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Five Class 319/769s for the Welsh Network

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Dai Corner

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It appears we are going to get five Cl319 Flex electro-diesels, and further unspecified stock

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-electro-diesel-multiple-units-for-wales.html



UK: The Welsh Government is to provide £1·9m and operator Arriva Trains Wales £1m to lease five Class 319 Flex electro-diesel multiple-units for use on the Wales & Borders franchise from 2018 until at least 2021.

First announced by Porterbrook Leasing and Northern franchise operator Arriva in December 2016, the Class 319 Flex concept is based on fitting diesel alternator powerpacks to the driving cars of four-car dual-system EMUs made surplus by the delivery of Siemens Class 700 EMUs for the Thameslink route.

The five units for the Wales & Borders franchise have not been allocated to specific routes, but will allow Class 150 and 158 DMUs to be taken out of service to be modified to comply with Persons of Reduced Mobility requirements. They would also provide opportunities for the next Wales & Borders franchisee to increase overall capacity.

'I have made no secret of the difficulty in adding good quality rolling stock in Wales and am delighted that, by working with Arriva Trains Wales and others, we’ve been able to secure these extra trains’, said Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure Ken Skates. ‘The agreement to secure these trains is one part of a number of agreements with rail industry bodies that ensure that the majority of the current Wales & Borders fleet will comply with Persons of Reduced Mobility regulations by January 1 2020.'
 
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Gareth Marston

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Accurate reporting from Railway Gazette unlike ITV

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2017-...-wales-most-crowded-services-to-be-announced/

Extra train carriages for Wales' most crowded services will be announced today by the Welsh Government.

Economy and Infrastructure Secretary Ken Skates says the addition of 20 new train coaches will boost and improve rolling stock.

The trains have been funded by the Welsh Government with £1million of support from Arriva Trains Wales, and will be added to existing rolling stock in 2018.

Their introduction of five extra four-carriage trains will provide options for increasing capacity on busy routes. The extra trains will also provide opportunities for the new franchisee to deliver improvements early in the new Wales and Borders rail services contract.


Slightly better from the South Wales Argus
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/15413850.Five_new_trains_will_be_on_lines_in_Wales_in_2018/

at least they acknowledge there for PPM mods.

A SET of five brand new trains will be on the rails in Wales next year thanks to a £2.9 million investment by the Welsh Government and a rail firm.

The new 319 flex bi-mode trains, which will have four carriages each, are to be introduced following a £1.9 million investment by the Welsh Government and £1 million from Arriva Trains Wales.

The new trains will be introduced next year and will allow for work to be made to existing vehicles to make them compliant with disability legislation.
 
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Extra capacity for the Wales and Borders franchise from next year it seems...

Twenty new train coaches coming to Wales for most crowded services

Twenty additional train coaches will arrive in Wales next year to provide relief at last for passengers on the most crowded services.

The five 'Flex' trains, each comprising four coaches, have been displaced from the Thameslink route in London by new trains.


They are electric trains but will be fitted with diesel engines for use in Wales, where no railways have been electrified yet.

The extra capacity will also help to avert a crisis which was looming because most of Wales’ existing trains cannot continue in service beyond 2019 without being modified to meet accessibility rules.

The trains will be leased following an initial £1.9m investment by the Welsh Government and £1m from Arriva Trains Wales, which will operate the trains for less than a year before its franchise ends in October 2018.

Economy and infrastructure secretary Ken Skates said: “I’ve made no secret of the difficulty in adding good quality rolling stock in Wales and am delighted that, by working with Arriva Trains Wales and others, we’ve been able to secure these extra trains.

“The agreement to secure these trains is one part of a number of agreements with rail industry bodies that ensure that the majority of the current Wales and Borders fleet will comply with Persons of Restricted Mobility regulations by January 1, 2020.

“The extra trains will be available for the new franchisee to use until at least 2021.”

Simon Hughes, ATW’s fleet director, said: “These additional trains will be a massive boost for our customers who have been calling for extra capacity for a long time.

“We are delighted to be investing alongside the Welsh Government to secure this additional rolling stock within our current franchise period.”

He said each train would replace a pair of Sprinter or Pacer trains, probably on the Valley Lines.

