Future use of A Stock

[NorthKent1989]

I heard rumours that the iconic train stock would have heritage weekends, I loved riding them especially if they were fast from Harrow to Finchley Road, the downhill propelling the stock into 80-85 even 90 miles per hour! Even at 60-70 they were pretty fast.

It would be a crying shame if they've all been scrapped, I wonder why Southern Region way back in the late 50s/early 60s never bought them for their outer Suburban routes?, I can see them painted in Southern Green speeding into London.

Does anyone know if there is still a unit or two waiting for heritage use?

 

[bluegoblin7]

There are two remaining A62s on the network, plus an additional car. They are nominally retained for 'Sandite'/Rail Adhesion Train purposes, but are due to be phased out by the end of the year and replaced by two repurposed D78 stock trains.

Although one of the sets was used for heritage runs in 2013, there were never any official plans for their use, and they have not been used in passenger service since. At any rate, their condition has declined over recent years (being used only for departmental purposes) and with the impending reksignalling schemes on the Met question marks exist over the compatibility of the stock with the new signalling.

Oh, and there's also a general lack of depot space in which to keep them; the current roads are required for the new Sandites.

 

[cjohnson]

At least part of them still lives on... have one of the luggage racks on the wall at home complete with brolly hook (from when the LT Museum Shop was selling them)

 

[MatthewRead]

What I want is for them to preserver that particular unit that worked the Ricky week runs in 2013 its what we enthusiasts would want and since they aren't going to run the preserved 1938 tube stock this weekend running the A stock would heavily compensate.

 

[class387]

I really don't get LU's refusal to preserve any working trains. We all know that the 1938 stock, being 80 years old, can't last forever, so what are we going do after that? It be a huge shame that no trains between 1938 and at least 1972 are available for the public to ride and that in 20 years time there may be no heritage trains at all.

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder why Southern Region way back in the late 50s/early 60s never bought them for their outer Suburban routes?, I can see them painted in Southern Green speeding into London.

Because we had HAP units and EPB's

 

[87015]

I really don't get LU's refusal to preserve any working trains. We all know that the 1938 stock, being 80 years old, can't last forever, so what are we going do after that? It be a huge shame that no trains between 1938 and at least 1972 are available for the public to ride and that in 20 years time there may be no heritage trains at all.

Because in the big picture there is no interest and the stock just becomes a liability - just look at each attempt at mainline EMU preservation? LU should surely be applauded for getting this far with keeping some bits alive - look at Sarah Siddons vs early BR electrics.

 

[class387]

Because in the big picture there is no interest and the stock just becomes a liability - just look at each attempt at mainline EMU preservation? LU should surely be applauded for getting this far with keeping some bits alive - look at Sarah Siddons vs early BR electrics.

I'm sure that, with the correct publicity, there would be a lot more interest on 'the Tube' than mainline EMUs.

 

[yorksrob]

Because in the big picture there is no interest and the stock just becomes a liability - just look at each attempt at mainline EMU preservation? LU should surely be applauded for getting this far with keeping some bits alive - look at Sarah Siddons vs early BR electrics.

BR did very well with preserving earlyish electrics (such as the 4SUB). Unfortunately that went to the wall with the privatisation fiasco.

 

[Nym]

I heard rumours that the iconic train stock would have heritage weekends, I loved riding them especially if they were fast from Harrow to Finchley Road, the downhill propelling the stock into 80-85 even 90 miles per hour! Even at 60-70 they were pretty fast.

Does anyone know if there is still a unit or two waiting for heritage use?

5110 is meant to be maintained to heritage passenger standards, indeed it was heavy overhauled when converted to permanent sandite duty so that this would be possible in the future.

There are two remaining A62s on the network, plus an additional car. They are nominally retained for 'Sandite'/Rail Adhesion Train purposes, but are due to be phased out by the end of the year and replaced by two repurposed D78 stock trains.

Both 5110 and 5234 are A60 units, not A62.

