Ticket rejected at Salford Central barriers

[snail]

I often travel to Salford Central via Wigan (North Western > Wallgate) on a Manchester Stns ticket. I can get through the new barriers at Wigan Wallgate no problem but when I get to Salford Central my ticket is rejected as "seek assistance".

Is this normal behaviour after transferring via an intermediate station? When I have a bit more time I'm thinking of trying Victoria or Oxford Rd to see if it happens there too.

 

[Llanigraham]

Considering Salford is a separate city, is it included in the "Manchester Stations" group?

 

[Merseysider]

It happens at Salford Crescent as well with tickets to Bolton, Walkden or Salford Central. The Oxford Road ones are dodgy too, rejecting only last week a Liverpool to Manchester advance as 'not valid at this location', and will incorrectly reject B1 Off Peak tickets at will in the afternoon peak period. The person who programmed them did an absolute crap job.

 

[sheff1]

Yes, quite normal to get a message accusing you of illegal behaviour when trying to use a ticket barrier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, quite normal to get a message accusing you of illegal behaviour when trying to use a ticket barrier.

Presumably though they quite deliberately show as a code rather than text, so the staff won't claim you are doing something illegal when you actually aren't?

 

[sheff1]

Presumably though they quite deliberately show as a code rather than text, so the staff won't claim you are doing something illegal when you actually aren't?

No, as JakeF stated, the text of the message displayed is "not valid at this location". This is clearly stating that you are trying to use an invalid ticket and, as is frequently pointed out on here, using or attempting to use an invalid ticket for rail travel is a criminal offence.

To be clear this message is displayed, not for some bizarre loophole tickets, but for straightforward tickets such as the one described by JakeF. On numerous occasions my ticket with an origin of Leeds has been rejected at Leeds with the "not valid at this location" message.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, as JakeF stated, the text of the message displayed is "not valid at this location". This is clearly stating that you are trying to use an invalid ticket and, as is frequently pointed out on here, using or attempting to use an invalid ticket for rail travel is a criminal offence.

To be clear this message is displayed, not for some bizarre loophole tickets, but for straightforward tickets such as the one described by JakeF. On numerous occasions my ticket with an origin of Leeds has been rejected at Leeds with the "not valid at this location" message.

That's interesting - I've not come across any barriers that display a textual error message rather than just "seek assistance" and a code. I guess these are newer ones?

 

[Starmill]

I got a message that said "ticket expired" when I tried to exit with an SVR return portion on its second day of validity recently.

I often walk through open barriers that say 'no ticket required' on them - I assume that is intended as authorisation to board the train without a ticket, even though that ticket office was open?

 

[LowLevel]

I got a message that said "ticket expired" when I tried to exit with an SVR return portion on its second day of validity recently.

I often walk through open barriers that say 'no ticket required' on them - I assume that is intended as authorisation to board the train without a ticket, even though that ticket office was open?

I suspect you'd be quite successful in arguing that it exempts you from prosecution in terms of the byelaw regarding passing through ticket gates, and less successful in arguing that it subsequently permits you to board the train

 

[Mojo]

That's interesting - I've not come across any barriers that display a textual error message rather than just "seek assistance" and a code. I guess these are newer ones?

All S&B ticket gates display an error message as text. There are five options as per this FoI request from 2011. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/64294/response/161338/attach/3/POD Codes.pdf

Further, gates on the Underground will display a message such as "36 Please top up" where appropriate. Not sure if this is all Cubic gates in London or just on the Underground.

 

[snail]

Considering Salford is a separate city, is it included in the "Manchester Stations" group?

Salford Central is, Salford Crescent isn't.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Considering Salford is a separate city, is it included in the "Manchester Stations" group?

Salford Central is, Salford Crescent isn't.

Neither Salford Crescent nor Salford Central are part of 'Manchester Stns' or 'Manchester CTLZ'.

Salford Central is, however, part of 'Manchester Group Routeing Point' in the Routeing Guide.

