Class 313 GN withdrawal plan

[adamedwards]

Is there a plan to use the influx of new trains to GN lines to start an early withdrawal of the 313s eg by removing them from Kings Cross trains? As some of them have leaking roofs, a source of extra spares for other bits may be needed. Or might such a cascade be used to run more trains to Moorgate?

 

[SprinterMan]

No such plan exists. The 313s are in short supply and all are needed for existing peak Moorgate trains. They will be replaced on a 2 for 1 basis by 717s as originally planned.

Adam

 

[D365]

Eh? Have you made this exact some posting before?

 

[Failed Unit]

No such plan exists. The 313s are in short supply and all are needed for existing peak Moorgate trains. They will be replaced on a 2 for 1 basis by 717s as originally planned.

Adam

I think he was meaning on AC only services such as the 1828 London Kings Cross - Welwyn Garden City.

However i think they all inter mingle with Moorgate services.

i am sure if they could FCC would have done it to make sure all Moorgate services are 6 car.

 

[D365]

adamedwards, you've already started a discussion on this exact same topic within the past year. As there's been no significant change to the cascade plan I don't see why you needed to post this again.

 

[trainmania100]

Wasn't there tumors that the southern 313s were getting an extra coach to make them 4 car? Sorry if this sounds silly but I recall them getting the fourth coach from the other 313s?

 

[adamedwards]

My apologies for repeating myself. Before I posted I searched for class 313 and didn't see anything that reminded me i had done so.

 

[455driver]

Wasn't there tumors that the southern 313s were getting an extra coach to make them 4 car? Sorry if this sounds silly but I recall them getting the fourth coach from the other 313s?

As only the Driving carriages are powered inserting an extra middle coach would make them very slow.

 

[reddragon]

As only the Driving carriages are powered inserting an extra middle coach would make them very slow.

Why?

The identical class 508s ran as 4-cars on the southern DC as do class 315s today. Quicker loading times on busy services would be a benefit.

The spare 315 4th cars would make a better addition when they move to coke cans in May.

 

[Class377/5]

Wasn't there tumors that the southern 313s were getting an extra coach to make them 4 car? Sorry if this sounds silly but I recall them getting the fourth coach from the other 313s?

No plans like that exist.

 

[Class377/5]

Is there a plan to use the influx of new trains to GN lines to start an early withdrawal of the 313s eg by removing them from Kings Cross trains? As some of them have leaking roofs, a source of extra spares for other bits may be needed. Or might such a cascade be used to run more trains to Moorgate?

Although it seems you've posted this before no-one has actually stated the reason (on this thread) why the 313s can't be withdrawn by another other stock.

The Northern City Line (NCL) is a maximum of six coaches at the underground station so any stock needs to be in multiples of 3 or 6. Nothing else GTR has fits this so nothing else can replace the 313 on the NCL (the Southern 313s cannot be used as they have no AC equipment any more).

As for the class 717, well there should be some news shortly on the build of the first unit as the 707 order is nearly complete now.

 

[Roast Veg]

Aren't there also some difficult gauge restrictions on the NCL? I don't doubt that the 717 will fit, but will it have a slightly smaller profile?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Pointless adding an extra carriage. The units only have 800hp to shift them and the extra weight would significantly affect performance

 

[jon0844]

Aren't there also some difficult gauge restrictions on the NCL? I don't doubt that the 717 will fit, but will it have a slightly smaller profile?

I think this is a myth. I guess we'll find out if the 717s are indeed modified.

 

[D365]

Aren't there also some difficult gauge restrictions on the NCL? I don't doubt that the 717 will fit, but will it have a slightly smaller profile?

Doubt it, I'm sure that the Class 700s would fit if they were reduced to six-car length.

 

[jon0844]

Nobody seems to know if it's true that a 378 was tested there some years back, but I am fairly sure that there's no specific restriction on size - just the issue of length, cab end doors and dual power.

 

[Class377/5]

Aren't there also some difficult gauge restrictions on the NCL? I don't doubt that the 717 will fit, but will it have a slightly smaller profile?

Actually from what I understand the restrictions are more strict on the Thameslink Core than NCL.

The 717 have the same body as all others Desiro Cities.

The 717s have a end door which dispruts the Desiro City look in a couple of ways.

 

[bramling]

The 717s have a end door which dispruts the Desiro City look in a couple of ways.

Personal taste, but I find the Desiro City a pretty ugly train, so no great loss to the styling IMO!

 

[Class377/5]

Personal taste, but I find the Desiro City a pretty ugly train, so no great loss to the styling IMO!

I'm curious for drivers side as the 700 is great for viewing angles. The 717 completely change that.

Looks are as dividing as the interior it seems

 

[jon0844]

I'm curious for drivers side as the 700 is great for viewing angles. The 717 completely change that.

Looks are as dividing as the interior it seems

Maybe the door can have a fold down table fitted...

 

[Class377/5]

Maybe the door can have a fold down table fitted...

Thought GTR had said no tables but plugs and wifi as they are pure metro units?

 

[D365]

Thought GTR had said no tables but plugs and wifi as they are pure metro units?

Think he means the cab-end doors in the driver compartments.

 

[Class377/5]

Think he means the cab-end doors in the driver compartments.

Still be a table for his bits in there I think

 

[jon0844]

Think he means the cab-end doors in the driver compartments.

Yes, my silly sense of humour at play again!

 

[mr_jrt]

...wouldn't it make more sense to just transfer the units as-is and run them in multiple? i.e. as a 6 or 9-car train in the peaks? ...or are there tight platform length limits on the coastway stations?

 

[Class377/5]

...wouldn't it make more sense to just transfer the units as-is and run them in multiple? i.e. as a 6 or 9-car train in the peaks? ...or are there tight platform length limits on the coastway stations?

Quite a few limits on the coastway stations.

 

[Failed Unit]

...wouldn't it make more sense to just transfer the units as-is and run them in multiple? i.e. as a 6 or 9-car train in the peaks? ...or are there tight platform length limits on the coastway stations?

I don't think the users will be happy with them either. Toiletless trains on the route is something users don't like. They are 40 years old so I don't think many will think they have much use left.

Surely if more capacity is needed the 319s would be a better solution. Although I am sure there is an issue here, sighting of DOO equipment maybe?

 

[Bald Rick]

I don't think the users will be happy with them either. Toiletless trains on the route is something users don't like. They are 40 years old so I don't think many will think they have much use left.

The trains or the users?

 

[Fincra5]

I don't think the users will be happy with them either. Toiletless trains on the route is something users don't like. They are 40 years old so I don't think many will think they have much use left.

Surely if more capacity is needed the 319s would be a better solution. Although I am sure there is an issue here, sighting of DOO equipment maybe?

Yes the better trains for us to use would be 319s for the extra coach and toilets.. wouldn't be able to stop at Normans Bay or Pevensey Bay.. but then there's only one 313 that currently stops at Normans Bay (each direction) once a day.

They can be worked by guards, with training that currently work 313s... but I doubt GTR would want to, when in a couple of years 313's are likely to be replaced by trains with DOO equipment.

 

[Failed Unit]

The trains or the users?

The users of course. Running a railway would be easy without passengers getting in the way.