SNCF Loco hauled

[Gordon]

I suspect SBB's issue was with the number of times the trains were late into Basel from France. They used to fit into the IR regular interval service through to Zürich, so every time they were late SBB had to kick out an "ersatzzug" to maintain the timetable.

However, the same issue applies on average at least a few times a week when TGVs and ICEs are late into Basel


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[duesselmartin]

If the train had its end / beginning in Basel SNCF, it should not be problematic.

 

[Gordon]

If the train had its end / beginning in Basel SNCF, it should not be problematic.

Agreed.

What should still exist is a regular-ish interval service of 200km/h Basel SNCF - Strasbourg - Metz - Luxembourg , but that needs too much financial propping up and joined up thinking which seldom occurs in western Europe these days if the service is not 'high speed'.

The other big problem is that SNCF LGVs are limited to TGV trains, so that a brisk loco hauled train can not take advantage of a bit of high speed line where suitable, as happens on the German neubaustrecken.

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[MarcVD]

There are a few TGV connections per day between Luxembourg and Strasbourg. Why they are not extended all the way to Basel is beyond me...

Envoyé de mon GT-I9505 en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[Please Explain]

If the train had its end / beginning in Basel SNCF, it should not be problematic.

I think he was referring to several years ago when the Iris ran on to Zürich Hbf and Chur. Going waaaaay back Le Vauban continued all the way to Milano Centrale and was also briefly diverted to Interlaken Ost for the summer season of 2007 before both were cut back to terminate at der Französischer Bahnhof in Basel, before of course being axed altogether last year. So both trains were really in a state of decline for a number of years before sadly..

 

[Please Explain]

Agreed.

What should still exist is a regular-ish interval service of 200km/h Basel SNCF - Strasbourg - Metz - Luxembourg , but that needs too much financial propping up and joined up thinking which seldom occurs in western Europe these days if the service is not 'high speed'.

The other big problem is that SNCF LGVs are limited to TGV trains, so that a brisk loco hauled train can not take advantage of a bit of high speed line where suitable, as happens on the German neubaustrecken.

.

Couldn't agree more Gordon. They should never have cut that TER200 that ran to Luxembourg and back. I have no idea why they did. Ideally the two TER200's that now run in the paths of the EC's should be extended to/from Luxembourg to provide two direct Bâle-Luxembourg trains per day at 13h21 and 16h21 as before. They would also connect with the Belgian IC's to/from Brussel as well! At present, one has to change in Strasbourg and Metz and in my case a couple of months ago, Sarrebourg, and Thionville due to SNCF strikes!
Unless you fit your travel plans around the TGV of course which requires additional €€€...

-On a separate note, any news on the Line 4 CC72100's and Boulogne Sur Mer BB67400's? I quite fancy another Franco diesel jaunt soon if its still not too late!

 

[Please Explain]

There are a few TGV connections per day between Luxembourg and Strasbourg. Why they are not extended all the way to Basel is beyond me...

Envoyé de mon GT-I9505 en utilisant Tapatalk

Thanks for that Marc. I thought there was now only one direct connection in each direction between Luxembourg and Strasbourg but it would appear there is now in fact two per day with the TGV to/from Montpellier as well.
The times are not so good though in the early/late mornings going south and early/late evening going north so the EC's were far better not just for through journeys to Bâle but Luxembourg-Strasburg pax too.

The current connections are as follows:

http://www.beluxtrains.net/indexfr.php?page=searchluxcategories

TGV 9877 07h23 Luxembourg - Marseille-Saint-Charles 15h12
TGV 9879 11h24 Luxembourg - Montpellier Saint-Roch 19h02
TGV 9896 10h00 Montpellier Saint-Roch - Luxembourg 17h35
TGV 9898 16h04 Marseille-Saint-Charles - Luxembourg 23h51

Do you propose routing these TGV's into Bâle (SNCF) to reverse in order to reinstate the lost direction connections?