 

[Merseysider]

Neither Salford Crescent nor Salford Central are part of 'Manchester Stns' or 'Manchester CTLZ'.

Salford Central is, however, part of 'Manchester Group Routeing Point' in the Routeing Guide.

I agree with you.

Wikipedia, however, doesn't, and is possibly the source of some of the confusion.

The Manchester station group is a station group of five railway stations in Manchester city centre, England consisting of Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester Victoria, Deansgate and Salford Central railway stations. The station group is printed on national railway tickets as MANCHESTER STNS.

The citation used links to the Routeing Guide, thus misinterpreting what 'Manchester Stations' actually consists of. Manchester Stations definitely does not include SFD/SLD.

 

[sheff1]

Yes, quite normal to get a message accusing you of illegal behaviour when trying to use a ticket barrier.

Well it took less than a week for it to happen to me again. According to today's message from EMT I was travelling illegally when using a Derby to Oakham ticket to exit at Leicester.

 

[mildertduck]

Wikipedia, however, doesn't, and is possibly the source of some of the confusion..

I have hopefully made the wikipedia article more correct - I would appreciate your opinions on it...

 

[Joe Paxton]

Well it took less than a week for it to happen to me again. According to today's message from EMT I was travelling illegally when using a Derby to Oakham ticket to exit at Leicester.

Isn't it very common for gates to reject tickets at stations which feature neither as the origin or destination printed/encoded on the ticket?

The displayed "not valid at this location" message on some gates is bad though, as opposed to a generic message such as "seek assistance".

 

[Merseysider]

I have hopefully made the wikipedia article more correct - I would appreciate your opinions on it...

Looks good to me! Well done.

Well it took less than a week for it to happen to me again. According to today's message from EMT I was travelling illegally when using a Derby to Oakham ticket to exit at Leicester.

Are machines capable of committing libel?

 

[BurtonM]

The Oxford Road ones are dodgy too, rejecting only last week a Liverpool to Manchester advance as 'not valid at this location', and will incorrectly reject B1 Off Peak tickets at will in the afternoon peak period. The person who programmed them did an absolute crap job.

I've had the Oxford Road barrier not let me in on a Levenshulme-Stalybridge ticket before (return portion going back to SYB so break of journey permitted). I'd cycled up from Levenshulme having missed my first train, in order to catch my connection.
The Manchester barriers will reject any ticket that's already been through a barrier facing the same way (ie trying to prevent re-use of tickets), which makes sense I suppose - I wonder if you were to leave Victoria and enter Oxford Road en route to Liverpool, how would the MCO barrier react?

 

[Bletchleyite]

As that's an unnecessary double back I'm not unduly surprised- only Permitted because of the station group rule which is more useful in the other direction in most cases.

 

[Merseysider]

g to prevent re-use of tickets), which makes sense I suppose - I wonder if you were to leave Victoria and enter Oxford Road en route to Liverpool, how would the MCO barrier react?

Already had this happen a few times Salford Central -> Birkenhead Central SVR rejected. Bolton -> Birkenhead Central SVR rejected. Salford Central -> Belle Vue CDR rejected. Normally 'not valid at this location'. Also get a 'reject passback' after breaking journey at MCO. It would almost be funny if it weren't so bloody annoying.

 

[furlong]

If the barrier is printing a message 'not valid at this location' on a ticket that is valid at the location, you should report that to the company and give them a reasonable deadline to fix it before you escalate the matter to the ORR for investigation as a (fairly straightforward?) breach of the Consumer Regulations - it could lead to some types of people buying a more expensive ticket than necessary.

 

[Merseysider]

Yet more BS from the barriers in Manchester; this time at Victoria. Return portion of a Bolton - Birkenhead SVR, used as far as Manchester on the 14th. Put it through the barriers this morning to be told 'TICKET EXPIRED SEEK ASSISTANCE'. It's getting reported to Northern of course, but it shouldn't be happening in the first place.