be a trolley in Standard, or will it not be able to make it through the train?

Yes there will be a trolley, but it isn't likely to pass through between Doncaster and Sheffield and wether you get a drink when you want one is a matter of pure luck. Depends on where you are seated and where the trolley starts from.

On your southbound journey you have a 20 minute wait at Doncaster so you could buy drinks and food there. Your Cleethorpes to Manchester train uses platform 4 (departs 07.35), and the XC Newcastle to Birmingham and Reading train arrives platform 4 about 07.49 and departs 07.56. On the platform there is a Starbucks and adjacent to the stairs at the north end is a Costa Coffee booth (actually on platform 8). Both may be a little busy, but you should be served in less than 10 minutes maximum. Alternatively continue on the Manchester train to Sheffield, due 08.01, and pick up the XC there at 08.21 - both are on platform 6 where this is a Pumkin or similar buffet.
 

AnkleBoots

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Arriving at 09:55 for a 12:15 flight is cutting it fine I think!

You'd need to be through security by 11:30 if it's a low-cost airline

You could probably stay in a hotel the night before for the difference in price between Off Peak Return and Anytime Return!
 

DeeGee

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Arriving at 09:55 for a 12:15 flight is cutting it fine I think!

You'd need to be through security by 11:30 if it's a low-cost airline

You could probably stay in a hotel the night before for the difference in price between Off Peak Return and Anytime Return!

Seriously? I've always worked to a 2 hour window for EEA flights. In fact, the Conditions of Carriage for Blue Air state that check-in opens 2 hours before the flight. Plus, with online check-in I can save 15 minutes or so there as well.

And there's no price to having an extra night at home with my family.

Although you have raised a question. I have travel insurance which covers a missed departure if public transport fails to get me there on time. My carrier says to arrive at least 2 hours before departure. I'm scheduled to arrive more than 2 hours before departure. What sort of "reasonable" time before departure would my insurer expect? Because they don't say. Although that's a discussion for another forum...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Alternatively continue on the Manchester train to Sheffield, due 08.01, and pick up the XC there at 08.21 - both are on platform 6 where this is a Pumkin or similar buffet.

I'd happily do this if I can get the seat reservations to work.
 

brompton rail

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The first Cleethorpes to Manchester service (which today started from Grimsby Town owing to worries about the tidal surge) connects at Doncaster with 06.46 Southampton XC service ( platform 3 to 8, a walk through the subway) which is less busy than the 07.56 would surely be preferable to a night at Birmingham. This service arrives New Street around 08.30 (just after, in my experience). As mentioned before a cross platform interchange is possible too at Sheffield, though the XC is pretty busy from there.
 

DeeGee

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The first Cleethorpes to Manchester service (which today started from Grimsby Town owing to worries about the tidal surge) connects at Doncaster with 06.46 Southampton XC service ( platform 3 to 8, a walk through the subway) which is less busy than the 07.56 would surely be preferable to a night at Birmingham. This service arrives New Street around 08.30 (just after, in my experience). As mentioned before a cross platform interchange is possible too at Sheffield, though the XC is pretty busy from there.

That's certainly a possibility, only slightly complicated by the fact that I can't get a bus to that one and would have to get a taxi. As an option, it'll do. Up at 4 to leave the house for 4:30 to be on the safe side. At least I can sleep on the train, I suppose.
 

AnkleBoots

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Seriously? I've always worked to a 2 hour window for EEA flights.
To be honest, for a short-haul low-cost flight, I would also risk arriving at 09:55 for 12:15.

But I just have memories of once leaving more time than that for a flight from Luton, being delayed by more than 2 hours on the train, and being told by the guard that I should have allowed more time.
 

DeeGee

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Having another think, now stuff's ope. The only Advance single I can get for the latter part of the route is 44.00, so it'll be a walk-up or combination.

Now, the straightforward ticket is £76.10, and it's about five quid more expensive than a split at Derby.

I have a long time after my flight arrives to get back to home. If I fancied having a bit of a ride around on the trains, what routes would be available to me on a Monday afternoon/evening? I'm guessing I can't go via London, obviously, but that I could make my way up to Nottingham and then across home via Lincoln. Can I do Leicester-Peterborough and up?

Are any different routes available to me than if I split at Derby?
 
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brompton rail

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Having another think, now stuff's ope. The only Advance single I can get for the latter part of the route is 44.00, so it'll be a walk-up or combination.

