Night Tube

[higthomas]

Without looking up the precise details, off the top of my head, the 84 and predecessors were serving Potters Bar, Barnet and St Albans in the 1930s; the 65 from Ealing terminated at Leatherhead Garage, which was a LT country area garage, in the 1950s and 1960s, possibly earlier. I can only remember a red bus i.e. central area 93 bus to Dorking on Summer Sundays in the 1950s, basically an extension from Epsom of the Putney Bridge route. I think my godmother and I used this once from her home in Morden: we were picnicking on Box Hill.
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Given that authorities like Herts and Kent have recently reduced or abolished all subsidies to operators for evening routes, I would imagine their council taxpayers would not be too impressed to learn those same authorities were going to subsidise people returning from their jollies in Leicester Square or Camden Town on a Friday or Saturday night.

Re your last sentence, I have to entirely disagree, assuming the bus route in question would be calling at stops in Greater London before crossing the boundary. Neither the driver nor the Oyster machine would know how far you were travelling, so you'd have to tap OUT with your Oyster i.e. a negation of the tap-in only Oyster system for buses.

Could you not set it up so that when the buses get to stops outside London on night buses only the door by the driver is opened and you just make people have to essentially tap out, except that you just charge another £1.50. Or is that impossible? If I lived in Dartford or somewhere I'd very happily pay £1.50 to save a cab from Sidcup or wherever.

Or, how about places outside London have equal public transport funding per head and so could fund such services? But I guess I'm just being stupid. People outside London should drive, we don't need public transport

 

[matt_world2004]

Didnt london bus services go quite a distance outside London with London Country bus services the 724 went from High Wycombe to Gravesend.

 

[Deerfold]

Didnt london bus services go quite a distance outside London with London Country bus services the 724 went from High Wycombe to Gravesend.

The 7xx series were Greenline services which were usually limited stop for much of their route.

London Country services did go out at least as far as High Wycombe, Hitchin, Amersham and such like.

Most of the Greenline services were killed off by improving rail services and deteriorating traffic conditions. Arriva still own the name but only operate a handful of services and licensing the name for First for the 701/2.

 

[transmanche]

Didnt london bus services go quite a distance outside London with London Country bus services the 724 went from High Wycombe to Gravesend.

Yes, they were originally part of London Transport - the 'Country Bus' department. But it was split from London Transport in 1970 to become the NBC subsidiary London Country. Whilst at the same time, the rest of London Transport was transferred to the control of the GLC.

 

[Busaholic]

Didnt london bus services go quite a distance outside London with London Country bus services the 724 went from High Wycombe to Gravesend.

Take your point, but the 724 never went further south than Romford. Tilbury Ferry, on the other side of the Thames from Gravesend, was on the 723 service which made the relatively boring journey from there to Aldgate.

 

[Dstock7080]

Piccadilly Line from 16 December 2016:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37834896

The Night Tube will be launched on the Piccadilly line on 16 December, London mayor Sadiq Khan has announced.
It will be the fifth line on the London Underground to have a 24-hour weekend operation once the service, which started in August, begins on the Northern line on 18 November.
The Central, Victoria and Jubilee lines all currently have 24-hour Tube trains.
The mayor said the service had "exceeded expectations with more than one million journeys made already".
Night Tube trains on the Piccadilly line will run about every 10 minutes between Cockfosters and Heathrow Terminal 5.
However, there will be no service on the Terminal 4 loop or between Acton Town and Uxbridge.

 

[MrB]

Full night tube rollout finally complete in December then!!

 

[Mikey C]

Could you not set it up so that when the buses get to stops outside London on night buses only the door by the driver is opened and you just make people have to essentially tap out, except that you just charge another £1.50. Or is that impossible? If I lived in Dartford or somewhere I'd very happily pay £1.50 to save a cab from Sidcup or wherever.

Or, how about places outside London have equal public transport funding per head and so could fund such services? But I guess I'm just being stupid. People outside London should drive, we don't need public transport

The N72 night bus used to go (every 2 hours) to Dartford, a very slow journey as it meandered throughout most of SE London! Now, not only does Dartford in Kent not get a bus, but neither does Crayford within the London border which is slightly surprising.

