Edinburgh Tram developments

[takno]

Part suspended today due to flooding between Edinburgh Park Central and the airport. Given it stopped raining around midnight Im rather surprised it didnt happen yesturday instead.

It's the dive-under to Gateway which is flooded (as you might expect). The rain was still going pretty strong by midnight here, although it could have stopped shortly afterwards since that's when I shut all the windows and started ignoring it! Surface water can do strange things though, could be a nearby stream bursting its banks or storm drains getting overwhelmed

 

[Blindtraveler]

I switched on the washing machine about 1am and not raining then.
I had forgotten about that diveunder, I wonder if this will be a regular thing?

 

[gsnedders]

I switched on the washing machine about 1am and not raining then.
I had forgotten about that diveunder, I wonder if this will be a regular thing?

As another anecdote, when I left Leith and drove through the city centre at 12:45 it was still raining fairly hard, and it stopped raining on my car only once I was by Eurocentral.

 

[fgwrich]

Indeed it was the dive-under. Has anyone seen the pictures of it yet? If not, here's a link. It's a little deep!

Images from Edinburgh Trams twitter.

 

[ModernRailways]

Indeed it was the dive-under. Has anyone seen the pictures of it yet? If not, here's a link. It's a little deep!

Images from Edinburgh Trams twitter.

Looks like a river that someone's decided to stick some overhead running lines through.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Question I have is was this thought of a t design/build stage? Or was it simply a blocked drain?

 

[edwin_m]

They should have designed sump-thing to deal with that.

 

[Zoidberg]

They should have designed sump-thing to deal with that.

Very punny

 

[Clip]

Question I have is was this thought of a t design/build stage? Or was it simply a blocked drain?

Thats an awful lot of water for most storm drains to get rid of I would say

 

[Blindtraveler]

Probably right there. Sad thing is anyone who has lived round here for a while knowa that area is prone to getting more than a little damp and waterlogged if we get megga rain and I do wonder if the designers bothered to check/if anyone bothered to tell them!

 

[asylumxl]

Probably right there. Sad thing is anyone who has lived round here for a while knowa that area is prone to getting more than a little damp and waterlogged if we get megga rain and I do wonder if the designers bothered to check/if anyone bothered to tell them!

I'd imagine the engineers were well aware. That doesn't necessarily mean it was built correctly or that the clients went with the best choice...

 

[Blindtraveler]

In other news we finally got announcement of a SNP Labour council administration today after weeks of uncertainty and argument. This is not the outcome I personally wanted and not the one that IMO will be best but the first BIG decision facing them is to extend or not and if so how does it get paid for? Watch this space

 

[YorkshireBear]

Probably right there. Sad thing is anyone who has lived round here for a while knowa that area is prone to getting more than a little damp and waterlogged if we get megga rain and I do wonder if the designers bothered to check/if anyone bothered to tell them!

The alternatives may have been prohibitively expensive.

Better to design a system that can survive a 1 in 10 year storm than it not get built at all.

Designing drainage for infrastructure is a very delicate balance.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well I'm no drains expert but given just how much the bluddy thing cost in the first place its a bit gutting for something like this to happen to it during a not to uncommom spell of heavy weather.

 

[overthewater]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-40866842

The final decision on whether to extend Edinburgh's tram network to Newhaven will be taken in 2018. Councillors are to examine a fresh report on the case for the three-mile route through Leith, which is currently forecast to cost £165.2m. A vote will be held on the business case for the plan and whether to let officials start a procurement process for a contractor for the project.

A final decision on whether to go ahead would then be made in Autumn 2018. If approved, the council believes construction would take approximately three years, with the first passengers boarding the new route "in the first half of 2022".
The proposed extension, which was signed off in principle by councillors in 2015, would see trams run from York Place down Leith Walk and along to Ocean Terminal, before terminating at Newhaven.
The business case for the route forecasts passenger numbers to double in the opening year of the service, to 13.7m, while Lothian Buses is projected to continue to perform "strongly".
Public inquiry

