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New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

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godfreycomplex

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We don't know yet do we? They don't necessarily have to maintain route knowledge by running their own trains, as has been mentioned before, and they also wouldn't necessarily need to run via Guildford and Havant every day.

There certainly aren't daily up and down ECS services via Andover at the moment, all I can find is one up train on a Sunday.

The Laverstoke route is refreshed by cab rides on SWT services. A similar arrangement is proposed for the direct - alternatively there was some talk of an early Reading - Bournemouth service; the empties for which could well come up via the direct.
Rumours of XC dropping the Direct diversion have persisted since the end of passenger services - but several major snags at Basingstoke seem to have kicked that proposal into the long grass.
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

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I wonder if they're going to use the voice of Faye Dicker like on GWR - (she's got a ridiculously cringey voice, but I like her announcements because they're funny and much better than those original Anne ones). Then again I hope they don't get rid of Celia Drummond. She's the best.

Anne - awful
Rodger - even more awful and a little creepy too...
Phil - really, really boring
Julie - boring
London Victoria/Gatwick Airport announcer - weird sounding
 
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Wookiee

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Surely though that empty run will still happen in/around the same path for diversion reasons? I know Laverstock is quicker/easier though.

Laverstock doesn't help if it's the Reading to Basingstoke line that's out of action.
 

infobleep

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That Newcastle XC arrival should finish this year.
That's a shame as I found it nice to have a direct train to Guildford. I didn't catch it often mind you but it was nice when I did. Same goes for the morning the one.

I digress.

Does anyone think there would be enough patronage for them to stop an additional train in Godalming, heading towards Waterloo in the evening? Currently it's one an hour from 20.29 onwards. I doubt it could stretch to Farncombe too, although saying that between 19.00 and 20.00, three trains stop at Farncombe heading north. 19.14, 19.28 and 19.56. After that it's 20.32, 21.32 etc.

I assume the reason for a 19.14 and 19.28 is due to commuters returning from Portsmouth.
 

Class 170101

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It should be noted that some trains at Waterloo appear to have no platforms designated to them in Real Time Trains for the summer blockade.
 

swt_passenger

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It should be noted that some trains at Waterloo appear to have no platforms designated to them in Real Time Trains for the summer blockade.

I wondered if that was possibly some sort of software glitch because they were not yet functional. They are all trains you'd expect to be in the former international platforms, it isn't random, IYSWIM...
 

infobleep

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Interestingly. Between 7am and 8am and 8am and 9am, there are 8 trains between Surbiton and Clapham Junction each hour. That matches the usual off peak frequency. In addition to that one can save 1 minute once an hour by changing at Wimbledon. I love National Rail Enquiries, where a minute quicker service is shown. I guess every minute counts to some people! Wimbledon also have 8 an hour from Surbiton.

That frequency is better than what exists when there isn't such large scale engineering works! I wonder what passengers will think of the increase and then the decrease once the works are completed?

I understand why only 4 trains hour run during the usual morning peak but I'm sure passengers who notice the increase won't all appreciate why it must decrease again once the work are completed.

Obviously some other lines have no services but it seems some places at least, they will get an enhanced peak time to some stations compared to normal.

It is in testing because during the morning high peak, fast trains appear to still all be skipping Clapham Junction, so a fair number of trains must still be going through the fast lines to Waterloo.

Actually Woking is getting two trains an hour stopping Clapham Junction. These are semi fast so perhaps they are using the fast line.

Now Woking is going to get 4 trains a hour that stop at Wimbledon and Clapham Junction. Two semi fast and two slow. Currently it gets nothing. Again if passengers notice this, they may not understand why after the works, Woking will get nothing to those stations once more.

I know people who catch a train just after 7am in the morning, in order to get the last rating to Clapham Junction. They have a slightly longer lie in, if they so wish.

So I think the timetable looks good but I've only looked at some of the lines I've use from time to time in the past.
 
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Kite159

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According to today's South Today, the RMT have written a letter to First/MTR demanding no DOO, no change to operations & no ticket office closures/reduction of hours for the entire franchise.

Nice to see the RMT living in the past, wheres it is nice for all little village stations to have ticket offices open long periods of time, but in the modern age where tickets are purchased online you will find said ticket offices being rather quiet outside peaks.
 

swt_passenger

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What do they mean by no changes to operations?

How does that fit in with additional services, changes to calling patterns, higher frequencies, new trains, etc etc?