 

[Gordon]

-On a separate note, any news on the Line 4 CC72100's and Boulogne Sur Mer BB67400's? I quite fancy another Franco diesel jaunt soon if its still not too late!

Both still running, but the Boulogne services are constantly mucked about by engineering works (ie pre-emptive work on the electrifcation of Rang - Amiens

72100 down to two out and back per day.


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[Please Explain]

Both still running, but the Boulogne services are constantly mucked about by engineering works (ie pre-emptive work on the electrifcation of Rang - Amiens

72100 down to two out and back per day.


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Merci Gordon.

I seen from SNCF society news that the CC72100's are expected to be replaced by December but possibly earlier depending on unit deliveries, but do we have a teamscale on the Boulogne yet?

Thanks again.

 

[Redonian]

An update on loco hauled trains at Nantes.
The Nantes - Bordeaux trains remain loco hauled although now down to 3 each way on weekdays. 67443 and 67542 were working the trains yesterday. Only 5 coaches which looked somewhat down at heel
The Inter Loire trains are also loco hauled. These are TER trains but branded in The timetable as Inter Loire. Again 5 coaches but they also have a cycle coach which is one of the selling points for these trains which might mean they stay loco hauled. Again only 3 trains a day each way Nantes - Orleans. Sybic 26029 was on the arrival from Orleans that I saw. This train goes on to St Nazaire. It arrived late and departed very late. Indeed whenever I have seen these trains or ridden them timekeeping has been hopeless.

 

[317666]

I've just returned from Paris, and noticed that there still seems to be one or two BB17000s knocking around on the Transilien J on double deckers. I presume that they just stand in as and when for unavailable BB27300s? Sadly I didn't end up behind one, although I was at Saint-Lazare for the Z6400s instead

I did do the 17:05 off of Est, which I'd highly recommend if you're looking for an easy way to get a BB67400. As peak trains go it wasn't too busy at all, and almost everybody got off at Meaux meaning I had the front coach to myself the rest of the way to Crouy-sur-Ourcq where I alighted

 

[CC 72100]

I've just returned from Paris, and noticed that there still seems to be one or two BB17000s knocking around on the Transilien J on double deckers. I presume that they just stand in as and when for unavailable BB27300s? Sadly I didn't end up behind one, although I was at Saint-Lazare for the Z6400s instead

I did do the 17:05 off of Est, which I'd highly recommend if you're looking for an easy way to get a BB67400. As peak trains go it wasn't too busy at all, and almost everybody got off at Meaux meaning I had the front coach to myself the rest of the way to Crouy-sur-Ourcq where I alighted

The classic Crouy-sur-Ourcq move!

There is a probably a move whereby you do the unit back to one of the stations between Crouy-sur-Ourcq and Meaux (maybe Lizy-sur-Ourcq) and do the 18:05 behind - never did it myself though.

Did you see whether the 17:12 to Troyes was hauled or not? I'm guessing that it's now a unit.

 

[CC 72100]

An update on loco hauled trains at Nantes.
The Nantes - Bordeaux trains remain loco hauled although now down to 3 each way on weekdays. 67443 and 67542 were working the trains yesterday. Only 5 coaches which looked somewhat down at heel

Do you know which trains are hauled - thinking of a trip to that part of the world?

Thanks

 

[317666]

The classic Crouy-sur-Ourcq move!

There is a probably a move whereby you do the unit back to one of the stations between Crouy-sur-Ourcq and Meaux (maybe Lizy-sur-Ourcq) and do the 18:05 behind - never did it myself though.

Did you see whether the 17:12 to Troyes was hauled or not? I'm guessing that it's now a unit.

I'm pretty sure it is possible to drop back onto the 18:05 that way, although I went for a stroll into the village and got the unit behind back down instead!

I didn't explicitly see the 17:12 Troyes, although as I was on the 17:05 waiting to leave a rake of Corails topped and tailed by CC72100s did come into the station empty (at roughly 16:50), so I'd hazard a guess that that was it?