Most of the displaced trains would be available to boost capacity on other services, including possibly in areas such as North or Mid Wales.

“We will target the busiest lines at peak times,” said Mr Hughes.

A few of the displaced Sprinters at a time will go to workshops for modifications so that they meet the accessibility rules by 2020.

Countering industry rumours that Flex trains could be under-powered when fuelled by diesel, he said tests had indicated that they would be just as fast as the current Sprinter trains in the Valleys.

The trains are called Flex because they will be able to run on non-electrified lines and on lines where electricity is supplied via overhead cable or via a rail alongside the track.

The trains are only slightly younger than ATW’s Sprinters, but Mr Hughes said they had been refurbished to comply with the Persons of Restricted Mobility regulations.

“I’m hoping the public reaction to them is going to be positive,” he added.

Each Flex train will have 300 seats, compared with about 204 to 260 where two Sprinters or Pacers are coupled together as four-coach trains.

The former Thameslink trains have three seats on one side of the aisle, two on the other, and no space is wasted in the middle of the train – where pairs of Sprinters or Pacers have out-of-use driving cabs.

Flex trains are likely to be used first in the north of England, where Arriva’s Northern franchise has helped owner Porterbrook to develop the concept.

The ones destined for Wales will retain all of their electrical equipment.

In theory they could provide a much-needed direct link to Liverpool from Wrexham and Flintshire – where just 1% of commuters travel by train.

ATW’s trains from Wrexham have to terminate at Bidston, on the Wirral, because they are powered by diesel and therefore not allowed in the tunnels under the Mersey and Liverpool. However, it is not currently clear whether electric trains carrying diesel would be allowed in the tunnels.

On the Cardiff to Cheltenham route, Flex trains would be able to operate on electricity as far as Severn Tunnel Junction once the main line between London and Cardiff has been electrified.

Source: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/twenty-new-train-coaches-coming-13338737

Edit: it's 5 x 4-car trains, the heading I've used is not accurate, appologies.
 
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pemma

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Title should say ATW to take on 5 x 769s. The bi-mode 319s will be 769s and it's 20 carriages not 20 trains.
 
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Townsend Hook

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Slightly off topic, but as to 'whether electric trains carrying diesel would be allowed in the tunnels' GBRf 73/9s are down there every four weeks or so on PLPR trains.
 

Gareth Marston

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Confusion and Speculation down at the Western Mail

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/twenty-new-train-coaches-coming-13338737

Twenty additional train coaches will arrive in Wales next year to provide relief at last for passengers on the most crowded services.

The five 'Flex' trains, each comprising four coaches, have been displaced from the Thameslink route in London by new trains.

They are electric trains but will be fitted with diesel engines for use in Wales, where no railways have been electrified yet.

The extra capacity will also help to avert a crisis which was looming because most of Wales’ existing trains cannot continue in service beyond 2019 without being modified to meet accessibility rules.

In theory they could provide a much-needed direct link to Liverpool from Wrexham and Flintshire – where just 1% of commuters travel by train.

ATW’s trains from Wrexham have to terminate at Bidston, on the Wirral, because they are powered by diesel and therefore not allowed in the tunnels under the Mersey and Liverpool. However, it is not currently clear whether electric trains carrying diesel would be allowed in the tunnels.
 

pemma

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Great to see hand-me-down unproven stock being deployed in South Wales :(

If they are unreliable ATW will find out prior to taking delivery when Northern's units cause chaos by blocking the WCML or block the cross-Manchester line.
 

Camden

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Don't think they can get through the Mersey tunnels without the flat roof and having a pantograph on top, but if they can one issue I would identify is timekeeping.

Locals wouldn't be impressed if Merseyrail trains have to be cancelled entirely or at intermediate stations to get the system back running to time (standard practice) to make up for a late arriving interloper!

Perhaps more likely to be used on the new Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn service? Pan up/down at Runcorn?
 

pemma

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Perhaps more likely to be used on the new Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn service? Pan up/down at Runcorn?

That would seem a sensible plan considering:
1. The business plan was based on using 4 car 150s or equivalent but given the lack of available 150s, a bi-mode 769 is an equivalent.
2. The Allerton facility could be used for any maintenance.
3. Unlike other routes there are overheads which can be used for part of the journey.
 

pemma

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As 319s maybe, as 769s they're unproven and untested (yet).