First have already restated no DOO a few times.
 

Pumbaa

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Is that basically because in the final 24 platform station 1-6 will all be used by inner suburban services all day; I think it has been pointed out that the new S&C requires more platforms for the same throughput of trains.



Hence the normal usage by main fast services moves over to the right a bit as viewed from the concourse; and a 12.450 or 10.444 (or even 10.158/9) should not normally ever need to use P1-P6?



I'm sure I once saw a list in a rail mag, and I think it suggested main fast EMUs would use an expanded platform group, possibly something like P8-P18.



As a supplementary question, will the final platforming plan allow for more DMU services to run as 9 or 10 car?



Pretty much. Off peak, mainline will still use p6 and there will be more split and join.

Main limit on longer 159 trains is lack of stock. Not sure there are any specific plans to lengthen existing trains.
 

swt_passenger

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Pretty much. Off peak, mainline will still use p6 and there will be more split and join.

Main limit on longer 159 trains is lack of stock. Not sure there are any specific plans to lengthen existing trains.

Shouldn't the internal 450 cascades eventually recover a few units, for example the Lymington one and the few remaining Hampshire local DMUs? Although presumably you'd still need two 158s to run a specific train as 10 car if it was already a 9 car. But then there might be a 6 car that could run as 8 I suppose.

I suppose it's just fine tuning in terms of the overall picture though...
 

3141

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What do they mean by no changes to operations?

How does that fit in with additional services, changes to calling patterns, higher frequencies, new trains, etc etc?

First have already restated no DOO a few times.

I would say they realise there will be changes as a result of additional calling patterns and all the other things, but they intend to try to get additional payments, more overtime, changes to shift patterns which would require the employment of more staff, and things of that kind. Which would mean "changes to operations", but on their terms.
 

HarleyDavidson

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Interestingly. Between 7am and 8am and 8am and 9am, there are 8 trains between Surbiton and Clapham Junction each hour. That matches the usual off peak frequency. In addition to that one can save 1 minute once an hour by changing at Wimbledon. I love National Rail Enquiries, where a minute quicker service is shown. I guess every minute counts to some people! Wimbledon also have 8 an hour from Surbiton.

That frequency is better than what exists when there isn't such large scale engineering works! I wonder what passengers will think of the increase and then the decrease once the works are completed?

I understand why only 4 trains hour run during the usual morning peak but I'm sure passengers who notice the increase won't all appreciate why it must decrease again once the work are completed.

Obviously some other lines have no services but it seems some places at least, they will get an enhanced peak time to some stations compared to normal.

It is in testing because during the morning high peak, fast trains appear to still all be skipping Clapham Junction, so a fair number of trains must still be going through the fast lines to Waterloo.

Actually Woking is getting two trains an hour stopping Clapham Junction. These are semi fast so perhaps they are using the fast line.

Now Woking is going to get 4 trains a hour that stop at Wimbledon and Clapham Junction. Two semi fast and two slow. Currently it gets nothing. Again if passengers notice this, they may not understand why after the works, Woking will get nothing to those stations once more.

I know people who catch a train just after 7am in the morning, in order to get the last rating to Clapham Junction. They have a slightly longer lie in, if they so wish.

So I think the timetable looks good but I've only looked at some of the lines I've use from time to time in the past.

I'd like to know how they're going to achieve the Wimbledon stop without fouling up, the UMF/DMF and it would make a mockery of having all of the anti suicide fences installed.

They tried it in the past with the 1Txx services and it constantly fouled up the following Weymouth service, I can't remember what one it used to foul up on the down, but either way it didn't work without causing delays.
 

swt_passenger

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I'd like to know how they're going to achieve the Wimbledon stop without fouling up, the UMF/DMF and it would make a mockery of having all of the anti suicide fences installed..

Although this is the 'new franchise thread' the post by infobleep is IMHO confusing matters completely by introducing a question about the temporary timetable during the Waterloo blockade reduced service.

There's no evidence in RTT of any calls on platforms 6 and 7 at Wimbledon, all these odd calls are on the slows.

It would clearly be impossible to stop at Wimbledon with the full normal timetable for all the usual reasons, but I think they've thinned out the mainlines pretty comprehensively during mid August...
 
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HarleyDavidson

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Although this is the 'new franchise thread' the post by infobleep is IMHO confusing matters completely by introducing a question about the temporary timetable during the Waterloo blockade reduced service.