 

[CC 72100]

I'm pretty sure it is possible to drop back onto the 18:05 that way, although I went for a stroll into the village and got the unit behind back down instead!

I didn't explicitly see the 17:12 Troyes, although as I was on the 17:05 waiting to leave a rake of Corails topped and tailed by CC72100s did come into the station empty (at roughly 16:50), so I'd hazard a guess that that was it?

Interesting... that or the 18:42 I presume.

I'm over in Paris in a couple of weeks time, not on a bashing trip as with family but I've already boxed one evening off.. fingers crossed the 17:12 is hauled, can do the leap to Longueville that way. That said, would happily for the 17:05/18:05 if its not.

 

[Redonian]

Do you know which trains are hauled - thinking of a trip to that part of the world?

Thanks

The timetable is changing as from 2nd July but the trains are still listed as Inter Cities and so I presume they will continue to be loco hauled.
The new times (every day inc Sunday) :
Nantes dep 08:25 Bordeaux arr 13:14 Nantes dep 12:25 Bordeaux arr 17:14,
Nantes Dep 16:25 Bordeaux Arr 21:14
Bordeaux dep 07:47 Nantes arr 12:32, Bordeaux dep 11:47 Nantes arr 16:32, Bordeaux Dep 16:47 Nantes Arr 21:32

 

[Gordon]

The timetable is changing as from 2nd July but the trains are still listed as Inter Cities and so I presume they will continue to be loco hauled.
The new times (every day inc Sunday) :
Nantes dep 08:25 Bordeaux arr 13:14 Nantes dep 12:25 Bordeaux arr 17:14,
Nantes Dep 16:25 Bordeaux Arr 21:14
Bordeaux dep 07:47 Nantes arr 12:32, Bordeaux dep 11:47 Nantes arr 16:32, Bordeaux Dep 16:47 Nantes Arr 21:32

Do the short workings cease in mid summer?

 

[Redonian]

Do the short workings cease in mid summer?

If by short workings you mean the length of the trains then yes, come the summer timetable they have pretty much doubled in length and been double headed. There are enough Corail coaches presently in the carriage sidings at Nantes to achieve this again this year.

 

[CC 72100]

That's super, thanks Redonian

 

[30907]

If by short workings you mean the length of the trains then yes, come the summer timetable they have pretty much doubled in length and been double headed. There are enough Corail coaches presently in the carriage sidings at Nantes to achieve this again this year.

Having recovered from the shock of seeing a Taktfahrplan on a long distance route, I assumed Gordon meant short distance, ie the morning La Rochelle-Bordeaux and evening return 13889/3888 which I presume are LH.

 

[Gordon]

Having recovered from the shock of seeing a Taktfahrplan on a long distance route, I assumed Gordon meant short distance, ie the morning La Rochelle-Bordeaux and evening return 13889/3888 which I presume are LH.

Yes, that's indeed what I meant.

As trains like that are 'commuter' orientated, I wondered if they might succumb to unit working in the summer holidays


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[Redonian]

Yes, that's indeed what I meant.

As trains like that are 'commuter' orientated, I wondered if they might succumb to unit working in the summer holidays


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Sorry for the misunderstanding. My knowledge is only at the Nantes end. I see that there are 4 Inter Cities La Rochelle - Bordeaux in the timetable from 2nd July but do not know if they will be loco hauled. The early train has a 1 in front of the usual 4 digit train number whereas the others do not. That may suggest a unit but it's only a guess.

 

[Gordon]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. My knowledge is only at the Nantes end. I see that there are 4 Inter Cities La Rochelle - Bordeaux in the timetable from 2nd July but do not know if they will be loco hauled. The early train has a 1 in front of the usual 4 digit train number whereas the others do not. That may suggest a unit but it's only a guess.