I'm sure that, with the correct publicity, there would be a lot more interest on 'the Tube' than mainline EMUs.

Really? I don't see a lot of people complaining that the 38TS is long term out of use at the moment.

In reality, it's dead.

It's very unlikely that 5234 will ever turn a wheel in anger again, other than moving to Ealing to be taken for scrap, even then it will proberbly be craned out.

6036 will go for scrap, there's not really anything of worth left on it.

5110 could be used for heritage runs, it wouldn't be that hard to convert back, but there needs to be somewhere to keep it, and someone to pay to keep it. I don't think the museum has any space.

I just seriously doubt there is any space, motivation or most importantly, money. So it will very likely be the case that 5110, along with 5234 is robbed of spares for L132/L133 and sent off to Booths...

 

[NSEFAN]

BR did very well with preserving earlyish electrics (such as the 4SUB). Unfortunately that went to the wall with the privatisation fiasco.

No room for "depot pets" in this day and age, sadly.

 

[Mikey C]

No room for "depot pets" in this day and age, sadly.

Because they need more space to run trains that actually carry passengers?

 

[yorksrob]

Because they need more space to run trains that actually carry passengers?

I doubt that physical siding space is the limiting factor, at least in the majority of cases.

 

[jopsuk]

Physical siding space is definitely the limiting factor for London Underground depots- see the need for sidings around the network that aren't just for a speedy start up. And for the mainline operators it's the same- during the darker days of BR a lot of siding space was taken out of use and has subsequently been sold off, as it was close to town and city centres.

 

[yorksrob]

Physical siding space is definitely the limiting factor for London Underground depots- see the need for sidings around the network that aren't just for a speedy start up. And for the mainline operators it's the same- during the darker days of BR a lot of siding space was taken out of use and has subsequently been sold off, as it was close to town and city centres.

The Underground managed to have room several rotting Jubilee line sets for several years.

 

[bramling]

The Underground managed to have room several rotting Jubilee line sets for several years.

Yes and, sadly, they got smashed up within hours of arriving at South Harrow, and more smashed up over time. Not only that but the final cost of removal was way more than had the trains had simply been scrapped after withdrawal.

Having said that, Hainault has kept a couple of old trains, so it can be done, but again even there they have had vandalism. Then the trains have to be maintained, which again comes down to money. It's a shame the museum depot doesn't have some secure siding space, but money again, and that still doesn't pay for maintenance. It doesn't help that LU is under a severe budget squeeze at the moment.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes and, sadly, they got smashed up within hours of arriving at South Harrow, and more smashed up over time. Not only that but the final cost of removal was way more than had the trains had simply been scrapped after withdrawal.

Having said that, Hainault has kept a couple of old trains, so it can be done, but again even there they have had vandalism. Then the trains have to be maintained, which again comes down to money. It's a shame the museum depot doesn't have some secure siding space, but money again, and that still doesn't pay for maintenance. It doesn't help that LU is under a severe budget squeeze at the moment.

But they have managed to find space for the 1930's tube set, which seems well kept.

 

[Dstock7080]

But they have managed to find space for the 1930's tube set, which seems well kept.

The 1938 Tube Stock is usually kept in the LT Museum Depot Acton.

 

[Nym]

The 1938 Tube Stock is usually kept in the LT Museum Depot Acton.

And broken...

 

[yorksrob]

I believe the 4SUB was cared for by Selhurst and Lovers Walk.

 

[jumble]

There are two remaining A62s on the network, plus an additional car. They are nominally retained for 'Sandite'/Rail Adhesion Train purposes, but are due to be phased out by the end of the year and replaced by two repurposed D78 stock trains.

Although one of the sets was used for heritage runs in 2013, there were never any official plans for their use, and they have not been used in passenger service since. At any rate, their condition has declined over recent years (being used only for departmental purposes) and with the impending reksignalling schemes on the Met question marks exist over the compatibility of the stock with the new signalling.

Oh, and there's also a general lack of depot space in which to keep them; the current roads are required for the new Sandites.