The existing £776m tram route between the city centre and Edinburgh Airport began operation in May 2014, but only after six years of disruption and cost over-runs, and a bitter dispute between the city council and its contractor.
Oral hearings in a public inquiry over the saga will begin in September. Figures released in December 2016 showed passenger numbers had doubled between 2014 and 2015, but services were still running at an average of 25% capacity.
Council leader Adam McVey said members would study the business case for the new route to make sure it was "as robust as possible", so they can have confidence the project is "delivered on time and on budget". City of Edinburgh Council

Edinburgh councillors will consider the business case for the extension both in committee and the full council The Leith ward councillor said: "As the fastest growing city in Scotland, and with our existing system nearing capacity, we have to look at ways of enhancing our public transport system. "The planned tram extension route takes in Scotland's most densely populated area. And taken with low car ownership, developing high-capacity transport to Newhaven would bring a range of local benefits in terms of boosting economic growth, creating jobs, enhancing accessibility, reducing congestion and improving air quality." The business case for the extension will be considered first by the transport and environment committee, on 4 September, and then by the full council on 21 September.

Transport convener Lesley Macinnes added: "The outline business case demonstrates good early performance for the tram, with patronage expected to double in the first year. "We have the opportunity now to study the numbers in more depth before deciding on whether to progress, taking into account the needs of the city's taxpayers, and ensuring we learn lessons from the past."

 

[Blindtraveler]

Naturally I am against it but the arguments for and against have been had over and again on this thread so not about to start again.

Cheers for posting OTW, was about to myself.

 

[overthewater]

Naturally I am against it but the arguments for and against have been had over and again on this thread so not about to start again.

Cheers for posting OTW, was about to myself.

My questions are:

* Who paying for this? is ST James Central paying some sort of kick back for this?

* Will there be the political well to push it down leith walk?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I believe the Picardy roundabout funding had been offered to them by the people developing St James Quarter but on a time limitted basis.
If we come back in a years time and find that they have delayed to long and its gone then thats an instant way of ailionating the public.

 

[overthewater]

I believe the Picardy roundabout funding had been offered to them by the people developing St James Quarter but on a time limitted basis.
If we come back in a years time and find that they have delayed to long and its gone then thats an instant way of ailionating the public.

No, This is all time very well.... Remember Leith street closure. So there really cant dig up that roundabout while those works are on. Of course when are there due to finish? July next year just before the Edinburgh Festival...

So September/October 2018 is a perfect time to dig it all up and make improvements.. If what you said is correct the its all formality

 

[Chrism20]

Picardy Place and that god awful roundabout at the top of Elm Row are the only two big obstacles in the proposed extension.

Personally I think the Elm Row roundabout should have been converted to a junction before St James shut with a rather large yellow box painted right across it with cameras on it like they have in London which ship out fines to the offending drivers. Whilst Leith St is the big issue at the moment more problems are being created by Elm Row roundabout which makes Leith St feel worse than it actually is.

Almost all the utility works on the walk, Constitution St and the waterfront along to Ocean Terminal has been done so it really should be a case of wiring it and laying tracks. The work already done on leith walk has been done with the extension in mind. There is room for platforms etc at the proposed places and I would imagine that the Zebra crossings will be replaced with traffic light crossings (which they probably should be now) whilst the cycle lanes thankfully have been designed to be kept away from the tracks.

It will take time but progress should be quite sprightly once they are over those two roundabouts.

 

[och aye]

Posted on SSC:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1657991&page=63

Stakeholder Update 106
Leith Programme – Phase 4 (Pilrig Street to McDonald Road)
Leith Programme Phase 4 is currently observing the Edinburgh Festival embargo on road works within the city and, as such, has now demobilised fully from Leith Walk and Iona Street. The Contractor will return to site to re-mobilise and commence the remaining works as of Monday 28th August. Works will include completion of remaining footpath paving at Brunswick Street, and the Leith Walk road resurfacing from Iona Street to Brunswick Street, including construction of the raised tables at the junctions of Iona, Albert and Brunswick Street, with any remaining ancillary works, ie. installation of bicycle stands, also being carried out. Works will also include the implementation of the 2-stage right turn for cyclists at the McDonald Road/Brunswick Road junction, and putting into use the segregated cycleway, for which the Council will be carrying out a focussed communications campaign to provide advice on the use of, and the behaviours associated with, these new elements of the street. It is anticipated that remaining works will take 10 weeks, with traffic management and road closures implemented as required. On recommencement of the project works, the Leith Programme team will continue with the weekly project updates to be issued to all stakeholders with details of the ongoing works.