 

[rebmcr]

Full night tube rollout finally complete in December then!!

At least until 4LM is finished.

 

[Busaholic]

The N72 night bus used to go (every 2 hours) to Dartford, a very slow journey as it meandered throughout most of SE London! Now, not only does Dartford in Kent not get a bus, but neither does Crayford within the London border which is slightly surprising.

The N1 used to go a lot further - to Gillingham (Kent, not Dorset) which is by far the furthest a London night bus has ventured!

 

[transmanche]

The N1 used to go a lot further - to Gillingham (Kent, not Dorset) which is by far the furthest a London night bus has ventured!

The NX1, later replaced by the N81. (The N1 has never gone beyond Thamesmead.)

 

[number7]

When is the earliest they will run the Night Tube on any other lines?

 

[Dstock7080]

When is the earliest they will run the Night Tube on any other lines?

Parts of the SSR would probably be next but must wait for the 4LM Four Lines Modernisation to take effect, the Circle/Hammersmith Line could be ready by end-2019, District Line mid-2020, Metropolitan Line end-2020.

 

[Lrd]

I think the plan was for the Circle Line to be next, then all National Rail terminal stations would be served by Night Tube.

 

[rebmcr]

I think the plan was for the Circle Line to be next, then all National Rail terminal stations would be served by Night Tube.

Would that plan be for the whole 'teacup' service, or the original circle?

 

[Lrd]

Would that plan be for the whole 'teacup' service, or the original circle?

I have no idea unfortunately

 

[mrmartin]

Finally got the night tube for once (I tend to go out late in areas not on the tube network). Very good service compared to getting night bus or even taxi - nearly 2x quicker than an uber costing 15 times the money.

Central line trains were getting closed to crush loaded outside of liverpool street. Definitely think they should look at increasing the frequency of those trains.

 

[Dstock7080]

Central line trains were getting closed to crush loaded outside of liverpool street. Definitely think they should look at increasing the frequency of those trains.

Around what time was this?
Disappointed that stations are being closed to incoming passengers.

Let's see how the Piccadilly trials go next weekend.

 

[Lrd]

Around what time was this?
Disappointed that stations are being closed to incoming passengers.

Let's see how the Piccadilly trials go next weekend.

Central Line is busy eastbound pretty much all night, it quietens down a little at about 4am. Westbound not so busy but still a lot of people going to Shepherd's Bush and Ealing Broadway. I think there is enough demand for the service to be doubled until at least 4am.

I wonder if they'll have enough trains to do the trials on the Picc?

 

[deltic]

Looking at the Victoria Line, still quite low loadings this last weekend. A brief skim through finds no train above 30% loading, most averaging between 5 and 15%.

Whilst this may be comparative to some off-peak times, it's hardly efficient bearing in mind the infrequency of the service, and the fixed costs of station staffing, running costs etc.

Time will tell if things will pick up.

Do you how loadings are looking now - do you have access to all lines or just Victoria? I'd imagine as we are moving into office party season loads will start to pick up quite a bit

 

[Dstock7080]

I wonder if they'll have enough trains to do the trials on the Picc?

Only 21 trains are required for Piccadilly Night Tube service, 78 required for Mon-Fri AM peak.

 

[jon0844]

Only 21 trains are required for Piccadilly Night Tube service, 78 required for Mon-Fri AM peak.

Seems like they only have about 2 serviceable trains at the moment!

 

[Dstock7080]

I'm still wondering when the first Night Tube Rail Replacement Buses will operate.

It was meant to be the Piccadilly Line back in March, which would have been interesting. Assuming the Jubilee Line is up and running by the end of the year, there's a closure planned in January which will require replacement buses.

Although there are replacement buses operating during the West Hampstead works, none are operating overnight - passengers should use Night Bus services.

 

[bramling]

Although there are replacement buses operating during the West Hampstead works, none are operating overnight - passengers should use Night Bus services.

Would be easier for them to just be on a flaming night bus in the first place. I can't help but form the impression the Night Tube is a bit of a flop. My impression, certainly on the Northern and Vic lines is of pretty empty trains running about most of the night - and looking at the loading figures on Trackernet backs this up. For example on the Victoria Line the last two nights I've not seen any train over 20% loaded, with most under 10% loaded right down to 1%.