My understanding from a discussion last year with someone high up in LUL and whose statements I would tend to trust.

There is no interest in preserving and running A stock at all.
The main reason being that the 38ts has swallowed about half a million pounds in repairs etc recently and there is no spare money.
The current RATS are not maintained to passenger standard so would need work to bring them up to allow passengers to be carried.
There is a lot of asbestos underneath which was a trade mark of Cravens and means that selling on privately is out of the question


This is also backed up by the fact I understand that the 2 RATS had been actually been booked to be sent to Booths before the decision was made to keep them for another season.
The lack of depot space is in my view a complete red herring and would not be an issue if the will was there.
I imagine it is as my old boss liked to say.
" you have told me it can't be done. If I said i would give you £10,000 personally if you could find a way would you still tell me it was not possible?

It is a real shame but I think it just wont happen.
I am just happy I was on the last day of service and the only day since in 2013

Jumble

 

[MatthewRead]

My understanding from a discussion last year with someone high up in LUL and whose statements I would tend to trust.

There is no interest in preserving and running A stock at all.
The main reason being that the 38ts has swallowed about half a million pounds in repairs etc recently and there is no spare money.
The current RATS are not maintained to passenger standard so would need work to bring them up to allow passengers to be carried.
There is a lot of asbestos underneath which was a trade mark of Cravens and means that selling on privately is out of the question


This is also backed up by the fact I understand that the 2 RATS had been actually been booked to be sent to Booths before the decision was made to keep them for another season.
The lack of depot space is in my view a complete red herring and would not be an issue if the will was there.
I imagine it is as my old boss liked to say.
" you have told me it can't be done. If I said i would give you £10,000 personally if you could find a way would you still tell me it was not possible?

It is a real shame but I think it just wont happen.
I am just happy I was on the last day of service and the only day since in 2013

Jumble

NOOOOOOO I love the A stock don't scrap it :cry:

 

[class387]

My understanding from a discussion last year with someone high up in LUL and whose statements I would tend to trust.

There is no interest in preserving and running A stock at all.
The main reason being that the 38ts has swallowed about half a million pounds in repairs etc recently and there is no spare money.
The current RATS are not maintained to passenger standard so would need work to bring them up to allow passengers to be carried.
There is a lot of asbestos underneath which was a trade mark of Cravens and means that selling on privately is out of the question


This is also backed up by the fact I understand that the 2 RATS had been actually been booked to be sent to Booths before the decision was made to keep them for another season.
The lack of depot space is in my view a complete red herring and would not be an issue if the will was there.
I imagine it is as my old boss liked to say.
" you have told me it can't be done. If I said i would give you £10,000 personally if you could find a way would you still tell me it was not possible?

It is a real shame but I think it just wont happen.
I am just happy I was on the last day of service and the only day since in 2013

Jumble

What a shame.

 

[headshot119]

My understanding from a discussion last year with someone high up in LUL and whose statements I would tend to trust.

There is no interest in preserving and running A stock at all.
The main reason being that the 38ts has swallowed about half a million pounds in repairs etc recently and there is no spare money.
The current RATS are not maintained to passenger standard so would need work to bring them up to allow passengers to be carried.
There is a lot of asbestos underneath which was a trade mark of Cravens and means that selling on privately is out of the question


This is also backed up by the fact I understand that the 2 RATS had been actually been booked to be sent to Booths before the decision was made to keep them for another season.
The lack of depot space is in my view a complete red herring and would not be an issue if the will was there.
I imagine it is as my old boss liked to say.
" you have told me it can't be done. If I said i would give you £10,000 personally if you could find a way would you still tell me it was not possible?

It is a real shame but I think it just wont happen.
I am just happy I was on the last day of service and the only day since in 2013

Jumble

That in itself is a red herring, you could easily sell them to a buyer on the condition the asbestos is stripped before onward movement.