Tram to Newhaven

Further to the Council’s decision in 2015 to investigate the feasibility of taking Edinburgh Tram to Newhaven, a report will be going to Transport and Environment Committee on 4 September 2017 and then to full Council on 21 September 2017 on the suggested way forward.

The report will give details of the Outline Business Case (OBC) for taking Edinburgh Tram to Newhaven and seek authority from full Council on 21 September 2017 to enter into a procurement exercise to identify a potential contractor for the project. A final decision on whether to proceed and, with which contractor, would be made in Autumn 2018 by Council. The report will be made public on the City of Edinburgh Council website on Tuesday 29 August 2017.

As such, a request has been made to the Scottish Government to sist (put on hold) the Phase 5 Public Hearing until this decision is made, while any further design/consultation work in regards to Phase 6 has also been stopped at this time. In the event Tram goes ahead, the remaining Leith Programme works will be incorporated into the Tram to Newhaven project. Phase 4 of the Leith Programme (Pilrig Street to McDonald Road) will continue, and will be completed by October 2017.

If the project goes ahead the construction will take approximately 3 years and will be open to the public by between April - June 2022. Once phase 4 of the Leith Programme is finished in October 2017 there will be no non-emergency works on Leith Walk until Spring 2019. The estimated cost of the project including construction costs, risk and inflation is £165.2m. The proposed route goes down Leith Walk and Constitution Street, Ocean Way and along Ocean Drive to Ocean Terminal and beyond. Currently over six million people use the Tram and by taking it to Leith the OBC forecasts this to increase to 13 million. Lothian Buses is also projected to continue to perform strongly.

 

[och aye]

Picardy Place and that god awful roundabout at the top of Elm Row are the only two big obstacles in the proposed extension.

Personally I think the Elm Row roundabout should have been converted to a junction before St James shut with a rather large yellow box painted right across it with cameras on it like they have in London which ship out fines to the offending drivers. Whilst Leith St is the big issue at the moment more problems are being created by Elm Row roundabout which makes Leith St feel worse than it actually is.

Almost all the utility works on the walk, Constitution St and the waterfront along to Ocean Terminal has been done so it really should be a case of wiring it and laying tracks. The work already done on leith walk has been done with the extension in mind. There is room for platforms etc at the proposed places and I would imagine that the Zebra crossings will be replaced with traffic light crossings (which they probably should be now) whilst the cycle lanes thankfully have been designed to be kept away from the tracks.

It will take time but progress should be quite sprightly once they are over those two roundabouts.

When (if?) the Picardy Placeworks do go ahead, it should look something like this. So in essence putting the road allignments back to the way they were before more or less. There has been chat that a hotel type development is meant to go where the roundabout is in the long run.

 

[Chrism20]

When (if?) the Picardy Placeworks do go ahead, it should look something like this. So in essence putting the road allignments back to the way they were before more or less. There has been chat that a hotel type development is meant to go where the roundabout is in the long run.

Thanks. That certainly seems like a sensible thing to do, here's hoping they do the same with the other one as it's a nightmare. Traffic coming up the walk blocks the roundabout completely which means traffic bound for London Rd starts backing up as it can't get round then traffic coming off London Rd can't get out either gridlocking everything.

I had completely forgot about the proposed hotel there as well.

I'm all for the extension. Living two minutes from one of the proposed stops probably has something to do with that although I can understand why after all the previous problems others aren't so keen.

I'd imagine that there will be a lot more focus on the extension to make sure it goes to plan if it goes ahead.

 

[Blindtraveler]

£165.2m more debt that the city can't afford and if it could that would be better spent bluddy joke, should be haulted now.

At least if it does happen therel be 1 guaranteed passenger in the form of Chrism20.

 

[theageofthetra]

£165.2m more debt that the city can't afford and if it could that would be better spent bluddy joke, should be haulted now.

At least if it does happen therel be 1 guaranteed passenger in the form of Chrism20.