The trains always have a 1 in front I so don't think that's a clue, and there's no suggestion that the timing is modified including at the end of mid summer, so maybe they stay loco hauled (La Rochelle - Bordeaux is still quite a long way)

 

[Redonian]

The trains always have a 1 in front I so don't think that's a clue, and there's no suggestion that the timing is modified including at the end of mid summer, so maybe they stay loco hauled (La Rochelle - Bordeaux is still quite a long way)

Having had a closer look at the timetable the only Inter Cities that starts at La Rochelle for Bordeaux is 13899 at 05:56. The return working is 13898 ex Bordeaux 18:39. The other Inter Cities trains between these places are the Nantes - Bordeaux trains none of which have the digit 1 e.g. 3831/33/35 ex Nantes. What the digit 1 might mean I know not but it might mean a unit. There are TER trains which travel the whole of the route La Rochelle - Bordeaux indeed one , at least, seems to go right through to Marseilles.
The other interesting thing is that Inter Cities 3856 at 16:47 from Bordeaux actually comes from Marseilles as 4756. There is no Nantes - Marseilles through train so the stock must come from a rather convoluted working involving the Bordeaux - Marseilles Inter Cities stock.
Incidentally the working from Marseilles partly revives a through train from there to Quimper that used to run up to about 10 years ago.

 

[CC 72100]

Evening,

Just to check, is the 'forfait Tribu' valid on these trains? The French TER page suggests that it is valid as far as La Rochelle, (https://www.ter.sncf.com/pays-de-la...forfait-tribu/[tab]presentationdeforfaittribu) but does not mention Intercités.

However, the page from the 'Conseil régional des Pays de la Loire' says that it is valid on all main line trains except TGV.

I was thinking of a La Rochelle - Nantes trip on the Forfait Tribu, so any info would be superb.

Thanks

I'll be in Paris at the end of the week, so will bring back any gen on 16:42/17:05/17:12/18:05 ex-Paris Est

 

[Gordon]

the 'all except TGV' phrase seems to be clear, but then this is France...what's the betting some grippers will think one thing and some the opposite! (I can remeber in the 1980s when a rural SNCF guard didn't even know what my 'SNCF France Vacances' all line rover was!)

Doesn't help that there are Forfait Tribu all over France including an SNCF multi deal and one for a ski lift in the Alps!


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[Redonian]

Two years ago three of us used a Pays de Loire Forfait Tribu on an Inter cities train with no problem. I agree that the terms and conditions completely ignore such trains so it could be hit and miss. I find that the SNCF ticket office staff are helpful even with my limited French so it might be wise to ask.

 

[CC 72100]

Cheers Gordon and Redonian... think I'll be printing out the relevant pages in advance then!

 

[CC 72100]

17:05 and 18:05 still hauled - 67406 (dud) on Friday's 17:05, loco in traditional blue (identity unknown, could be 515 or 522?) on the 18:05.

17:12 to Troyes was a pair of units, looked like the 18:12 Belfort was hauled with 72100s.

With it being July the 17:05 was rather quiet and the front coach was 25% full until Meaux... where everyone alighted and we had the coach to ourselves until we got off at Crouy-sur-Ourcq. Windows down throughout the whole trip on a hot day - perfect. Upon departure from Crouy the train had a grand total of 4 passengers on it!

 

[Fred43123]

17:05 and 18:05 still hauled - 67406 (dud) on Friday's 17:05, loco in traditional blue (identity unknown, could be 515 or 522?) on the 18:05.

17:12 to Troyes was a pair of units, looked like the 18:12 Belfort was hauled with 72100s.

With it being July the 17:05 was rather quiet and the front coach was 25% full until Meaux... where everyone alighted and we had the coach to ourselves until we got off at Crouy-sur-Ourcq. Windows down throughout the whole trip on a hot day - perfect. Upon departure from Crouy the train had a grand total of 4 passengers on it!

Did the 17:05 on Tuesday for the first time, really enjoyed it with the window down, had 67599! The 16:42 was double headed 72100s, 72049 & 72074. Is there anymore diesel hauled Transilien services that operate out of Paris or is that the only 2?