Now, the straightforward ticket is £76.10, and it's about five quid more expensive than a split at Derby.

I have a long time after my flight arrives to get back to home. If I fancied having a bit of a ride around on the trains, what routes would be available to me on a Monday afternoon/evening? I'm guessing I can't go via London, obviously, but that I could make my way up to Nottingham and then across home via Lincoln. Can I do Leicester-Peterborough and up?

Are any different routes available to me than if I split at Derby?

Grimsby to Derby is shown as valid via Nottingham.
Grimsby to Birmingham is shown as valid via Leicester (Nottingham & Leicester)
Grimsby to Birmingham International via Peterborough comes up as requiring more than one ticket. Most journey suggestions seem to involve changing at Newark, and many then suggest via Kings Cross / Euston. That has got to be the most expensive by far. Normally fares from Leicester to anywhere north along the East Coast Main Line are not valid via Peterborough. Doncaster to Nottingham, for example, Any Permitted is valid via Grantham, Newark Northgate, Newark Northgate and walk to Castle, as well as via Sheffield and Alfreton, but NOT via Derby!
 

DeeGee

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Grimsby to Derby is shown as valid via Nottingham.
Grimsby to Birmingham is shown as valid via Leicester (Nottingham & Leicester)
Grimsby to Birmingham International via Peterborough comes up as requiring more than one ticket. Most journey suggestions seem to involve changing at Newark, and many then suggest via Kings Cross / Euston. That has got to be the most expensive by far. Normally fares from Leicester to anywhere north along the East Coast Main Line are not valid via Peterborough. Doncaster to Nottingham, for example, Any Permitted is valid via Grantham, Newark Northgate, Newark Northgate and walk to Castle, as well as via Sheffield and Alfreton, but NOT via Derby!

Thanks, so both the combination with the split and the "normal" ticket are valid via both Sheffield - Doncaster - Grimsby and Nottingham - Newark - Grimsby, the split tickets valid so long as I travel through Derby on a train stopping there, or change at Derby?

I'm not 100% certain of the itinerary I'll take home, as it depends on conditions and my mood on the day. Are there many trains from New Street to either Sheffield or Nottingham which DON'T stop at Derby?
 

OwlMan

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A Grimsby - Coventry SOR is only £71.70 valid to Birmingham International via Birmingham New Street
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It is valid from Grimsby by either
1) To Nottingham via Lincoln and then via Derby & Tamworth or Leicester to New Street or
2) To Derby via Sheffield and then via Leicester or Tamworth to New Street
and via the reverse routes on the return
 
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brompton rail

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All trains between Birmingham and Sheffield or Nottingham call at Derby. In fact in practical terms all trains passing through Derby stop there.
 

DeeGee

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A Grimsby - Coventry SOR is only £71.70 valid to Birmingham International via Birmingham New Street
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It is valid from Grimsby by either
1) To Nottingham via Lincoln and then via Derby & Tamworth or Leicester to New Street or
2) To Derby via Sheffield and then via Leicester or Tamworth to New Street
and via the reverse routes on the return

Nice one! That's only a few pence more than the split at Derby.

The most logical route for me outward would be Transpennine to Doncaster, Crosscountry to Birmingham and then London Midland (I assume) to the airport.

I'm guessing that this route would be fine with the ticket to Coventry? As the return is not so time critical, I'd fancy getting over to Leicester from Brum and getting EMT back from there. Would I be fine doing that? In reality, I may just return the same way I came.
 

DeeGee

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I'm going to reboot this now, as the routes are bookable and I now have the money. Can I just double check what was agreed?

The most sensible ticket for me is an Anytime Return from Cleethorpes to Coventry. This is valid to start short at Grimsby Town and to stop short at Birmingham International on the outward.

I can use this on the following combination of trains:
The Transpennine Service leaving Grimsby Town at 06:28 arriving Doncaster at 07:33
The Crosscountry Service leaving Doncaster at 07:56 arriving New Street at 09:27
The London Midland Service leaving New Street at 09:39 arriving at the airport at 09:55.

This gives me 2 and a half hours before my plane is due to depart, which, although this is non-Schengen to non-Schengen, is a gamble I'm willing to take.

It will also allow me to break journey at Nottingham or Sheffield on the way home, or Lincoln (changing at Nottingham and returning via East Midlands Trains.)

If I've got this right, I'll book tonight via Transpennine.
 
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