Really not a good use of taxpaper's money, and I think it's a disgrace that we are currently seeing stations closed during normal traffic hours due to non-availability of staff, yet we have resources wasted on Night Tube serving comparatively a handful of people, all of whom have access to good quality alternatives in the form of night buses.

 

[Busaholic]

Would be easier for them to just be on a flaming night bus in the first place. I can't help but form the impression the Night Tube is a bit of a flop. My impression, certainly on the Northern and Vic lines is of pretty empty trains running about most of the night - and looking at the loading figures on Trackernet backs this up. For example on the Victoria Line the last two nights I've not seen any train over 20% loaded, with most under 10% loaded right down to 1%.

Really not a good use of taxpaper's money, and I think it's a disgrace that we are currently seeing stations closed during normal traffic hours due to non-availability of staff, yet we have resources wasted on Night Tube serving comparatively a handful of people, all of whom have access to good quality alternatives in the form of night buses.

I was quite surprised to see how enthusiastic Sadiq Khan was about introducing this Boris Johnson initiative : it wouldn't just have been playing politics for him to have said 'we are introducing this for a trial period to see if it is needed, and will review it after 12 months of operation'. As you say, cutbacks are having to be made elsewhere, on buses as well as tube, to help pay for this.

 

[Kite159]

Would be easier for them to just be on a flaming night bus in the first place. I can't help but form the impression the Night Tube is a bit of a flop. My impression, certainly on the Northern and Vic lines is of pretty empty trains running about most of the night - and looking at the loading figures on Trackernet backs this up. For example on the Victoria Line the last two nights I've not seen any train over 20% loaded, with most under 10% loaded right down to 1%.

Really not a good use of taxpaper's money, and I think it's a disgrace that we are currently seeing stations closed during normal traffic hours due to non-availability of staff, yet we have resources wasted on Night Tube serving comparatively a handful of people, all of whom have access to good quality alternatives in the form of night buses.

Well it is January with the weather outside rather cold and finances looking tight for people after Christmas, I.e staying in rather than heading out

 

[bramling]

Well it is January with the weather outside rather cold and finances looking tight for people after Christmas, I.e staying in rather than heading out

You may well have a good point, however for me this just shows why Night Tube is a bad thing -- it's simply inefficient keeping the system open for low demand. With a night bus all you're paying for is the wear and tear plus fuel on the bus plus the driver. It's simply ridiculous keeping the railway open and staffed for such low numbers of people. On a different note, I have the greatest respect for the cleaners, who are having to clear up some utterly disgraceful messes left by the (few!) people who are actually using the service - no one should have to be clearing up after these animals.
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I was quite surprised to see how enthusiastic Sadiq Khan was about introducing this Boris Johnson initiative : it wouldn't just have been playing politics for him to have said 'we are introducing this for a trial period to see if it is needed, and will review it after 12 months of operation'. As you say, cutbacks are having to be made elsewhere, on buses as well as tube, to help pay for this.

Yes so was I. I suspect it's an electoral calculation, my impression being much of Khan's agenda is cynically based on a re-election agenda. A policy along the lines of "Night Tube is already late, we've managed without it for that time without people being too bothered, I want to implement a fares freeze, so let's scrap the night tube to help pay for the fares freeze which benefits *everyone*, meanwhile I'll do a review of the night bus network to see how we can improve it to deliver as many of the benefits of night tube as possible but less expensively than keeping the railway open" would have been acceptable to most, I'd have thought.

 

[number7]

London is a 24 hour city. It needs a 24 hour tube at weekends.

I believe it will stand the test of time and prove to be very successful as we get further into the year.

 

[Lrd]

The Central Line has some very healthy loadings (especially before Christmas) and is usually full and standing up until about 0330 where it will quieten down a little bit until 0500 when the workers wake up and head into town.

Oxford Circus, Tottenham Court Road and Holborn always all have full platforms.

 

[Mojo]

Well it is January with the weather outside rather cold and finances looking tight for people after Christmas, I.e staying in rather than heading out

It was dead before Christmas as well.