More accurately proven as successful trains for Thameslink. The reliability on Northern and LM routes is still way below the reliability of 323s and more on a par with Sprinters. Yet one of the selling points of electric trains is they are more reliable than diesel trains.
 
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On further reading it seems that when these appear next year ATW will remove some of their existing stock to make them DDA compliment.

Obviously no news on the date that the five units will appear in Wales (they might come at once or they might come one at a time) but if units are then removed from the network for a period of time it could easily be January 2019 before there is any noticeable increase.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Good news all round.
I expect the 5x769s will be based at Allerton with the rest of them, and will work the Liverpool-Chester service and other services through Chester.
Say the Crewe and Bidston shuttles, and maybe a couple of Manchester Airport diagrams.
ATW can then cascade onwards.
I doubt they will appear in South Wales.
Arriva will want to keep 769s on a short rein until their performance is proved.
It's also an "Arriva" solution, with shared services between Northern and ATW.
Presumably DfT and WG agreed the funding to get the PRM job on the road.
I should think Porterbrook would be happy too.
For once the industry is getting it right.
 

pemma

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Good news all round.
I expect the 5x769s will be based at Allerton with the rest of them, and will work the Liverpool-Chester service and other services through Chester.
Say the Crewe and Bidston shuttles, and maybe a couple of Manchester Airport diagrams.
ATW can then cascade onwards.

Bidston service don't actually go through Chester and the total number required for Liverpool-Chester, Chester-Crewe and Bidston-Wrexham would be 5 units so that would require them all with no maintenance/spare and certainly nothing left over to work a couple of Manchester Airport diagrams.
 

mwmbwls

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That would seem a sensible plan considering:
1. The business plan was based on using 4 car 150s or equivalent but given the lack of available 150s, a bi-mode 769 is an equivalent.
2. The Allerton facility could be used for any maintenance.
3. Unlike other routes there are overheads which can be used for part of the journey.

Have any 25kV wires been commissioned in Wales yet? What are the proposed commissioning dates? Is it now envisaged that work about to start on the Halton Curve will include preliminaries for electrification?
Is the link going to be wired in whole or in part from inception?

With Merseytravel gearing up for an all Stadler fleet I cannot see them welcoming 769's on their Metro network - disrupting the level train/platform programme.

Where do ATW run four car 150/158 sets now?
 

gareth950

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So this is being hailed by some news outlets as an increase in capacity for W&B, yet these 5 extra trains will be used essentially as cover whilst presumably the equivalent number of 158s and/or 150/2s are away for mods. So no increase in capacity overall then.

Note also that the article says at the end that this is expected to allow the 'majority' of the W&B fleet to be compliant by 2020.
Presumably this means Pacers are going by 31/12/2019.
 
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Have any 25kV wires been commissioned in Wales yet? What are the proposed commissioning dates? Is it now envisaged that work about to start on the Halton Curve will include preliminaries for electrification?
Is the link going to be wired in whole or in part from inception?

With Merseytravel gearing up for an all Stadler fleet I cannot see them welcoming 769's on their Metro network - disrupting the level train/platform programme.

Where do ATW run four car 150/158 sets now?

I traveled on a four car 158 yesterday from Hollyhead to Shrewsbury.

4 car 158s are often used on the Cambrian line and most peak time trains to/from Ebbw Vale are four cars made up of 150 and/or 158.
 

PHILIPE

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Good news all round.
I expect the 5x769s will be based at Allerton with the rest of them, and will work the Liverpool-Chester service and other services through Chester.
Say the Crewe and Bidston shuttles, and maybe a couple of Manchester Airport diagrams.
ATW can then cascade onwards.
I doubt they will appear in South Wales.
Arriva will want to keep 769s on a short rein until their performance is proved.
It's also an "Arriva" solution, with shared services between Northern and ATW.
Presumably DfT and WG agreed the funding to get the PRM job on the road.
I should think Porterbrook would be happy too.
For once the industry is getting it right.

A 4 Car unit would be wasted on most of these in the north.
 
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