There's no evidence in RTT of any calls on platforms 6 and 7 at Wimbledon, all these odd calls are on the slows.

It would clearly be impossible to stop at Wimbledon with the full normal timetable for all the usual reasons, but I think they've thinned out the mainlines pretty comprehensively during mid August...

So infobleep was on about during the blockade period and NOT during the normal timetable period?

Because as I stated it wouldn't work, we already experience congestion now and in fact on a Sunday an up Weymouth has to wait outside Wimbledon for a Basing/Alton to start away from the UMF platform.
 

infobleep

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I'd like to know how they're going to achieve the Wimbledon stop without fouling up, the UMF/DMF and it would make a mockery of having all of the anti suicide fences installed.

They tried it in the past with the 1Txx services and it constantly fouled up the following Weymouth service, I can't remember what one it used to foul up on the down, but either way it didn't work without causing delays.
Well they do it during Wimbledon Tennis and in fact I once made use of it for a faster journey, as I didn't need to get a stopping service. I'd come off the district line and was heading that day to Guildford.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk
 

infobleep

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Although this is the 'new franchise thread' the post by infobleep is IMHO confusing matters completely by introducing a question about the temporary timetable during the Waterloo blockade reduced service.

There's no evidence in RTT of any calls on platforms 6 and 7 at Wimbledon, all these odd calls are on the slows.

It would clearly be impossible to stop at Wimbledon with the full normal timetable for all the usual reasons, but I think they've thinned out the mainlines pretty comprehensively during mid August...
I may have meant to put in the Waterloo engineering works thread and added it here by mistake. Either way, the new franchise is due to start during the works.

Edit: Yes I posted it in the wrong thread by mistake. My apologies.
 
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BR67

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Any estimate on when the winner of the tender for the new stock will be announced?

Today! Bombardier Aventra.

http://www.firstgroupplc.com/news-and-media/latest-news/2017/20-06-17.aspx
Much needed extra seats for suburban rail services into London Waterloo moved a step closer today as new South Western franchise operators FirstGroup and MTR signed an order for 90 new trains (750 new carriages, in five and 10 car formations).
The £895m fleet of “AVENTRA” trains, providing a 46% increase in peak capacity on the suburban routes into Waterloo, will be manufactured by Bombardier Transportation in Derby. The new trains will enhance the travelling experience for customers...
 
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Feathers44

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I'm still not sure what I really think of this. I have an almost sentimental attachment to the 455s in their many guises over the years and see a number of years use left in them. However, I recognise that this sounds more like the love of a heritage line than an active railway. It's undeniable, though, that having sat in one for half an hour on platform 3 at Woking on Saturday, slowly melting while they got to grips with whatever particular hold-up was going on at 17:30, the attraction of a new and air-conditioned train is particularly strong right now.
 

nlogax

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I have an almost sentimental attachment to the 455s in their many guises over the years and see a number of years use left in them. However, I recognise that this sounds more like the love of a heritage line than an active railway.

Same. They've always 'been' the suburban lines into Waterloo for me right from the blue/grey years when they were shiny and new, replacing SUBs on my local routes. SWT have done a great job with these workhorses but time moves on as do passenger expectations for decent temperature control in all weathers. Seems to me that even the 450s are struggling to cool at the moment.
 

swt_passenger

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The 442's will probably be maintained at Bournemouth.
Also 707's are now cleared for this depot on the line as far as Branksome.

There's no reason why the new suburban fleet cannot continue having heavy maintenance at Bournemouth anyway, when it becomes due, as it will be TOC staff maintained.

But the recent 455 overhauls at Bournemouth and retraction at Eastleigh are not a continuous process, once they are finished there would have been a lull in Bournemouth's workload anyway.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Apart from maybe the 158/159 fleet, does all the heavy maintenance get done on all classes at Bournemouth or is it split between Bournemouth and other depots?
 

Matt Taylor

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I've been told by a contact that an announcement will be made today regarding the preferred manufacturer for the replacement of the BR EMU stock for this franchise. Usual caveats apply.
 

Suraggu

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I've been told by a contact that an announcement will be made today regarding the preferred manufacturer for the replacement of the BR EMU stock for this franchise. Usual caveats apply.

Matt, keep up at the back. Bombardier were announced as winning the contract at around 08:00 this morning.
 
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