I'm sure as usual the English taxpayer will pick up the tab. I look forward to using it so I feel I get value for money.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sorry to shatter your illusions but they mortgaged the city for the next 3 deckades to fund the last lot and want to do the same again. Meanwhile in the real world the roads are crumblimg the bins overflowing and public services are beein g squeezed tighter than a Thameslink season ticket holders wallet on renewal day.

 

[Chrism20]

£165.2m more debt that the city can't afford and if it could that would be better spent bluddy joke, should be haulted now.

At least if it does happen therel be 1 guaranteed passenger in the form of Chrism20.

Sorry to shatter your illusions but they mortgaged the city for the next 3 deckades to fund the last lot and want to do the same again. Meanwhile in the real world the roads are crumblimg the bins overflowing and public services are beein g squeezed tighter than a Thameslink season ticket holders wallet on renewal day.

What a complete load of twaddle.

Councils can borrow at extremely attractive rates in comparison to normal business and consumers. Extending the line will make more viable than it currently is and will allow the council to pay down the loans from tram money rather than funds from elsewhere.

Yes services are being cut to the bone, if they are being skinned in Edinburgh what's the excuse in Aberdeen, Dundee, Glasgow, Falkirk, Ayrshire etc? The reason is the amount they get every year is coming down whilst things like council tax hasn't went up so saving need to be made and the cost of things need to increase. This isn't an Edinburgh phenomenon it's happening up and down the country.

Yep the bins are a disgrace but the problems could be easily rectified with a bit of proper management.

Roads crumbling? Don't make me laugh. I do 25,000 miles a year and the state of the roads in Edinburgh in comparison to comparable cities such as Glasgow, Aberdeen, Dundee, Stirling, Newcastle, Carlisle are either better or no worse.

If this is the best opposition you can come up with for an extension which would partly lift the financial burden by making it self sufficient it shows the anti-tram contingent are getting desperate.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I could and can come up with plenty better but its already been done to death so am not bothering. Note however my gladness that at least 1 passenger who isnt a tourist will use the new section if it goes ahead, that is encouraging should it happen. Still doesnt say I or many others want it though. I've had my moan now so shall just quietly sit back and watch that completion date slip and costs go up asthey employ some cheepscate shonky supplier all over again, although one hopes at least some lessons has been learned from the last time round.

 

[Chrism20]

I could and can come up with plenty better but its already been done to death so am not bothering. Note however my gladness that at least 1 passenger who isnt a tourist will use the new section if it goes ahead, that is encouraging should it happen. Still doesnt say I or many others want it though. I've had my moan now so shall just quietly sit back and watch that completion date slip and costs go up asthey employ some cheepscate shonky supplier all over again, although one hopes at least some lessons has been learned from the last time round.

Haha, yes I apologise if I came across as a bit abrupt. I hadn't had my morning coffee.

I'm sure there are a few other non-tourists out there. I can't be alone surely. With the amount of people I know around my who work at the Gyle I'm sure the uptake will be good and removing a few of the 22s opens up opportunities for other bus routes within the city.

I would like to think that the lessons have been learned from the original build and that the contracts are watertight this time round. After the final agreement for the original build was in place it ran reasonably well, it was the nonsense before then that caused the majority of the problems.

We live in hope that it goes reasonably smoothly. I'd prefer to see it extended and run profitably resulting in it covering the repayments itself than it stay as it is and possibly only breaking even.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I fear the uptake for the gyle etc will only come if the service is sped up a little, given the 22 drops many workers out there practically at their doors where as the tram woant. The 22 takes a lot of beating as after Lothian road as the buses can and do drive fast most of the route.

I also fear the contractual stuff woant go well given they can't even correctly employ, roster and coordinate staff to empty bins when they need doing and those staff who are doing it a demotivated. Thats a pritty basic council service and whatever the shortcomings of other councils its never something you hear about going tits up the same way as it does here.

I am firmly in the no camp for extending but hope that if it does happen it works better this time and that they act quickly enough to take advantage of every drop of funding offered to them by the outfit redeveloping St James as it will be nice to see that invested well and offering some compensation for the disruption that is about to start in earnest.