 

[90sWereBetter]

NOOOOOOO I love the A stock don't scrap it :cry:

Yes, they should definitely not scrap these units because of this post. Definitely. Grow up, please. :roll:

It's a shame, but they've had their day and it's time to move on. Glad I got a few rides on them in early 2012.

 

[MatthewRead]

Yes, they should definitely not scrap these units because of this post. Definitely. Grow up, please. :roll:

It's a shame, but they've had their day and it's time to move on. Glad I got a few rides on them in early 2012.

What do you mean grow up I'm just being a normal train enthusiast.

 

[class387]

Yes, they should definitely not scrap these units because of this post. Definitely. Grow up, please. :roll:

It's a shame, but they've had their day and it's time to move on. Glad I got a few rides on them in early 2012.

It's lovely how you state how you managed to ride it in 2012. Other people might not have been as fortunate as you. :roll:

 

[bluegoblin7]

It's lovely how you state how you managed to ride it in 2012. Other people might not have been as fortunate as you. :roll:

Maybe not, but their time has past. The practicalities of operating heritage stock on the Underground are getting harder and harder, and there's a rapidly depleting pot of cash available for the day to day service, let alone for jollies.

Let's not forget that in recent years a huge amount of money has been spent on the 1938 stock (its most comprehensive overhaul in years), the 4TC set and Sarah Siddons is also scheduled for an overhaul at some stage. Coupled with the regular steam excursions (which pull in a lot more money and a much larger audience than preserved tube train trips - the aforementioned day in 2013 saw both trains half empty) heritage has never been more alive on LU, but the pot of money isn't infinite and what does run has to be able to cover its costs. Remember, in terms of the Chesham runs in 2017 this also included cancelling the regular service and laying on replacement buses.

If the existing A stock trains hadn't survived due to departmental use we wouldn't be having this discussion. That they have is due to the needs of the main network, now to be replaced by D78 stock units that are extremely heavily modified and not viable to run in service. If the same had happened with the A60s (as has happened to the 1962TS, for instance - arguably a train with a lot more scope for heritage operations) we also would not be having this conversation.

Be pleased that there should yet be chance to experience an A stock on the Met Main, if not on board: for many of us there is no hope at all of ever seeing some stock on the network again (for me, the C stock - again a much more viable option for a preserved sub-surface unit).

 

[Dstock7080]

The RAT season has come to a premature end this year due to a motor defect with 5110. It and spare 5234 are likely to be moved to Ealing Common depot early in the New Year for removal by road.

 

[LiftFan]

Maybe not, but their time has past. The practicalities of operating heritage stock on the Underground are getting harder and harder, and there's a rapidly depleting pot of cash available for the day to day service, let alone for jollies.

Let's not forget that in recent years a huge amount of money has been spent on the 1938 stock (its most comprehensive overhaul in years), the 4TC set and Sarah Siddons is also scheduled for an overhaul at some stage. Coupled with the regular steam excursions (which pull in a lot more money and a much larger audience than preserved tube train trips - the aforementioned day in 2013 saw both trains half empty) heritage has never been more alive on LU, but the pot of money isn't infinite and what does run has to be able to cover its costs. Remember, in terms of the Chesham runs in 2017 this also included cancelling the regular service and laying on replacement buses.

If the existing A stock trains hadn't survived due to departmental use we wouldn't be having this discussion. That they have is due to the needs of the main network, now to be replaced by D78 stock units that are extremely heavily modified and not viable to run in service. If the same had happened with the A60s (as has happened to the 1962TS, for instance - arguably a train with a lot more scope for heritage operations) we also would not be having this conversation.

Be pleased that there should yet be chance to experience an A stock on the Met Main, if not on board: for many of us there is no hope at all of ever seeing some stock on the network again (for me, the C stock - again a much more viable option for a preserved sub-surface unit).

If you want heritage stock on the Underground look no further than the Bakerloo! Those trains are 45 years old now and still running with 5-10 years left in service (probably helped by the excessive amounts of 72 Mk1s out of service and 67s that spares are likely to have been nabbed from)